GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: 83GTI-DS on 22 January 2005, 10:33
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Hi again :)
I was wondering what exactly are the external differences between a normal GTI and an MK-2, aside from the red border, and any badges that may or may not be on the car? Also - I heard from someone that certain models that were non-GTI came with the red bordered grill as a default... Having trouble believing that, and wanted someone to comment on that if possible - he was specifically referring to his own car, which was manufactured (I think) one year after the "sky" model.
I know some people may switch parts on their plain MK-2 and make it look like a GTI, but still interested in learning more about the external characteristics of the MK-2 / GTI.
For example, could anyone look at this car and say if it's a 1987 MK-2, or if it's a 1987 MK-2 GTI?
(http://www.car4sale.co.il/images/UserPictures/111.JPG)
Thanks in advance for your help!
Adi.
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that looks like a mk1 GTi with a mk2 front grille to me? :laugh:
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That's definately a badly modded Mk1.
Mk1's and Mk2's all had their front indicators in the bumper.
The side repeaters are in a bad place, on golfs they are usually behind the front wheel arch.
The bumper is horrid, the side skirts discusting and so on.
Those do look like Mk1 9 spoke alloys though.
But the seats don't look original, neither does the grille or the wings.
Whoever did that needs to be punished.
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:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
How is that possible, though? Where was an MK-1 made in 87?
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Where do you live mate? It could be that it was registered in your country in 87 but was made a few years earlier?
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whatever you do, make sure the first thing you do is chuck a can of petrol and a match at that 'thing'!!! looks like a complete horror story to me, whats going on with those extra indicators carved into the wings?
but in answer to your question, there isn't alot to tell one golf from another if the owner wants to make it look like a gti. short of opening the bonnet!!! there are all sorts of things you can take off or add on to make any model look like any other model.
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I live in Israel.
A lot of those older VWs are imports (so the manufacturing year is the same as the registration year), but generally I haven't heard of or seen an 87 Mk-1 in Israel - ever. I've seen a 1984 MK1 here once, but the registration being one year later is understandable... 4 years though? What did they do with the car for that long before registering it ?:tongue: ?
This car is being sold as a "1987 Golf" here, 3rd owner, around 122,000 miles. The price is lower than what you would expect for a GTI of that year around here, but he did specify the engine to be a 1.8L... This is why I wanted your opinion - is this a GTI or not?
I could take care of the bumper and the side skirts if I buy this car - but the only way I'm buying it is if it's a GTI ?:grin: - regarding the extra indicators though, that's a bit of a problem.
Could anyone point me in a good resource, or list the general differences in the exterior of a GTI and a non GTI car? In this case, I guess we're talking about an MK-1 (somehow), so what would generally be the differences? Also, can anyone point out the same differences between an MK-2 and the MK-2 GTI?
Thanks again for all the help.
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i think you will be able to tell if its a gti when you test drive it :grin:
if they are that rare over in israel you could get it and get some new wings and a real grille and bumper to sort it out looks wise, dunno if you will have to import them :huh: and burn the sideskirts :evil:
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They aren't THAT rare, but they're very rare for that price... Then again there's definitely some work to be done on this car if I do get it, as you all unanimously agreed :grin:
The only way I'm getting it is probably if it's in a VERY good condition mechanically... Guess we'll see soon.
Thanks for the tips!
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Its definitely a mk1 based car, probably one of those south african jobbies.
the main difference between the gti and non gti's in mk2 form was the red stripe and 4 grill lights.
however Drivers came with the 4 grill lights though, so it wasn't exclusive. the red stripe I'm fairly sure was exclusive though.
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My 1.3 Mk2 came with a red stripe on its grill, and was previously owned by 2 old ladies so I doubt they'd have added one :P
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i could be wrong. so many golfs have been messed around with its not easy to tell anymore.
plus, one of the little old ladies could of smacked it into something and had the gril replaced.
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plus, one of the little old ladies could of smacked it into something and had the gril replaced.
true, and mine (was) badged up with dodgey vinyl as a "country", maybe it was a dealership thing?
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because all the parts can be swapped around and usually do end up on the wrong cars it's very difficult to tell if it's a gti. because of this I'll try and say which parts came on the cars when they were born.
4 light grill, like someone said before. None of the Gti's were born with twin lights.
n/s wing mounted ariel. 16v's had this relocated to the roof (and both my 8v's did too). All the rest of the mk2s had theirs on the wing
big bumpers. the last batch of mk2's had big bumpers, but the gti's had a deeper spliter compared to the drivers big bumpers.
drivers with big bumpers didn't have fog lights on the front. the hole was filled in.
the engine obviously. only the gtis had injection. the last run of drivers and syncros had 1.8 carb engines. 88 on onward 8v's had digipants injection. the 16v retained the k-jet setup until the mk3 arrived.
the 1.3's had 4 speed gearboxes. all the rest had 5 speed.
Black plastic arches. All GTi's came with them aswell as the last run of Drivers.
90 spec mk2s with big bumpers had extra skirts attached to the sils.
only g60 mk2s had g60 arches - funny that :wink:
gti's had more 'sporty' seats which held you in round the corners.
all gti's had rear discs.
88 and onward 16v's had 256mm front discs compared to 239mm ones on the 8v.
Rear spoiler. All GTi's. Quite often removed for that euro look.
twin exit exhausts. only the gtis had them.
various gtis came with half smoked rear lights. mostly 16vs iirc.
the last run of mk2s came with 15" BBS and PAS as standard
Did I miss anything? :grin:
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The Mk1 GX had many of the GTI features, eg interior, dash clocks, possibly even the front lip, but had a 1.5l engine.
It could have a 1.8 carb engine, but that was only available in the Mk2 as far as I know (I had a 1.8 carb Mk2 GL), although it could be a transplant.
The mk1 Driver had a 1.3l engine, but the looks were pretty much the same as a GTI.
The way to tell if the engine is a GTI engine, is to look for the air box. If there is no air box, then it's just a carbed engine (unless someone's fitted weber carbs).
The Mk1 GTI engines had the air box to the right hand side of the engine bay next to the battery, where as the Mk2 (and Mk3) GTI engines had the air box to the left.
Here's a Mk2 16v engine: (note the manifold on the top of the engine saying DOHC 16v)
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=90&pos=1
Here's a Mk2 8v engine: (note airbox on the left)
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=327&pos=2
Here's a standard Mk1 1.8 GTI engine: (note the air box next to the battery)
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=254&pos=7
If the mechanics are good and the structure and bodywork are sound, and the price was right (leaving you enough to put it back to standard), then maybe it would be worth it.
I think those wings are going to be a problem, the grille and bonnet would be fairly easy to source, the plastic body kit would hopefully come off easily.
That grille actually looks like it's a Mk2 grille squeezed into place and adapted to have those extra indicators.
The bumper looks like it's (dare I say) from a fiesta.
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the 1.3's had 4 speed gearboxes. all the rest had 5 speed.
Some 1.3's had 5 speed gearboxes. I think it was the 90 spec ones?
If it is an 87 car then surely it would have the smaller rubbing strips on the side, and also as its a GTI would have the red stripes on the rubbing strips?
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whatever, if he's made that big a bodge on the exterior there is every chance that it'll be f**ked everywhere else. in my opinion! to rectify all the crap thats on that car would all add up. bear that in mind when you think of it as being cheap, it al adds up and i'd rather wait and buy a proper well maintained golf that buy a shed and try to turn it into a decent car. the old saying, "you can't polish a turd" springs to mind!
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n/s wing mounted ariel. 16v's had this relocated to the roof (and both my 8v's did too). All the rest of the mk2s had theirs on the wing
16vs had a rubber blanking grommet on the wing.
however, only 16vs came with a beesting. 8vs never had them and were only added as aftermarket items.
half smoked rear lights only came on the campaign mk2, and later spec'd 16vs. along with the campaign colours and tri-stripe interior.
you did miss the placement of the badges, and the style of the VOLKSWAGEN and GOLF badges.
early pre 88 cars had VOLKSWAGEN on rear on the left hand side in caps. The Golf name tag was also in caps on the right. the later 88 cars had a VW badge in the middle, and an Italic Golf on the right. You can also spot the accident damage cars as when the pre 88 cars had rolled of the assembly line the rear panel was always the later 88 panel with the center badge. another damage repair bodge was to put the 16v badge on the rear in the wrong place! it should be on the right hand side of the GolfGTI name tag.
and if you want to get really dull, don't forget the side mouldings changed 3 times (at least). pre 88 cars had the GTI badge where the indicator went on the later cars on the front wing.
i can't think of any more external changes for the moment.
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I didn't miss the placement of the badges as all the golfs badges changed at the same time and the original question was the identifiers of the gti. :grin:
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chill :wink:
the wink icon looks more like a smiley with something in their eye.
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hes chilled, your wrong.....again :laugh:
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oh i just thought of another thing thats not so easily changed about. on gti's the rear valance has the larger cut out, on non-gti's with single tailpipes it has the smaller cut out. what sort of tailpipe did drivers/gls have?
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^^ good call joe, thats probably the best way to tell. drivers had the single cut out :tongue:
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woo-hoo! i knew i knew something!
how sad is it though that i thought of it while driving around at work!
"hey i cant wait to get home so i can post what i've just remembered!" LOSER!!!
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:grin:
anyway looking at the picture he wants identifiers for a mk1 i think :huh:
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true, or how to find the crappest golf that looks like a fiesta and how to turn it into a decent car!
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oh i just thought of another thing thats not so easily changed about. on gti's the rear valance has the larger cut out, on non-gti's with single tailpipes it has the smaller cut out.? what sort of tailpipe did drivers/gls have?
dizzie already mentioned that.
minus 10 points
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oh. he obviously didn't say it loud enough!!!!!
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true, or how to find the crappest golf that looks like a fiesta and how to turn it into a decent car!
I deserve that :rolleyes:
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How is he cutout different? Do you mean where the exhaust comes out? On my 1.3 i swear its the same as the GTI's?? :huh:
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shouldn't be, the gti has a larger cut out to accomodate the twin tailpipes. the pressing is there on lower spec cars and i suppose yours could have been cut. i'm talking about the metal valance you know?
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I see... I thought it was the same as its like twice as wide as it needs to be for a single pipe :huh:
I#ll see if i can find a pic.................
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Ok, so this actually shows the cutout on the bumper, not the valance, but its the same size..... Will keep searching for a pic.....
(http://thedubcompany.co.uk/_photos/members-motors/15/1413.jpg)
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Looks like you were right :wink:
(http://thedubcompany.co.uk/_photos/members-motors/15/1405.jpg)
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the only real givaway is wether it has rear brake discs or not! only gti's had them on the rears although some people may have discs on a lookalike but its alot of hassel and people dont bother!