GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: lostsurferinbc on 03 August 2010, 03:52
-
hello from canada!
I just currently got my hands on a bunch of abf parts that will be going on an aba block
abf head with intake and exhaust, pistons, rods, oil pump, drive gear, block off plate and cast aluminium pan.
my question is knowing that the abf injectors and rail will only run on digi 3, how do i get this set up to work in an mk2? can i somehow convert my car to digi 3 with harness and ecu? or will digi 2 injectors fit in an abf head?
How do you get an abf to run in a mk2
pics of car
1989 trophy edition jetta 2.0l cis 16v
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/34886_10150222390505114_897805113_1.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/P7101696.jpg)
-
Is the ABA not a 8v if so, I don't think the ABF head will fit.
-
yeah it will all fit ABA block is basically the same as an ABF, just internals are 8v rather than 16v. looks like you have everything you need there! what I would do if i were you, is buy a complete anf wiring loom and ecu. there arnt many ABF MK2s in the US, so it would be something a bit different :)
the alternative is to wire up the injectors to batch fire as per the mk2 digi. The ABF injectors can be fired indivdually by the ecu, hence the multi pin plug. if you join the 4 separate injector earth wires together it'll work just like a digi2 fuel injector setup. Then I think the norm for 16v digi swaps in the us is to use a digi 1 ecu and have it remapped, as the digi 2 ecu is pretty locked down in comparison. The digi 3 option is way better though :)
trouble is your car has CE1 electrics, so you'll need to do a little wire splicing. its not too hard though, plenty of information around to do it and if you get the wiring diagrams you can basically wire it up as per digifant 2 mk2. only issue is the MK2 ecu relay needs plug R, which wont be there on your fusebox. in this case what i do is get a VAG relay holder clipped above the fusebox, then plug in the factory abf 30 relay and run the wires to it as per the diagrams
for the exhaust your downpipe should bolt right up to the abf manifold, then you can keep the factory mk2 cat. just replace the lambda sensor with a new one, it'll be the same as the stock US MK3 ABA lambda I believe :)
If not, the universal bosch lambda you need is:
Universal 4 wire - 0 258 986 506 (LS06) - 12 watt heater and grounded case
-
if i swap over to digi 3 will that intail redoing the whole cars harness, or just the engine managment harness? I was going to swap the whole car to ce2 anyway because i was going to go the aba 16vt, but then the abf stuff kinda came up for sale, so i figured a mk2 abf here in north america would be a little more unique. If anyone has some mk2 abf swap links would be a great help :smiley: also after ive swapped over to ce2 is swapping to digi 3 plug and play? or will it intail a bunch of wire sorting and soldering? one more question :grin: (sorry if im getting annoying just pretty exited about this) ill be able to get the abf wiring harness but I need a abf distributer, wheres the best place to buy one
cheers jay
-
you can do it either way, splice the CE1 plugs to the abf loom or swap whole car to CE2. If it was me I'd swap car to CE2, but thats because I have a wire fetish and CE2 is the better system. main advantage is all the wiring is modular, rather than it being bundled up in massive multi plugs. so if you have a burnt or damaged wire on 1 part of the loom its much easier to replace that section, rather than having to drag out half the car loom with it!
if you go ce2 you need to change the fusebox hanger and the outer steering column tube, plus some bits in engine bay like indicators and horn need swappign as plug ends are different. the abf loom will pretty much plug straight in, though a couple bits on the abfd loom arnt quite the same, on the rhd looms the wiper loom and mfa bits arnt quite right, but can either add length as required or remove all the loom tape and then swap in mk2 wiring for the bits that differ. other thing is on the mk2 the main battery live & earth are in the lighting loom, on the mk3 they're in the engine loom. can either just not use the mk2 battery wires or again open the mk3 loom and remove the battery wires. the mk3 engine loom has a few earths spliced into the battery -ve wire, though many of them can be binned. then whats left just run to the battery.
also the mk3 rev counter signal doesnt work with mk2 clocks, so i convert them to use the mk2 coil. plus this also means you can bin the mk3 coil which is unreliable. to make the mk2 coil stuff work you need the MK2 coil->tci loom, chop the mk3 coil plug off and splice the red/green wire to pin 6 of the tci unit, then wire the rest in as per factory. just need an ign live to the +ve side of coil, and run your rev counter wire to the -ve side. basically wire up the tci & coil exactly the same as it is on a mk2 gti with the digifant engine :)
abf dizzy i dont think there are any engines in the us with one fitted, so its going to have to be sourced from Europe or Japan. get it from the same guy you get the abf loom and ecu from.
here's a ce1 and ce2 wiring diagram for the mk2 coil, hopefully that'll help you.
http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/coilwiringce1.png
http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/coilwiringce2.png
-
not to familiar with UK lingo :sad:
UK, loom = Canada, Harness
outer steering column = ? (my guess ignition where the key goes in)
Tci unit = ? (my guess, ignition module- small black box that sits on top of ecu cage like the digi 2 set up)
would be great if some could clear this up, so far i understand everything else and doesnt seem to overly complicated once i have my car running on ce2.
the only thing is that the guy i bought the stuff from sold the dizzy :angry: so if someone has info where i can buy a used one from the uk would be an awesome help, google and ebay are coming up with nothing
-
well after abit of more research on the mysterious abf (to us north americans lol) a few guys have retro fitted bosch injectors by adding green O rings to the injectors on a 1.8t with no leaks. Any thoughts on this?
-
outer steering column tube = black metal bit bolted to dash where the steering column fits into and the ign lock bolts on
tci unit = 7 pin metal thingy bolted to the top of the ecu bracket
to get another just a case of keeping watch on ebay, they come up time to time :)
a mate of mine got std type injectors in by splitting the injector rail in half, the bottom half was bolted to the inlet as std then the std bosh type injectors fit right in. You would still have the issue of getting the fuel rail in, so you might as well use a MK2 16v inlet with the conversion kits you can get over there?
didnt you get the oem abf injectors with the inlet anyway, you can just use them :)
-
if you need some ABF parts drop me a pm
got lots of bits from dissembled motors in the shed
-
will a 2.0l 16v dizzy fit in an abf head or is it a completly different part, besides being a single window? why im asking is i know you can mod a 16v dizzy with an 8v aba dizzy to make a 16v single window dizzy.
-
if you need some ABF parts drop me a pm
got lots of bits from dissembled motors in the shed
my windows live is down, would you be able to e-mail me a price for distributor?
-
yes a 1.8 16v kr/pl or 2.0 16v 9a dizzy will fit the abf head. the trouble is it has slotted holes in it so you would have to get the alignment exactly right in order to get it in the right spot. as you say its a 4 window dizzy, but if an abf single window trigger wheel fits in it then that should work just fine, just as above need to get the dizzy alignment right otherwise the engine will run poorly
-
i when i went to grab all my parts from the guy i bought the stuff from, he ended up giving me the dizzy as the other guy who wanted it had no cash:
pics of what i got:
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7817.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7818.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7819.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7820.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7821.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7445.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7437.jpg)
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7446.jpg)
i noticed when i ripped out the wiring loom, it came in 2 peices. Im i right by assuming one is for the lights. Also i grabbed the 2 knock sensors as well, but was curious if the ABA sensors work with the digi 3 set up? like the crank sensor
-
yeah the loom with the yellow plugs on is for the lighting on the mk3, so can be binned. the lighting loom also has the mk3 fan controller on it, but I dont bother fitting it I just leave the stock mk2 rad fan wiring, plus the radiator etc.
you just need the one with the white plugs, which has the ecu plug on it too. ABA knock and crank sensors will work on the ABF, as will the lambda probe. does the ABA use 2 knock sensors then? its just the 2nd ABF knock sensor wire is much shorter, but it doesnt really matter the longer wire one will still work it'll just not be as neat.
Looking at the pics I think you have everything there you need, except the airbox. If you can find one a MK2 diesel airbox works well, or SPI if you ever got them in the states. with these you have to mount the inlet air temp somewhere and fit a breather filter on your ISV. On my abf I just chucked the inlet air temp sensor in the front of the airbox temporarily, in the long term I was planning to chop a hole and plastic weld a flange cut off a coolant flange. But I ended up getting a SEAT ABF airbox instead, which is the best OEM fit. Trouble is finding one! You could put an induction cone on it, some will come with a hole for the inlet temp sensor.
I wouldn't bother fitting the alloy sump if the car is low, the steel sump will still fit and will bend rather than shatter if you knock it on something
edit: oh and the 2 pin sensor in the plastic flange on the head is for the aircon, you can fit a later mk2 16v flange without a sensor in it unless you have a/c. the 2 pin white sensor screwed into the side of the head is for the ecu.
Oh actually, I cant see the crank pulley? the 8v one isnt right for the ABF due to the crank timing belt sprocket being wider. You can buy these from certain sites, or you could modify the MK3 one I think
-
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7819.jpg)
Is that a VW exhaust manifold, or an aftermarket item?
-
thanks for the info, i also found a pdf manual online for the abf, im not to sure if its a bentley or not. i know bahn brenner motor sport sells a modified mk3 aba pulley, for our version of the abf which is basically a aba bottom end, 2.0l 16v head. from there you can go boost by using aba crank and rods, then use the 9a pistons, and a head spacer which gives the 8:1 compression, or buy abf spec pistons and rods for the 10.5:1 cr add some cam and u got yourself an abf speb motor. I went with a true abf because its not common here so i like the uniqueness and it will go with my oem+ theme im going with.
i pretty sure that is an oem exhaust from the abf (correct me if im wrong) the parts came from a 94 gti (saves me pissing around with the immobilizer box)
I would like to do some head work. what are my options and limitations? ive heard .5mm bigger valves, bigger cams, i would like to raise the cr to 12.5:1. Possible???
-
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd302/lostsurferinbc/IMG_7819.jpg)
Oh that's rather spanky isn't it?
I'm guessing that's OEM and something we didn't get because our cars have a steering column in the way.
Was it a Golf3 GTI or one of the incredibly late US spec Golf2s?
-
yeah standard MK3 ABF LHD manifold, few on ebay.de:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Golf-3-ABF-2-0l-16V-110kw-150-PS-Motor-/220654660549
http://cgi.ebay.de/Abgaskrummer-VW-warscheinlich-2-0-16V-MKB-ABF-/320576230511
http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-Golf-3-GTI-ABF-Krummer-Abgaskrummer-Facherkrummer-/200507274597
part number 037 253 031 bk, around £280+VAT
some nice big pictures:
http://www.motor-talk.de/blogs/kinixys/-guess-who-s-back-oder-jaeger-und-sammler-2-0-t2455398.html
-
thats not fair! damn rhd
-
Completely irrelevent comment I know, but your Jetta looks frigging awesome fella :cool:
-
Does anyone have any close up pictures of a ce1 loom intergrated into the abf loom? I know I should be switching to ce2, but in my stubborness ive decided to keep the car ce1 :rolleyes:. I have dannyp's and rubjonny info already, but for me pictures help me wrap my head around things easier
cheers :smiley:
-
i've got a ce2 loom here that i've got to replug to ce1 at some point this week if i rember and get chance i'll take some piccys when doing it
-
sweet! that would be awesome :smiley:
-
Hey guys,
Ive just plunked in an ABF from a LHD car with the whole manifold and stuff.It does not hinder or touches the steering rack.Mine is a UK import RHD 1990 mk2.
The power is ok.Felt the digifant mk2 system quicker or responsive maybe due to having an airflow meter.Now its a mk3 digifant 3.2 mated to CE2 mk2 digifant 2 wiring.Need to sort out the mk2 revs.
Mr Jonny,I have used the mk3 coils.Where do I get the feed to the rev counter please.Many thanks.
Cheers
-
open the side of the coil, iirc theres a little flap you can open. then you should see some terminals inside, put your wire to the -ve one :)
-
Many thanks mate
-
we're having an abf clone hood (bonnet) clearance discussion on vortex. Does the abf have the same hood clearance issues in a mk2 like the aba 2.0l's where you have to cut some of the hood structure out or use a specail motor mount?
-
I dont think theres any cutting of the 'hood' mate
-
As long as your engine mounts are in good condition, all that is needed is to file a little off the top of the throttle body - where the two vacuum lines connect. No need to make any adjustments to the bonnet.
-
is there a difference between an abf tb and a 9a tb?
nevermind.............I just peeled myself off the computer and compared the two (I have both)
Am I correct saying an abf intake and throttle body will work on a 9a
If im annoying you guys, you can tell me to "piss off ya bloody #%nt" <<<<<my english accent :grin:
-
:grin: Keep working on the accent mate
I think Rubjonny will answer that for you, but I would have thought not as the 9A runs a k-jet system and the abf has an extra sensor on the tb, although suppose it could just be ignored .. um, Rubjonny? :grin:
-
some have had bonnet clearance issues, but i never have. i use mk2 1.3 front and box mounts (i.e. the bonded rubber ones) and the 16v/g60 rear mount. worst thing i get is a bit of rubbing on my underbonnet sound proofing which ive been meaning to remove for months but i just havn't got round to it :grin:
the abf inlet will fit on the 9a, but you cant then fit k-jet injectors. not a problem if you plan to go megasquirt or digi1, and for the megasquirt its preferable to go with abf as then you have a tps :)
-
thanks for the quick reply guys :smiley: I was asking because the 9a throttle body has the throttle mechinism on the top unlike the abf's side mounted throttle, so mounting the 9a head on an aba comes with some clearence issues.
on that note i dont have a damn update yet due to winter, but i should have something done in a couple months
-jay
-
yeah abf + k-jet can result in bonnet rubbage, but i got away with it. no such problems with abf on digi managment :)
but then if you have a 9a its the same height as a kr so you'll have no trouble no matter which setup you go for. aba+abf are taller blocks which is where the issues can come from