GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: dbcperformance on 20 July 2010, 04:10
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Title says it all. I always wondered what other people on the other side of the world doing? Here we have the usual suspects APR, REVO, Unitronic and GIAC. Please educate me from your past and present experiences, which companies are big players in the market? I am not necessarily asking who is the best, that always opens can of worms, but I think there are some solid tuners across the pond.
Thanks in advance
-Berk
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Superchips I am told are the biggest and possibly the oldest in the UK. They are the ones of Bluefin fame.
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Revo seem the most popular :sick:
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REVO and APR for sure!
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You mentioned ...other side of the world..uhhhmmm......Holland :laugh:
Here the two most familiar with dutch GTI clubs are JD Engineering and ABT :wink:
JD Engineering is cheap(er) and I would say very very experienced the amount of GTI's chipped and dob'd by them are enormous, check it out maybe worth a nice boattrip...to Hoek van Holland. :cool:
I myself did ABT ...only reason was the warranty...but they did a great job.
DSG smooth under all conditions a very little bit holding back in "D" mode some instances particularly when you suddenly floor it, I guess that is in order not to spin on the spot or collect unwanted DSG-spare parts behind you....although my tuning only launches 390 torque on a DSG which can have 500 torque before meltdown I guess they still do it for a reason. (If anyone wants to comment ...I think it remains on topic)
In the "S" mode it is a different story a one way trip to max speed...as if you have no gears.... :cool:
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Here in Saudi Arabia I don't know of any local tuner, although there is a Dubai based Revo accredited dealer. Not much use for me though as the Mk6 is not tunable in present form due to the encryption issue affecting post Sept 09 models.
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Revo seem the most popular :sick:
erm.. i think i am starting to agree. my car has been acting very strange recently* :embarassed:
still stupidly fast tho :grin:
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Here in Saudi Arabia I don't know of any local tuner, although there is a Dubai based Revo accredited dealer. Not much use for me though as the Mk6 is not tunable in present form due to the encryption issue affecting post Sept 09 models.
My car is MY10, built February
No encryption on the OBD port.. :cool:
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Here in Saudi Arabia I don't know of any local tuner, although there is a Dubai based Revo accredited dealer. Not much use for me though as the Mk6 is not tunable in present form due to the encryption issue affecting post Sept 09 models.
My car is MY10, built February
No encryption on the OBD port.. :cool:
me also, my10 built in April no encryption code on ecu.
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Here in Saudi Arabia I don't know of any local tuner, although there is a Dubai based Revo accredited dealer. Not much use for me though as the Mk6 is not tunable in present form due to the encryption issue affecting post Sept 09 models.
My car is MY10, built February
No encryption on the OBD port.. :cool:
OK..OK... I was too lazy to point out that there are exceptions - it depends on the ECU part number I think, from what I understand after speaking to JKM.
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Here in Saudi Arabia I don't know of any local tuner, although there is a Dubai based Revo accredited dealer. Not much use for me though as the Mk6 is not tunable in present form due to the encryption issue affecting post Sept 09 models.
My car is MY10, built February
No encryption on the OBD port.. :cool:
me also, my10 built in April no encryption code on ecu.
Hmm.. really? Maybe its not the majority of models then, but just those with a particular revision of the ECU, but I don't get why VW would encrypt some ECUs and not others if a revision has been made. I was looking to get Bluefin as I am out in Saudi and don't want to go all the way to Dubai, but was told it may not work... there is a notice next to the Bluefin product on the JKM website. :undecided:
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US spec MK6s are all encrypted
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According to the Riyadh VW Sales Manager, the cars come from Wolfsburg as I was wondering (and concerned) if they were built in South Africa. The chassis number on their showroom demonstrator put my mind at rest... Hopefully, mine won't have an encrypted ECU... :evil: :evil: I wonder if an encrypted ECU also means that ROSS-TECH won't work? :sick:
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JD Engineering charges 100 euro or so extra in order to decrypt before they can start.
So all the 2010 models are more expensive to tune...
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JD Engineering charges 100 euro or so extra in order to decrypt before they can start.
So all the 2010 models are more expensive to tune...
Thanks for that. However, JD Engineering have can't have broken the encryption as it is based on 1024-bit RSA public key encryption from what I have heard - i.e. the same as the encryption for voip calls, banking websites etc... It would take all the computers in the world millions of years to decrypt using a brute force attack method - i.e. trying every combination. However, they may have found a hack or backdoor based on a weakness in the design of the ECU and I'd be very interested if they have managed to do that. I'll probably call them later today :evil:
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The encryption is only applicable for programming through the OBD port.
If you take the ECU out of the car they can all be programmed on the bench but it is obvious then to anyone that the car has been mapped.
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The encryption is only applicable for programming through the OBD port.
If you take the ECU out of the car they can all be programmed on the bench but it is obvious then to anyone that the car has been mapped.
Yes, thats right. I thought (was hoping) maybe, they had found a way around the security on the OBD interface...
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Sorry if I confuse things but the end result still stays the same the 2010 models can be tuned by "outside"- tuners obviuosly the better ones with the experience and the (computer)skills
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I think VW will find that it only stops remaps for a limited time... and maybe even stops people from buying new. I dont think I would have got a GTI if it couldnt have been remapped.
Maybe even slightly stronger residuals from those outside the warranty period.
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The encryption is only applicable for programming through the OBD port.
If you take the ECU out of the car they can all be programmed on the bench but it is obvious then to anyone that the car has been mapped.
APRs is undetectable and when you put back the ECU the sealant melts and reseals the compartment. Just make sure they put in new tamper proof bolts.
UK cars are starting to get encrypted. I forget who but one place had a rocco that was encrypted and they were waiting for the cables you need. I passed because I didnt want my car to be the first. Awesome GTI has the cables and they have chipped encrypted VWs. What "they" are doing is basically shorting out the ECU and reprogramming it.
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. I dont think I would have got a GTI if it couldnt have been remapped.
Well I certainly disagree.. :wink:.....
I had 4 years of fun with the standard one....
Today I bought TopGear Mag (dutch) and out of 7 hothatches it is the best (allrounder)...the standard one.
I must admit now we have got the knowledge what happens after a remap that it becomes a different ballgame and probably would be the best overall...so winning from that stupid (overall winner) Clio Cup in that same Top Gear Mag :sick:
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Well I certainly disagree.. :wink:.....
I had 4 years of fun with the standard one....
Today I bought TopGear Mag (dutch) and out of 7 hothatches it is the best (allrounder)...the standard one.
I must admit now we have got the knowledge what happens after a remap that it becomes a different ballgame and probably would be the best overall...so winning from that stupid (overall winner) Clio Cup in that same Top Gear Mag :sick:
Have you driven a Cleo Cup 200?
I have and I can assure you it is quite an amazing drive. Top gear are not wrong as far as the thrills are concerned! Though not for me (3 doors), it is a brilliant car. :smiley:
Credit where credit is due. :cool:
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Sorry if I confuse things but the end result still stays the same the 2010 models can be tuned by "outside"- tuners obviuosly the better ones with the experience and the (computer)skills
Yes, a remap is still possible by removing the ECU, but its a pain! No more OBD Plug-and-Play Bluefin or SPS Switch functionality until that encryption is broken and I don't think that will happen for a number of years. I really can't understand why VW moved from 8-bit to 1024-bit encryption - surely they know that a big part in the success of the GTI is its potential for tuning? Here's hoping someone can find a genius workaround :undecided:
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very true, we have to remove the ECUs on all MY2010+ VW/Audis, then open them up in order to put them in read mode, then flash it. One good things, after the first operation, rest of the upgrades or updates are done through obd port.
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Well I certainly disagree.. :wink:.....
I had 4 years of fun with the standard one....
Today I bought TopGear Mag (dutch) and out of 7 hothatches it is the best (allrounder)...the standard one.
I must admit now we have got the knowledge what happens after a remap that it becomes a different ballgame and probably would be the best overall...so winning from that stupid (overall winner) Clio Cup in that same Top Gear Mag :sick:
Have you driven a Cleo Cup 200?
I have and I can assure you it is quite an amazing drive. Top gear are not wrong as far as the thrills are concerned! Though not for me (3 doors), it is a brilliant car. :smiley:
Credit where credit is due. :cool:
It is one of those things...no french or japanese cars for me...that's all.... so no sensible or valid argument... :embarassed: :smiley:
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very true, we have to remove the ECUs on all MY2010+ VW/Audis, then open them up in order to put them in read mode, then flash it. One good things, after the first operation, rest of the upgrades or updates are done through obd port.
My stage I is done with ABT (VW) does that mean that eg I can take it ANYWHERE for stage II....or does VW encryp it again...
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Well I certainly disagree.. :wink:.....
I had 4 years of fun with the standard one....
Today I bought TopGear Mag (dutch) and out of 7 hothatches it is the best (allrounder)...the standard one.
I must admit now we have got the knowledge what happens after a remap that it becomes a different ballgame and probably would be the best overall...so winning from that stupid (overall winner) Clio Cup in that same Top Gear Mag :sick:
Have you driven a Cleo Cup 200?
I have and I can assure you it is quite an amazing drive. Top gear are not wrong as far as the thrills are concerned! Though not for me (3 doors), it is a brilliant car. :smiley:
Credit where credit is due. :cool:
It is one of those things...no french or japanese cars for me...that's all.... so no sensible or valid argument... :embarassed: :smiley:
I'm like that with all non-German cars... Jap cars are excellent for their value and quality (ignoring the recent Toyota debacle :lipsrsealed:) but I wouldn't buy one unless it was a Nissan GT-R or something like that :laugh:
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One good things, after the first operation, rest of the upgrades or updates are done through obd port.
Thats true! Overlooked the fact that the encryption is removed after flashing the ECU :rolleyes: :embarassed:
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the Clio Cup is one of the best cars I have ever driven.
And although the GTI becomes a different beast when it is remapped, so does everything else.
GTI goes from 210 hp to 270 hp
R goes from 265 to 310
Focus RS goes from 300 to 350 hp.
So although the remapped GTI is perhaps even better as an all rounder, the others still maintain their own strengths in terms of pace.
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the Clio Cup is one of the best cars I have ever driven.
And although the GTI becomes a different beast when it is remapped, so does everything else.
GTI goes from 210 hp to 270 hp
R goes from 265 to 310
Focus RS goes from 300 to 350 hp.
So although the remapped GTI is perhaps even better as an all rounder, the others still maintain their own strengths in terms of pace.
What would I do without your eloquence? :wink:
So glad you kept your GTi and are an integral and vital part of this forum. :smiley:
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....if you disagree with the results blame Jeremy Clarkson...
I myself do not like that French voiture....the Stig does....see how important my opinion suddenly becomes... :laugh:
BTW ...the test was done with 11 hot hatches UN-tuned
To make matters worse the GTI came out better than the "R" (and the Polo (GTI) and the Scirocco both came out really bad :lipsrsealed:).....
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Erik: Have you driven a Renaultsport Cleo 200 Cup? :rolleyes:
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No..as I said earlier...I have no valid reason...maybe it has to do with the fact that french cars do have a higher rate of failure/problems...but on the other hand I dislike Japanese cars as well.....I think a straight case for a psychiatrist... :laugh:
Probably has to do with the childish reaction that my GTI lost over the Renault......as a matter of fact I wouldn't have minded as much if the "R" was the winner or the Focus RS for that matter :wink:
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I myself would not buy a Cleo nor a French or Italian car for that matter. In the past, they have all been a huge amount of trouble and the dealership experience has been pretty poor.
The Renaultsport Cleo 200 drives brilliantly, that's it. The rest of it is cack. Not enough room, 3 doors, ugly front end, pathetic interior design, the list goes on and on and on. In the real world, the GTi is probably the best car to own, not too big, fast, smooth and roomy, stylish internally and externally, beautifully made this list goes on and on with positives.
I certainly don't want a track focused car to break my bones on a daily basis. :sick:
The GTi will do me just fine. :smiley:
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The Renaultsport Cleo 200 drives brilliantly, that's it. The rest of it is cack. Not enough room, 3 doors, ugly front end, pathetic interior design, the list goes on and on and on. In the real world, the GTi is probably the best car to own, not too big, fast, smooth and roomy, stylish internally and externally, beautifully made this list goes on and on with positives.
Well said! :cool:
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Yes, but a NEW Reanult Clio 200 Cup is about £17,000 comapred to the £24,000 of the GTI.
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£17,000 for a Clio :sick: :sick: :sick:
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I quite like them although I've never sat in one. Just think they look quite nice.
You could argue the same thing in saying £24,000 for a family hatchback that goes a bit fast . . . :sick:
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Once a Renaultsport Cleo 200 + cup chassis + all mod cons is specced to bring it up to near GTi levels of comfort and convenience, it costs a lot more than £17,000. Around £21,000 and then depreciates like buggery! :sick:
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I tried to do that but the Renault website is was fecking awful and I gave up and just got the price of a website review lol
What level of comforts are you talking about? The GTI doesn't come with leather, satnav, ipod, multi function steering wheel, sun roof, cruise control, bluetooth, parking assist etc (I could go on) as standard. Im only guessing the Clio will come with a similar level of spec in standard form as the GTI?
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I tried to do that but the Renault website is was fecking awful and I gave up and just got the price of a website review lol
The website is pretty pooh IMA. I had to spec in the old fashioned way using a book! How educational!
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Im getting a headache just thinking of that.
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The mk6 comes with multi-function steering wheel, auto lights, auto wipers, heated mirrors and washer jets, ipod and mp3 connectivity and more as standard.
For what it is the Clio is a fantastic car. It is simply a small, light and nimble, naturally aspirated 'pure' drivers car for a back road or trackday. It is not however a 5 seater semi luxury GT car which the GTI more closely represents.
I think if you want to realise how good the Clio is then compare it to the Civic Type R. Its the same principle but in a tidier package for a good bit cheaper.
And I do think the Clio is very reasonably priced compared to the Corsa VXR, Fiat Abarth (considerably slower) and the nicely expensive Mini Cooper S.
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For what it is the Clio is a fantastic car. It is simply a small, light and nimble, naturally aspirated 'pure' drivers car for a back road or trackday. It is not however a 5 seater semi luxury GT car which the GTI more closely represents.
Couldn't agree more and that is more than represented in the price difference so really all is fair in my book.
To say that the GTI gets more as standard is wrong I think. Some auto lights and a steering wheel dont equate to £7k but considering they are both hot hatches they are very different cars.
Still REALLY like the Clio 200.
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Alan I defo agree with you. The price difference does not relate to the extras but to the difference in car.
And I also love the clio 200. Would love one as a weekend or track toy. :drool:
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Alan I defo agree with you. The price difference does not relate to the extras but to the difference in car.
And I also love the clio 200. Would love one as a weekend or track toy. :drool:
And unfortunately that's all it esentially is when you really examine it very carefully/logically. :lipsrsealed:
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Indeed!
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I'm still very happy with my Bluefin.
First service next month so I'll have to remove it for a while. :sad:
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Anyone done a 0-60 time yet after a remap?
I've done a very amateurish 5.5 with a passenger and a stopwatch over 3 attempts.
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APR :cool:
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Going off the 1/4 mile leader board for the mk5/leon/ed30 and s3 i would say revo.
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Going off the 1/4 mile leader board for the mk5/leon/ed30 and s3 i would say revo.
where did you find that? any links?
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http://www.mk5golfgti.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9380.0.html