GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Dawnskaybug on 22 July 2010, 18:11
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I just got it back from Blackstone Labs in the mail.. I will scan it tomorrow
I drive my car hard. I peeled out of the dealership with 5 miles on it and never did a break in period.
Basically it says
This is the first oil change and the high wear we are seeing is from the internal parts getting to know each other. We will probably see the results of this wear in phase for the next 3-4 oil changes. Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 5400 miles on the oil. The TBN was a STRONG 2.9 showing plenty of active additives left, less than 1.0 is too low. The air and oil filters are working well. For now try a couple of 5-7k oil changes untill all the metal abrasives washes out.
Elements PPM that were hi-lighted
Aluminum 9 Average is(-) 3
Iron 108 -16
Copper 38 - 6
silicon 51 - 7
Properties
SUS viscosity @ 210*F 65.7
cST viscosity @100*F 11.79
Fuel <.5% - 2.0
Antifreeze 0
Water 0 -<.1
insolubles .3% - <.6%
TBN 2.9
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So are these good or bad ?. :huh: :undecided:
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Can you explain your results, please.
Nice to have a well run-in engine so soon.
Nice and loose.
Feels any better?
My car has become so quiet with both engine and gearbox 'noise' significantly less.
Silky progress. :smiley:
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Well it looks like the oil itself was holding up fine. There were metal particles in the oil but this was the first oil change. I will be doing another change at 17,000 miles. I am using Mobil 1 ESP now.
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A scientific approach indeed!
I will look forward to the next set of results. Any idea when you will have reached 17K?
Also, did you do any topping up during the first 9k?
I find on my mk 5 I have to add a bit (250ml) every 1k or so.
Brilliant work.
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Interesting read
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
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Interesting read
http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf
Really interesting read. :smiley:
If you don't mind me asking, which oil do you use yourself in your GTi?
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I guess that was on the original oil. He now has Mobil 1 ESP
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I guess that was on the original oil. He now has Mobil 1 ESP
But is it any good? It seems from the article Mobil 1 did not fare too well. Wonder if the Mobil 1 ESP is any better
I use Motul Specific 504 00 5W30. I wonder how this would fare? :rolleyes:
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But is it any good? It seems from the article Mobil 1 did not fare too well. Wonder if the Mobil 1 ESP is any better
I use Motul Specific 504 00 5W30. I wonder how this would fare? :rolleyes:
Motul Specific will produce a big wear scar. If it didn't, I'd be worried.
The test they use is entirely misleading - as they say, a little knowledge can be dangerous. Firstly it is not representative of any loading condition in the engine. Secondly the results are as expected and do not highlight any deficiencies in the decent oils (Motul, Helix, Fuchs, Mobil 1) but rather show they are superior. Lastly it is a very basic comparison of oil viscosity which was created in the 1930's before we developed an understanding of the science of lubrication.
The reason the obscure and cheaper oils produced much smaller wear scars is that they are thicker at room temperature (higher base oil viscosity). In fact high viscosity is the last thing you want in a cold engine. All the decent oils shown have lower viscosity at room temp as you'd expect of 0W and 5W rated oils. You'd get a similar test result from cooking oil, and I don't think most people would consider that for their GTI engine.
Of particular note is the Penrite oil, which they claim to be the best and based on its 5W60 rating seems to be suited to a huge temperature range. However it is a high viscosity oil (proven by the testing) not suited to low temperatures and only achieves its 5W rating because of viscosity modifiers. In use these break down relatively quickly, the oil will thicken and become more like a 15W50 within 1500 miles or so - good for the high temperatures and unsophisticated V8 engines in Australia, but not really suitable for turbo motors driven in Europe.
As a side note, the oil analysis in the original post found higher concentrations of iron in the oil. This provides evidence that wear does occur as components are run in - even with the 'modern engine tolerances' which many claim make running in irrelevant.
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Thanks mac7 for your detailed reply. I was a bit sceptical about the test procedures myself and glad you put my mind at rest.
I'll continue using my Motul with confidence.
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But is it any good? It seems from the article Mobil 1 did not fare too well. Wonder if the Mobil 1 ESP is any better
I use Motul Specific 504 00 5W30. I wonder how this would fare? :rolleyes:
Motul Specific will produce a big wear scar. If it didn't, I'd be worried.
The test they use is entirely misleading - as they say, a little knowledge can be dangerous. Firstly it is not representative of any loading condition in the engine. Secondly the results are as expected and do not highlight any deficiencies in the decent oils (Motul, Helix, Fuchs, Mobil 1) but rather show they are superior. Lastly it is a very basic comparison of oil viscosity which was created in the 1930's before we developed an understanding of the science of lubrication.
The reason the obscure and cheaper oils produced much smaller wear scars is that they are thicker at room temperature (higher base oil viscosity). In fact high viscosity is the last thing you want in a cold engine. All the decent oils shown have lower viscosity at room temp as you'd expect of 0W and 5W rated oils. You'd get a similar test result from cooking oil, and I don't think most people would consider that for their GTI engine.
Of particular note is the Penrite oil, which they claim to be the best and based on its 5W60 rating seems to be suited to a huge temperature range. However it is a high viscosity oil (proven by the testing) not suited to low temperatures and only achieves its 5W rating because of viscosity modifiers. In use these break down relatively quickly, the oil will thicken and become more like a 15W50 within 1500 miles or so - good for the high temperatures and unsophisticated V8 engines in Australia, but not really suitable for turbo motors driven in Europe.
As a side note, the oil analysis in the original post found higher concentrations of iron in the oil. This provides evidence that wear does occur as components are run in - even with the 'modern engine tolerances' which many claim make running in irrelevant.
This is good stuff to read, very intresting thanks Mac :wink:
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Thank you again for clearing that up I just posted it up and didnt think that that test was that accurate on engines.
Also like I said I did not break in my engine. I redline it pretty much all the time.
So what about an oil FILTER CHANGE @ 5k? Would that help?
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Thank you again for clearing that up I just posted it up and didnt think that that test was that accurate on engines.
Also like I said I did not break in my engine. I redline it pretty much all the time.
So what about an oil FILTER CHANGE @ 5k? Would that help?
Definitely with every oil change, as the filter will be new and clean, without any debris and does not cost the earth. Not to change would be pennywise pound foolish. :smiley:
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No I meant change the filter at every 5k then the oil at 10k
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No I meant change the filter at every 5k then the oil at 10k
Is it easy to do without a complete oil change?
If you can, then why not. But is it worth it?
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The filter takes 45 seconds to remove its on top of the engine and there is a check valve so you dont drip a drop of oil. you just have to top off whatever oil was in the filter.
The filter removes stuff from the oil and I have stuff in it..
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The filter takes 45 seconds to remove its on top of the engine and there is a check valve so you dont drip a drop of oil. you just have to top off whatever oil was in the filter.
The filter removes stuff from the oil and I have stuff in it..
Ok then. Go for it. Just shows how out of date I am!
Do you use Mobil 1 ESP?
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Yes I used Mobil 1 ESP. The test was with OEM Castrol.
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The filter takes 45 seconds to remove its on top of the engine and there is a check valve so you dont drip a drop of oil. you just have to top off whatever oil was in the filter.
The filter removes stuff from the oil and I have stuff in it..
I did an oil change today on my GTD, its not that simple anymore found it a bit fiddley TBH, its the filter where they put in the top part of the engine got remove pipe work & senser to get to it bit of nightmare to do!! :undecided:
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I dont have a diesel the hoses just snapped off.
I had to take the cover off also..
OK make it 2 minutes
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An Email from Blackstone I asked.
At 03:14 PM 7/24/2010, you wrote:
I have a question. Would changing my filter at maybe 3,000 miles help eliminate the metals? My filter is on top of my engine and it has a check valve so I dont lose oil when changing it.
Matt: Thanks for the e-mail. Changing the oil filter early would lower your wear metals, though since most of this is due to normal break-in, you should see a nice drop in wear next time, even without an oil filter change.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
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An Email from Blackstone I asked.
At 03:14 PM 7/24/2010, you wrote:
I have a question. Would changing my filter at maybe 3,000 miles help eliminate the metals? My filter is on top of my engine and it has a check valve so I dont lose oil when changing it.
Matt: Thanks for the e-mail. Changing the oil filter early would lower your wear metals, though since most of this is due to normal break-in, you should see a nice drop in wear next time, even without an oil filter change.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Damned Good if you do, damned good if you don't!
Do! :wink:
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(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k59/dawnskaybug/DawnsKayBugoilchange.jpg)