GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Ben Lessani on 22 September 2010, 23:45
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Hey ho troops,
My silly car is annoying me now and I am fairly confident the rear beam bushes may be a little worn - I shall be testing this/next weekend.
On that note, I don't intend to remove the rear beam when removing/replacing the old bushes as I can't be bothered bleeding the brakes. Which means that replacement needs to be as painless as possible.
Given poly bushes appear to slip in with relative ease, I was going to grab some, but I have a choice (see below).
Any thoughts, personal experiences, recommended ones to get?
eBay "Poly Sport" £30
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOLF-GTI-MK2-CORRADO-REAR-AXLE-BEAM-POLY-SPORT-BUSHES-/120613449786?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c151f303a
Rally Design "Poly Sport" £30
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=533_741_761&products_id=5127
Powerflex £50
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Powerflex-Rear-Beam-Bush-VW-Golf-MK2-PFR85-206-cc-1c-/200512936905?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2eaf809bc9
Euro OEM style £20
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/Volkswagen_Golf_1.8_1986/p/Car-Parts/Suspension-and-Steering/Suspension/Other-Suspension-Parts/?610440165&1&3a6c8c71a036fe341b4509b37643ff43a4ba361f&WISB
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Edit: After fitting the poly bushes
I thought I'd follow up on this. Not the fairest of judgements - as I replaced the front top mounts at the same time, but the rear is a little tighter in the bends and all round, the car is much more stable, nice and grippy again without a hint of understeer. Its very even and composed in the bends, but you can certainly feel the tyre on the road, quite literally, the tread and texture of the road.
The poly bushes were easy to fit, anyone that moans about removing rear beam bushes is a girl (fitting OEM units is probably another story).
I wouldn't recommend them as an alternative to OE bushes, if comfort or quiet driving are on your list of requirements. They don't make the ride any harder, just makes the road grain/imperfections more noticable.
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I think you're a fool not removing the rear beam. It's going to make the job about three times as annoying and tiresome as it would be otherwise. Bleeding brakes isn't exactly a huge chore on a G2.
Don't underestimate the ballache the removing the old bushes will be, either. You're going to need to cut the centres out and then cut through the rather hard outer shell. Once you've done that, with some copper slip, plate steel and a bit of thread bar new OEM bushes should wind in with relative ease, especially if you make sure the seating surface is whistle clean.
Because the OEM bushes probably have more give in them than polybushes I would recommend them, as they should ensure break-away is more progressive and controllable.
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I agree with DH eccentric bushes fair better, plus unless you grease the poly bushes up properly you will find a new squeek after a few months.....
when we say eccentric we mean they are less likley to split all in one go and fall out. They tend to spread a better load on hard impacts and are more controlled, due to the tappered shapes. I think you can get polybushes ones that are ecccentric also!
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doesn't eccentric mean off centre? :grin:
depends what you are after ben, if you want comfort go rubber, is you want performance go poly, simples. all the poly bushes are much of a muchness, personally i use the rally design ones, they come in different hardnesses as well. The bushes usually come with grease so no biggie there
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I think you're a fool not removing the rear beam. It's going to make the job about three times as annoying and tiresome as it would be otherwise. Bleeding brakes isn't exactly a huge chore on a G2.
Noted.
Don't underestimate the ballache the removing the old bushes will be, either. You're going to need to cut the centres out and then cut through the rather hard outer shell. Once you've done that, with some copper slip, plate steel and a bit of thread bar new OEM bushes should wind in with relative ease, especially if you make sure the seating surface is whistle clean.
Yeah, I've seen this method mentioned a lot. Surely its possible to press the entire old bush (metal sleeve included) using a suitable shaped die?
Because the OEM bushes probably have more give in them than polybushes I would recommend them, as they should ensure break-away is more progressive and controllable.
OK doke. Comfort is pretty much non-existent with my nearly 3 yr old eBay special coilovers, so that doesn't bother me. But squeaking and a twitchy rear end does bother me - OEM it is I guess :)
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no need to remove the beam from the struts, but from what i remember you need to undo the union next to the bias valve anyway. Good time for a fluid change?
a big drill bit is the best way to get the rubber out then hacksaw the metal sleeve off
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Yeah, I've seen this method mentioned a lot. Surely its possible to press the entire old bush (metal sleeve included) using a suitable shaped die?
HAHAHA! I take it you've not changed many large, old bushes then? :grin:
It's been there 20 years - it's got a lot of habit to be persuaded out of! The whole outer shell is an interference fit.
I agree with DH eccentric bushes fair better, plus unless you grease the poly bushes up properly you will find a new squeek after a few months
Ummm I was suggesting OEM bushes. :sad:
Eccentric bushes could be used to square up a beam. :undecided:
I don't know whether the OEM ones are eccentric, but when installing them you will need to be careful to get them lined up as specified, or the above could transpire.
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Interesting thread this. Sorry to hijack slightly, other than visual signs of wear is there a way to tell if the bushes are fubbard or not i.e would you be able to feel significant movement in the beam when jacked up?
I asked a similar question on another well known forum and most of the people recommended the sport bushes from Rallysport if that helps at all. Middle ground between comfort and performance.
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you would feel the rear of the car wandering about if they were gone. it gets quite bad when they are proper f**ked!
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Budget for some copper brake lines, unions etc, new fluid and the rubber lines that attach to the beam.
Order the 6 beam bolts (3 either side)
Order the long bolt and nut that goes through the bush. Yours will be fit for the bin!
I would go OEM. They are about £35 each. Pricey yes but I'm all for OEM.
I have had poly bushes in other mk2's but OEM ones are a much better ride. Bumps are absorbed better imo
Used a blow torch to burn them/ metal expand. No cutting needed. Just a large hammer and an extra pair or hands.
Drop the beam. It is very messy and I wouldn't use a blow torch near the fuel lines :lipsrsealed:
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww170/golfgti_photos/11092010050.jpg)
home made press in tool my dad made. Made life easy :cool:
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww170/golfgti_photos/11092010052.jpg)
(http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww170/golfgti_photos/11092010054.jpg)
sowtid :cool:
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I'm going to try my luck and do it in situ - before resorting to removing the beam entirely.
I've got MK4 rear callipers - so they are upside down, making bleeding them a total arse, not to mention I changed the fluid around 6 months ago anyway.
If I fail totally, I can still remove the beam and do it, I don't mind spending a couple of hours trying at least.
I'm going to find some chunky threaded bar :)
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I have mk4 calipers. Used the one man bleed kit and had no problems at all with bleeding?
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I have mk4 calipers. Used the one man bleed kit and had no problems at all with bleeding?
I've got a pre-88, so the handbrake cables only reach with the callipers upside down and left to right ... and you can't bleed callipers with the nipples on top, so they have to be removed and chocked.
After asking for advice, I've ignored all of you and bought some cheap Poly Sport bushes (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400156153064) :D If they are harsh/twitchy, its only £30 and will be very easy to remove and fit. Next up, my front top mounts ...
Many pages of comments from http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site:clubgti.com+poly+sport&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&prmd=iv&ei=t7ubTNGMHZSh4Qbrj9V7&start=0&sa=N seem to give the impression there isn't a vast difference in comfort - especially since the rear shocks I have come with zero comfort as standard.
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you would feel the rear of the car wandering about if they were gone. it gets quite bad when they are proper f**ked!
trust me, you'd know if they were hanging out. mine wandered all over the show. I refused to drive it other than taking for an MOT and associated repairs at our work, as i was constantly correcting the rear wheel steering :shocked:
The original bushes were less than 12 months old., bought from camberly auto factors so likely to be cheap non-branded aftermarket tat. The rubber had broken into 3 chunks. I replaced them with slightly more expensive Febi Bilstein items, they seem great at the moment
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I think you're a fool not removing the rear beam. It's going to make the job about three times as annoying and tiresome as it would be otherwise. Bleeding brakes isn't exactly a huge chore on a G2.
There wasn't even much point bothering in the end, as I couldn't actually see it even being possible due to the short length of the rubber brake hose.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/CIMG7779.jpg)
So it ended up looking like this ... :cry:
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/CIMG7796.jpg)
It wasn't too difficult a job, took about 5 hours all in - but I did make it difficult for myself by not removing the rear shocks before removing the beam! I did a bit of a write-up in my dub project here http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=49436.msg1520093#msg1520093
I'm after new shocks now as my budget coilys have had it!
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Nice one Ben, you did make life harder for yourself, by not dropping the suspension first.
It must have been a pig to get it at the right angle to get them back in? :laugh:
Too much love going on in your thread fella! :wink:
Jay
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:D
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Thats a good little write up. Suspension :grin: but we live and learn
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Bit of a thread hijack, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that Audi A3 bushes can be used? I'm after making my ride comfier, its currently on 40mm lowered suspension, assuming everything on the car is 20years old, what else should I look at changing for maximum difference?
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Bit of a thread hijack, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that Audi A3 bushes can be used? I'm after making my ride comfier, its currently on 40mm lowered suspension, assuming everything on the car is 20years old, what else should I look at changing for maximum difference?
Just fit OEM bushes if you're after comfort - but the general consensus is that your spring/shock set-up will dictate comfort, the bushes become negligible with a poor suspension combination
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Nice work, I shall be using your guide :smiley:
Is the only decent place to put stands for this job on the sills or box section? Try to avoid using them if I can but if the beam is missing there aren't many other options.
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let us know if there's any difference!
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Is the only decent place to put stands for this job on the sills or box section? Try to avoid using them if I can but if the beam is missing there aren't many other options.
You're hard pressed to hold it anywhere else, the rear jacking points are sky high - an axle stand at full extension won't even come close:
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/mini-CIMG7777.jpg)
The chassis legs kind of disappear past the mid point of the car, and I loathe using the sills to support any kind of weight - they just end up deformed!
The contact points for 4 post lifts work pretty well - just as long as you a square piece of wood to spread the weight. They shouldn't get in the way of working on the car at all. Just jack up on the middle of the rear beam (if your car isn't too low). Mines a bit too low to slide a jack under, so I have to jack each side, then support under the rear beam with another jack, then put an axel stand under the rear contact point.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/mini-CIMG7796.jpg)
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/mini-CIMG7799.jpg)
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/mini-CIMG7800.jpg)
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let us know if there's any difference!
Will do! I need to get some brake fluid today - so haven't driven it yet!
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Brake fluid in, went for a drive.
They are MUCH firmer than standard bushes, I wouldn't recommend it! I'm pretty sure I can feel each part of the tyre tread on the road as the wheel moves, its made for a very hard ride (ultimately, when combined with cheap coil overs dropped around 60-70mm).
Did it fix my problem - NOPE! The issue is with a failed rear nearside shock, but at least I've figured out the problem and made my brake pedal firmer :)
I wouldn't recommend them as an alternative to OE bushes.
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:grin: You're like the forum guinea pig.
I have them hot tuning coilovers, woeful aren't they. I have a set of bilstein/febi rear beam bushes to go in mine but I'm loathe to do it in the cld weather.
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I went for the powerflex ones, and I had no problems fitting them apart from getting the old bushes out. I did leave the axle in at first, but the angle of the hacksaw and the tight working conditions convinced me to remove the axle, didn't need to disturb the brake system at all, just manoeuvred the axle out. Copper grease and bushes went in no problems. What can I say the result is? Well rear end feels a lot firmer but still somewhat loose, but I've put it down to hottuning coilovers and the rear suspension mounts being pretty destroyed. Id deffo buy powerflex again though, comfort wise I didn't really notice anything.
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I wouldn't recommend them as an alternative to OE bushes.
My mate runs the same bushes with 40mm drop bilstein suspension and it's fine so suspect your hottunings are the cause of your problems :tongue:
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Buy cheap buy twice.
cheap coilovers; the bane of dub life.
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I wouldn't recommend them as an alternative to OE bushes.
My mate runs the same bushes with 40mm drop bilstein suspension and it's fine so suspect your hottunings are the cause of your problems :tongue:
I don't have Hottunings - I got cheap coilovers before Hottuning existed - which makes me cool :cool:
They don't help, but there is a definitive difference in the quality of the ride, it is much "grittier" now - you can feel the surface of the road through the back of the car. I don't think any suspension would change that, as its not an uneven road surface - its just the road texture that you can literally feel through the arse of your seat!
Buy cheap buy twice.
cheap coilovers; the bane of dub life.
Got mine when they weren't even cheap :cry:
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Ta for the reply and pics.
Ride comfort and the fubbard shock aside, does the car feel stiffer and handle a little better in the corners?
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Hard to say, my tracking is out :laugh:
I'll get it 4 wheel aligned again soon. Its always been confident in the bends - I don't go too mental as I live in the city, not the countryside - so there is limited opportunity for fast cornering.
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Com on Ben buy the Jap coilies it will match your teeth rattling bushes :tongue:
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Com on Ben buy the Jap coilies it will match your teeth rattling bushes :tongue:
You buy them for me and I'll consider it :)
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LOL!!!! :grin:
Where's the love man........?
I've got a set of OEM rallye spec suspension doing nothing, but the front would only fit teh MK2 the rears are completely different (shorter) Not sure if you can swap the inneards from the rear like springs dampers seals to fix yours?
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Its new suspension for the golf ... or this http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59936 :evil: (and the golf goes into a dark garage stored away)
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mmmmm you did read the coolant loss part yeah?
Bollocks check that head gasket out before you even part cash.
All in all I like it, but I'm worried about...... would it fit your image as a car butcher? :laugh:
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mmmmm you did read the coolant loss part yeah?
nuts check that head gasket out before you even part cash.
All in all I like it, but I'm worried about...... would it fit your image as a car butcher? :laugh:
Yeah I spotted that, its a highe-ish mileage engine, but nothing really to worry about, if its a hose, its cheap, if its a head gasket, its slightly less cheap, but nothing too difficult.
Fitting a stonking turbo on it and hiding it from the insurance is the tricky part :evil:
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Yeah lead in the rear bumper, and a rear roof rack might come in handy to keep that back end tight!
Ben you should buy my Atlas Gti 16V three door :grin:
:cool:
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Ta for the reply and pics.
Ride comfort and the fubbard shock aside, does the car feel stiffer and handle a little better in the corners?
Ever had the back end jump around at roundabouts with dips/potholes?
Replacing them will get rid of that. No more crashing over bumps and less road noise than before with my OEM ones. Expensive but well worth it. You dont want to change these twice so do it once!
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I thought I'd follow up on this. Not the fairest of judgements - as I replaced the front top mounts at the same time, but the rear is a little tighter in the bends and all round, the car is much more stable, nice and grippy again without a hint of understeer. Its very even and composed in the bends, but you can certainly feel the tyre on the road, quite literally, the tread and texture of the road.
The poly bushes were easy to fit, anyone that moans about removing rear beam bushes is a girl (fitting OEM units is probably another story).