GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: PenguinGTI on 02 August 2010, 22:58
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Ok I have hit a low point in my GTI ownership.
I had my GTI remapped a while ago. Not long after I bought a "Carbonio" style intake and installed it. Now I apologise for my lack of jargon but here goes.
The car felt really good. There was a good 'push-back-in-the-seat' feeling (torque I believe). This was most noticeable when comparing 70 and 90 in 6th. At 70 in 6th the car seemed to have no pull at all. At 90 however in 6th the turbo seemed to come alive and the car literally took off like a scalded cat.
Since then the intake was taken off. The map was taken off and the car returned to standard.
Now a few weeks ago I got the map re installed. At present the car is completely standard hardware with a stage 1 map.
Now the 'push-back-in-the-seats' feeling is not as strong. In 6th the car seems to start pulling at 65-70 but it never pulls as strongly as before.
Now the most obvious comment might be to go to the guy who mapped the car and get him to check the map is right. I have and he assures me it is the exact same map.
I have several questions:
1. Is this a case of a less torquey map or is it perhaps a less aggresive map?
2. Is this perhaps due to the OEM air intake?
3. Could the engine have developed and changed the map/ grown into the map?
(Now to be honest I cannot remember what the car felt with the original map before I got the air intake installed the first time round so I cannot comment on this or use it for consideration unfortunately)
The car is going to be tested on the dyno on Wed (the same dyno I had it on before so at least it will be as accurate as possible to the previous result).
Furthermore can anyone with a Revo or Superchips remap describe the delivery of power on their car? Ideally I am not bothered about figures but I really enjoy the feeling of being pushed back in the seat. (I have come to learn that most firms make the maps as smooth as possible ultimately preventing this). :sad:
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An induction makes a big difference on VAG cars mate, could be that.
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An induction makes a big difference on VAG cars mate, could be that.
I do agree that induction makes a difference but the turbo never seemed to get full power until around 90 whereas now it seems to hit full power around 70. Would the induction make that much difference?
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An induction makes a big difference on VAG cars mate, could be that.
I do agree that induction makes a difference but the turbo never seemed to get full power until around 90 whereas now it seems to hit full power around 70. Would the induction make that much difference?
Possibly mate, its hard to tell without a back to back dyno with and without though. Could it be something simple like a split DV?
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Possibly mate, its hard to tell without a back to back dyno with and without though. Could it be something simple like a split DV?
I never considered this. I doubt this is the issue but tbh I would not be able to identify it even if it was. What would the symptoms be? Anything else besides loss of torque?
Although from what I do know the split DV would cause a lack of hp also. The car is still quick but I think it just has less torque (or the torque spread more evenly).
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An induction makes a big difference on VAG cars mate, could be that.
On a Mk5, I'd agree.
Perhaps on K04 cars too...
But the OEM inlet on the Mk6 seems pretty well sorted - the tuners just aren't getting the gains from them that previous inlets gave...so I'd be amazed in an inlet gave a gain you could actually feel, on a Mk6.
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An induction makes a big difference on VAG cars mate, could be that.
On a Mk5, I'd agree.
Perhaps on K04 cars too...
But the OEM inlet on the Mk6 seems pretty well sorted - the tuners just aren't getting the gains from them that previous inlets gave...so I'd be amazed in an inlet gave a gain you could actually feel, on a Mk6.
See I have always been a bit sceptical about the gains of an intake. I never believe what the companies claim in terms of gains. Which is why I didn't think it was the intake in this situation.
Also the problem I feel lies more in the spool time of the turbo (around 70 rather than at 90). I really believe it must be the characteristics of the second map so I think I'm either going to have to get the map re-done again or go elsewhere.
If I am looking elsewhere then it's really between Revo and Superchips. I know Revo have issues sometimes but Superchips seem a bit conservative.
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An induction makes a big difference on VAG cars mate, could be that.
On a Mk5, I'd agree.
Perhaps on K04 cars too...
But the OEM inlet on the Mk6 seems pretty well sorted - the tuners just aren't getting the gains from them that previous inlets gave...so I'd be amazed in an inlet gave a gain you could actually feel, on a Mk6.
Agreed it doesn't give as much gains as something similar on a K04 Mk5, but still it's noticeable IMHO.
From the VCDS logging, the butt dyno calculations put the increase around 18-20bhp when combined with Stage 2 software and the TBE :smiley:
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See I have always been a bit sceptical about the gains of an intake. I never believe what the companies claim in terms of gains. Which is why I didn't think it was the intake in this situation.
I'm the same...never found one for the 1.8T that gave anything meaningful, or the ABF 16v, or the VR6 - which is whay I kept going back to modified OEM airboxes.
I always dyno them myself too...
The Mk5 opened my eyes however...there were proper gains to be found - on indepandany dynos.
But the Mk6 looks to have been designed better - which may account for the Mk6 making 'healthy' numbers on every dyno you see.
I'm not saying there aren't gains...but the gains are small, next to some of the proper gains you can get with a Mk5....and in my view, certainly too small a gain to do what you describe.
Also the problem I feel lies more in the spool time of the turbo (around 70 rather than at 90). I really believe it must be the characteristics of the second map so I think I'm either going to have to get the map re-done again or go elsewhere.
I'd be looking at the DV.
It is OK?
Sticking partially open maybe?
If I am looking elsewhere then it's really between Revo and Superchips. I know Revo have issues sometimes but Superchips seem a bit conservative.
Tough choice...
I have driven a Mk6 with a VW Racing Stage 2 map on it...and it was impressive - like standard but lots more of it, with epic midrange. Still linear though...although dying off once over 6500 RPM.
If the Mk6 follows the Mk5 trend, REVO will have a more aggressive midrange...
Which, judging by how much the orange light flashed, and how little grip appeared to be found, may prove to be a bad thing for A-B stuff...but very good for bragging rights!
I really need to find a REVO Mk6 to try.
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Ok thanks for the responses guys. Really appreciate it. Spoke to the guy who did my map. He is a great guy tbh. He said to look at the DV also. Failing that we are going to look at the dyno sheets after wed and see what is different.
Short of getting the car up and looking underneath it is there any way to tell if the DV is faulty? I really don't know what I should be looking for. :undecided:
If the DV is faulty then will it hiss at all or anything?
As for the air intakes I think I am going to give them a miss. For now. Although I do like the look of the BSH trueseal intake (but I reckon the Carbonio is perhaps better). But I do appreciate the input.
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Whats a split dv ? :embarassed:
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(http://forgemotorsport.com/upload/images/solenoid.jpg)
The orange rubber shown above can split/tear causing a small boost leak and a drop in performance.
Not really been heard of much with the Mk6 (as the DV has been revised several times) but early remapped Mk5 had this as a common problem.
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Also the Mk6 is fitted with the later DV (as shown on the right) which now have an enclosed piston rather than open diaphragm.
(http://www.my-gti.com/wp-content/uploads/06f145710g-06h145710d.jpg)
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I thought I'd heard the Mk6 didn't have the same problem.
So, is it really worth changing the DV to a Forge, or similar?
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^^^ As I said above it's not been heard of much with the Mk6 but I beleive some of the early 09 plates will have the Rev G version rather than the rev D piston type DV.
I know of a couple of Rocco's on the TSI engine that have split the Rev G one when remapped.
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So is there anything I should spot when driving that would indicate a split dv. I really don't think it is this cause the car is still fast. There is no hissing that I can hear or anything when driving.
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The only real ways are to log the car with VCDS and check the waste gate duty cycle isn't pegged to 99% most of the time or remove and inspect the DV.
I really doubt it's the cause IMHO.
Have you been using the same fuel and has the car had time to adapt since the remap was re-applied?
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Ta Steve. :smiley:
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The only real ways are to log the car with VCDS and check the waste gate duty cycle isn't pegged to 99% most of the time or remove and inspect the DV.
I really doubt it's the cause IMHO.
Have you been using the same fuel and has the car had time to adapt since the remap was re-applied?
Same fuel. I run it on Sainsburies 97 octane for normal use. The second map has been in the car for a good fortnight or two. But the first map was noticeable the first night it was installed.
The more I read now and think about it the more it points to the map. I guess tomorrow is D Day (Both figuratively and literally D = Dyno Day :grin:) so we shall see how that goes.
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Ide say my car is miles faster in winter when its colder, My GTI hates warm air.