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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Neo Badness on 25 August 2010, 00:18
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An original turbo technics setup has become available, ie low comp engine block and cylinder head. Piggy back ecu manifolds and turbo + gubbins. All based on the KR engine which is what I have in mine at the mo.
My dilemma is, do I go all out and buy this setup, fit it instead of the ABF I have sitting in the garage?
I reckon the ABF *should be less stress but turbo technics golfs aren't that common. They'll both make around 180bhp just in different ways.
Plus what would be a fair price to pay for a said setup? I was thinking in the region of 4 to 5bricks if it is in as good condition as vendor says.
Cheers folks :smiley:
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I cant help with the techi info... :lipsrsealed:
But if its what you want..
Then pay what you think it's worth...
If its on the bay them no doubt some idiot will pay some stupid money for it...
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Buy it, and use parts from it to make a turbo ABF :laugh:
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Can you be arsed with the hassle of it? I know i'd much rather put the ABF in...
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for scene points go for the turbo technics. but i wouldn't pay good money for a 2nd hand turbo converted motor.
id rather spens twice as much building it myself so it's a known quantity to me. and i think you'd find the tt16v a bit of a disapointment as by current stanardars a 1980's garret T25 is a bit of a crap turbo. it's small so it cant puff very hard and there an old desing so there very laggy compared to newer ones, iirc they'll puff to around 200 bhp but i bet you chould get a turbo from scrappy now that would spool up sooner and blow enough for 250 possobly 300 bhp
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haha, yeah probably more hassle than it's worth. If I had a spare car to throw it in then it'd be great. But I've always fancied a ABF s/c :grin: But alas I lack the mechanical skills to make it reality.
For now at least.
Vendor said that it had been upgraded to a T28?
Think it'd be sweet but the microwave, cooker and washing machine have all decided to die within about an hour of each of other. So there goes the budget :angry:
Cheers for the replies though :smiley:
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s/c is where i wanna go too :evil: pretty pointless i think spedning loads and getting a lilttle bit more than an abf, could spend some more and get the abf megasquirted to get 175bhp before any other mods !
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Abf is still the better choice.
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Abf is still the better choice.
I think i agree for a daily.
s/c is where i wanna go too :evil: pretty pointless i think spedning loads and getting a lilttle bit more than an abf, could spend some more and get the abf megasquirted to get 175bhp before any other mods !
I understand that stock ABF have been R/r'd at more than 150bhp. As a general rule VW tended to underestimate the power made. Filter and exhaust on an otherwise stock engine have seen decent figures. Theres a guy on another forum who has this setup and got 179.8bhp on pretty reliable rollers. :smiley:
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The torque would be different on the ms, as with the abf's what ive seen from them, not that many but there torque figures always seem to be below 150lb but still have high bhp, ms will hopefully boost my torque up to around 160lb and put it up around 15lb across the whole rev range. in a race situation there about the same apparently, but the ms would be a much better driving in road situations by having torque everywhere rather than just right up at boiling point. If you could do your own mapping, which hopefully ill figure out if not then id be a lot out of pocket :cry:, i think it'll be a very good mod seem as though you wanted the turbo aswellwhich would of given you better driveability ?
that does sound alot though, 30bhp from exhaust and filter?
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The torque would be different on the ms, as with the abf's what ive seen from them, not that many but there torque figures always seem to be below 150lb but still have high bhp, ms will hopefully boost my torque up to around 160lb and put it up around 15lb across the whole rev range. in a race situation there about the same apparently, but the ms would be a much better driving in road situations by having torque everywhere rather than just right up at boiling point.
sorry, but thats all pish.
Megasquirt is only ever going to be as good as the person mapping it, so saying you'll have this and that figure is impossible. Using a chip in the standard ecu is just as good, you just dont have the on the spot adjustability that you would get with megasquirt.
And you will never be able to map properly without access to many £££ and hours on the dyno.
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I did say hopefully and its hardly impossible if the man maybe remapping my ecu has got a few abf's and 9a's too this figure, all the ones the mans does ( whos building my ecu) have got around the 175bhp mark with 160lb and he's done quite a few. So it aint all pish.
Its not exactly just as good though is it, if a mapper can get 175bhp and 160lb out of megasquirt, i doubt people would get megasquirt if you could put a chip a digi mk2 and get it just as good as megasquirt. I highly doubt ill be able to get 175bhp mapping it myself as truthly i rekon i will end up taken it to the likes of rtech or the man whos building my ecu for me. road remap and couple of hours of dyno time.
I think its all pish when people think putting 4-1, exhaust and filters on and saying they have 180bhp, they may have but i doubt there torque figures are very high and drive like sh!t, having to get right up to the top of the rev range to get to their torque.
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Lets be honest though, all petrol torque is sh!t. You want torque get a V8+ or even better a diesel. :smiley:
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Lets be honest though, all petrol torque is sh!t. You want torque get a V8+ or even better a diesel. :smiley:
What about a diesel v8? :evil:
depends a lot on your driving style i think. I used to be all about the 8v's but now I love the screaming
16v's. My old Mk3 was quick for a tug boat, at least 29knots with a good tail wind :smiley:
seriously though I'm keeping it simple, stock management. k&n with heat shield, 4branch heat wrapped, 2.25in Magnex. If I get really carried away I might take all the tool boxes out of it. :grin:
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Did i mention that i have the original mk2 stealth racing with turbo technics turbo demo car? AND ITS AWESOME! :drool:
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I think its all pish when people think putting 4-1, exhaust and filters on and saying they have 180bhp, they may have but i doubt there torque figures are very high and drive like sh!t
Nope. DannyP's dyno'ed at +170bhp with a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold and mine feels very similar with a similar set of tubes down the back. Both pull like a train from the get go.
Digi 3.2 also has dual knock sensors etc, so it has excellent control over the ignition.
You think a few hours on a dyno is as good as the heaps of dev time that must have gone into the Digi 3.2 on the ABF? Really?
FWIW I'd go for the ABF every time - less to go wrong and you'll have a whole load of learning the car to do with that much power.
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Right, this may sound like a bit of a dumb question but here it goes,
Are all t25 turbos the same? Say there is a t25 in a citroen and in a toyota they will be the same unit after all the aditional sh!te has been removed???
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nope
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My mk1 ABF is an absolute killer. It has a 4-1 manifold, but that goes into a stock mk1 1.6 diesel exhaust - possibly the most restrictive VAG exhaust available? Still goes like stink though, especially for a rusty old pickup :grin:
Megasquirt will be ordered next month... and Toyota Silvertop 20v AE101 ITB's fitted with it in due course. I look forward to fiddling with the maps for hours on end, but it will be a shame to get rid of the Digifant 3.2 which runs reliably and faultlessly under all conditions.
Anyway... I still reckon you should buy the Turbo setup, and fit it with an ABF bottom end, just for the hell of it :laugh:
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nope
awesome!
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I think its all pish when people think putting 4-1, exhaust and filters on and saying they have 180bhp, they may have but i doubt there torque figures are very high and drive like sh!t
Nope. DannyP's dyno'ed at +170bhp with a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold and mine feels very similar with a similar set of tubes down the back. Both pull like a train from the get go.
Digi 3.2 also has dual knock sensors etc, so it has excellent control over the ignition.
You think a few hours on a dyno is as good as the heaps of dev time that must have gone into the Digi 3.2 on the ABF? Really?
FWIW I'd go for the ABF every time - less to go wrong and you'll have a whole load of learning the car to do with that much power.
Yer maybe loads of dev did go into the digi 3, but then how can a few hours on a dyno from megasquirt get it running more torques and bhp?
Just saying as quite a few people was saying not to go digi and just go megasquirt ? So megasquirt must be better if everyone who said to me about getting my fuelling sorted to go after market ecu.
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I think its all pish when people think putting 4-1, exhaust and filters on and saying they have 180bhp, they may have but i doubt there torque figures are very high and drive like sh!t
Nope. DannyP's dyno'ed at +170bhp with a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold and mine feels very similar with a similar set of tubes down the back. Both pull like a train from the get go.
Digi 3.2 also has dual knock sensors etc, so it has excellent control over the ignition.
You think a few hours on a dyno is as good as the heaps of dev time that must have gone into the Digi 3.2 on the ABF? Really?
FWIW I'd go for the ABF every time - less to go wrong and you'll have a whole load of learning the car to do with that much power.
Yer maybe loads of dev did go into the digi 3, but then how can a few hours on a dyno from megasquirt get it running more torques and bhp?
Just saying as quite a few people was saying not to go digi and just go megasquirt ? So megasquirt must be better if everyone who said to me about getting my fuelling sorted to go after market ecu.
define ' a few' hours. Its all well and good making good power at full throttle, but what about the rest of the map and its driveability day to day? Its going to take more than a few hours to visit every load site on the fuel / ignition map to get a setup thats going to perform well under all conditions imo.
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Had two quotes rtech said 3-4 but then said in another one 5-6, or person im getting it from does a road session then a tweak on the dyno, guess ill just have to find out when its all done how good the drive ability is, had one of his customers say that he's over the moon with it. He may do it all the time so its just easy for him to feel what the cars doing.
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Try an ABF on Digi 3.2 first. £10 says the people raving about the MS were running K-Jet before.
Megasquirt will be ordered next month... and Toyota Silvertop 20v AE101 ITB's fitted with it in due course.
That doesn't sound cheap.
It does sound interesting though. Are you putting knock on it, too?
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I've listened/ read alot about Digi 3.2 vs K-jet vs standalone it and I reckon Digi is the best of all worlds for my application
It'll be a daily so can't pee fuel.
But it's nice to have the rage there if need be.
Unfortunately I don't know anyone with an ABF'd mk2 for a passenger ride so hopefully I'll have made the right choice. Hoping to keep up with my mates Mk2 VR, but that maybe optimistic... :grin:
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Wish i had gone the digi 3.2 route actually lol seems much more simpler! ohwell.
Youd have the vr out of bends etc person round my way with his 9a hed loose his mates vr for a bit but when 6 cylinders came him after about 80mph he'd start to catch up.!
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Youd have the vr out of bends etc person round my way with his 9a hed loose his mates vr for a bit but when 6 cylinders came him after about 80mph he'd start to catch up.!
:grin: I've agreed to a Quarter mile at Crail when they're both done, he's gone all out cleaned bay, wide track etc. I, on the other hand, am going budget. ABF, 280mm discs/ narrow track. Think I'm going to get monstered :grin:
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If he got a cleaned out bay you don't stand a chance :grin: you'll only be like 20bhp short of him though wouldn't ya? Presuming your gonna have about 170bhp, I reckon it'd be quite close!
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If he got a cleaned out bay you don't stand a chance :grin: you'll only be like 20bhp short of him though wouldn't ya? Presuming your gonna have about 170bhp, I reckon it'd be quite close!
Should be interesting all the same, I hear what you're saying about the cleaned bay adding like 20bhp across the rev range :wink:
Going to invest in some decent tyres, maybe even take the toolboxes/ jack/ spare parts out of the boot. Sure he'd be gutted if I won though. He used to have a full Tdi setup but binned it for a VR when he got beaten by a mk2Vr. Would hate him to have to rip it out for an ABF :grin:
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Lose as MUCH weight as possible - it's your best hope of not getting made a fool of.
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Lose as MUCH weight as possible - it's your best hope of not getting made a fool of.
Fair point, think that's kind of enevitable as found out last night he's got a 2.9, not a 2.8 :shocked: I'll get mullered in a straight line I reckon. Will most likely have to wait till Knockhill and take my commitment pills prior to going round :smiley:
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Megasquirt will be ordered next month... and Toyota Silvertop 20v AE101 ITB's fitted with it in due course.
That doesn't sound cheap.
It does sound interesting though. Are you putting knock on it, too?
Got hold of the bodies with manifold, injectors and gubbins for £110. Bore spacing is only 0.5mm off VW, so hopefully I'll be able to make up a thick adaptor plate for the stud pattern, and use the Toyota manifold... although I still haven't got round to holding the manifold up to a bare head to compare closely. Would be great to negate the need for a custom manifold tho. Also, the 'yota manifold has all sorts of vacuums coming off it, evenly distributed over all 4 ports - so a brake servo doesn't have to unbalance number 4.
I won't be putting knock on it, because then it won't be cheap :grin: (unless a cheap workable solution presents itself to me!)