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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Dan_GTi8v on 13 July 2010, 12:03

Title: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 13 July 2010, 12:03
OK sorry if this has been covered before, I've looked around but cant find much
I've read the guides for the 8v 2.0 -1.8t conversion and am going to go down the qpeng electrics route with either an agu or a bam engine, ibiza cable clutch and keep my 8v cable throttle.
Question is, I've just fitted a wietec ultra gt 40mm kit and for obvious reasons would like to keep it :P would this work? or would the new engine be too heavy?
I will probably go the the agu as the bam will need more work on the brakes etc and will cost more money :P  but still looking into it.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 13 July 2010, 14:16
Suspension will be fine, brakes will need uprating.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 13 July 2010, 14:20
Suspension will be fine, brakes will need uprating.

ahh brakes are fine :tongue:

Make sure you do your research, I mean lots and lots and lots. That's were I failed. Pm me if you want any more specific info bud :)
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 13 July 2010, 15:32
I recently fitted new eicher discs and pagid pads all round, which I know are not the best but from what info I've found around here and other wites should be good enough for an AGU putting out 200bhp (which is what qpeng say it will get from their bits and pieces)
If I decide to do anything more with it I think by that time I will be ready for a bigger and better brake setup.

Im still in the very early stages of getting this done, I always wanted to do it but figured it would be a long time in the future. However after just spending the weekend at Le Man classic and driving my dads porshe 993 around southern france (where they have decent roads!) its got me hungry for more :)

One thing I also thought about is if I get the AGU and all the gubbins from qpeng, and then somewhere down the line decide to go for something bigger (BAM 270bhp for example) I will already have all the stuff and would just need a remap. is that correct?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 13 July 2010, 15:48
I believe a BAM is a different ecu set up, whatever happens you will need the ecu.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 14 July 2010, 11:54
I recently fitted new eicher discs and pagid pads all round, which I know are not the best but from what info I've found around here and other wites should be good enough for an AGU putting out 200bhp (which is what qpeng say it will get from their bits and pieces)
If I decide to do anything more with it I think by that time I will be ready for a bigger and better brake setup.

Im still in the very early stages of getting this done, I always wanted to do it but figured it would be a long time in the future. However after just spending the weekend at Le Man classic and driving my dads porshe 993 around southern france (where they have decent roads!) its got me hungry for more :)

One thing I also thought about is if I get the AGU and all the gubbins from qpeng, and then somewhere down the line decide to go for something bigger (BAM 270bhp for example) I will already have all the stuff and would just need a remap. is that correct?

As I said bud, k03s and you can mod the engine, etc, will just need to get the ecu remapped yes. no need for the standard ecu if you run qpeng.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Khare on 14 July 2010, 12:14
280mm brakes with uprated pads and discs will be enough to for a 1.8T.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 14 July 2010, 12:21
Why do you want to run qpeng, easier to run the factory ecu plus safer as well as you then have a knock sensor.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 13:14
As I said bud, k03s and you can mod the engine, etc, will just need to get the ecu remapped yes. no need for the standard ecu if you run qpeng.

Yeah I wrote most of this before I spoke to you, cheers for all the info and advice, been a big help :) Gonna go for an AUM with the standard K03s, much easier and cheaper than messing about with AGU and chnging the turbo

Why do you want to run qpeng, easier to run the factory ecu plus safer as well as you then have a knock sensor.


tbh I've not looked much into other ways of doing it, the guides I've read and people I've talked to have all done it through QPEng.
How would it be easier to do it another way? I thought one of the main selling points of the QPEng stuff was that its easier :P
I
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 14 July 2010, 13:15
Factory managment if available is always easier plus safer as it is running a knock sensor.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 15:33
by factory management you mean 1.8t ecu and loom? would that just plug straight in or what? Im a bit ignorant to the electrical side of things, which is the main reason I chose to go with QPEng (that and I'm a lazy b@stard)

After speaking to LL about it, ive decided im gonna go

AUM engine with K03s turbo
02a gearbox from a 16v or G60
Ibiza clutch cable setup
ABF flywheel and a VR6 clutch
QPEng management
QPEng downpipe, which will need slight modification to fit a sports cat
FMIC Intercooler
16v magnex catback system

what would need to be changed in this if I wanted to go for factory management? I wont be modifying anything more than whats listed above so it should be ok without a knock sensor?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: VR6_Wherry on 14 July 2010, 15:37
I would advise a knock sensor, but i know LL doesn't run one!  :grin:
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 14 July 2010, 16:05
I would advise a knock sensor, but i know LL doesn't run one!  :grin:

Yep +1 I would whatever path you take run a knock sensor.

Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 16:11
I was under the impression that you cant just add one though, its something thats built into the management? what can I do other than run different engine management?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 14 July 2010, 16:15
I was under the impression that you cant just add one though, its something thats built into the management? what can I do other than run different engine management?

some ecu's can run knock sensor, but the mbe 992 can't run one, hence why i don't have one. its not needed though if the ecu is mapped correctly, and qpeng's case they map it correctly and haven't had a problem with it.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 16:26
its not needed though if the ecu is mapped correctly, and qpeng's case they map it correctly and haven't had a problem with it.

This is what I thought, but some people have got me worried about what would happen if say I'm in the middle of nowhere with no petrol and dont have access to the good stuff
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 14 July 2010, 16:46
its not needed though if the ecu is mapped correctly, and qpeng's case they map it correctly and haven't had a problem with it.

This is what I thought, but some people have got me worried about what would happen if say I'm in the middle of nowhere with no petrol and dont have access to the good stuff


Wrong to say it is not needed, it may save your engine one day

With no knock sensor any detonation could mean a melted piston.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 16:58
What do knock sensors actually do then? How often does detonation happen on normal engines

whats involved if I wanted to use the ecu from a 1.8t?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 14 July 2010, 17:37
A knock sensor helps prevent pre-detonation. That is when the fuel ignites too early, causes the engine to 'knock'.
You can run without one, but as Wayne pointed out, if you don't then you are not protecting the engine.
Pre-detonation can happen even with a dud batch of fuel, so on a performance engine i would strongly recommend using a knock sensor.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: kells on 14 July 2010, 18:14
DO IT ONCE DO IT RIGHT springs to mind haha  :grin:

gonna rock the standard S3 management in mine with a superchips remap, would like bluefin if they do that for the S3
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 18:20
OK, I get what everyone is saying, and I would like to run a knock sensor if I could, but I kinda feel like I'm repeating myself as I've already asked in here a few times but all I get is 'run a knock sensor'

What would I need to do if I wanted to run the 1.8t management, or what other options do I have other than running QPEng management, bearing in mind I know next to nothing about the electronics side of the engines (pretty much all I know is what LL has told me and that I need to 'run a knock sensor')
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 23:00
Anyone done a conversion and not used qpeng?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 14 July 2010, 23:30
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=26874.0

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=124485.0
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 14 July 2010, 23:45
Cheers wayne, but I've read all that before and its all a bit too vauge. All the detailed info is from people who used QPEng

I've read somewhere that the QPEng 3 bar map sensor is enough protection, but was from a 2005 thread and I know very little about turbos and engine electronics. Is this correct?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 15 July 2010, 07:36
Quote from: some guy on Club GTi forums
it all depends on the mapping at the end of the day, if its mapped properly then the lack of sensors is hardly gonna come into it.

without knock control from an oem ecu the spark will have to be knocked back slightly do a definite safe point rather than whack in the spark and let the ecu handle it. this has advantages and disadvantages. your running less sensors yes, but then thres less to go wrong, if one of your knock sensors goes, youll get plenty of det, if qpeng is mapped at as safe point in the first place, you will not experience det if sensors fail.

Is this true?

Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 15 July 2010, 09:12
Quote from: some guy on Club GTi forums
it all depends on the mapping at the end of the day, if its mapped properly then the lack of sensors is hardly gonna come into it.

without knock control from an oem ecu the spark will have to be knocked back slightly do a definite safe point rather than whack in the spark and let the ecu handle it. this has advantages and disadvantages. your running less sensors yes, but then thres less to go wrong, if one of your knock sensors goes, youll get plenty of det, if qpeng is mapped at as safe point in the first place, you will not experience det if sensors fail.

Is this true?


Yes to a point however it is not a risk I would be willing to take.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: della_mk3 on 15 July 2010, 20:38
lmao at another knock sensor agument,  just run qpeng. they wouldnt make it if it wasnt safe
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 15 July 2010, 20:46
lmao at another knock sensor agument,  just run qpeng. they wouldnt make it if it wasnt safe

You run a very big risk of a melted piston not running one.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 15 July 2010, 21:14
I've spoken to ben at qpeng about it and he's assured me its as safe as running a system designed to use a knock sensor. I agree that not running a knock sensor on a system thats designed for one is a bit silly, but the whole qpeng system is designed around not running one and so detonation is highly unlikely. About as likely as running a sensor on a normal system and it failing

I may be taking his word for it, but I dont think qpeng would have the rep it has and see so many people using it if this was a real problem
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 15 July 2010, 23:58
The knock sensor is a safety net, you could run it without and it could be fine, but depends how tuned the engine is, or how much advance on the spark you want to run.
Surely by removing the knock sensor, you will limit the spark timing advance?
Will that not limit the engine power?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 16 July 2010, 06:40
Ben says you lose about 5bhp, but as the management is mapped specifically for that engine and turbo its a small loss compaired to the gain you get from that. the aum engine that i'll be using is 150bhp standard as is mapped to 230, so I'm not to worried about 5bhp :P

Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 16 July 2010, 08:56
Ben says you lose about 5bhp, but as the management is mapped specifically for that engine and turbo its a small loss compaired to the gain you get from that. the aum engine that i'll be using is 150bhp standard as is mapped to 230, so I'm not to worried about 5bhp :P



My view is this, if you can get the factory managment set up then it would be my choice, yes it would take a bit more work but I think it is safer, let me put it to you like this, running without some sensors is or can be ok but you have lost the safety net, if you think about it, say that you have a fuel pressure problem and it runs lean or a coil pack delivers a weak spark that is all it could take to damage the engine yet at least with the factory set up you have the back up of it dropping into limp home mode and saving it before it is too late.

It is your conversion at the end of the day but given the choice oem is the better option if available.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 16 July 2010, 22:57
Agree with Wayne.
If your engine blows up in a couple of years, will this company cover it?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 17 July 2010, 19:58
well no, but if a knock sensor failed or if it blew up for any other reason it wouldnt be covered either

So anyway I've been looking into other options for engine management, am I right in thinking all i need to do is plug in the 1.8t ecu? I understand I need to get the imobilizer taken off, but what would happen with the clocks etc would I need those as well? And would the engine run OK without being remapped? I would get it done eventually but just wondering if it would run without it being done for a while
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 17 July 2010, 21:01
well no, but if a knock sensor failed or if it blew up for any other reason it wouldnt be covered either

So anyway I've been looking into other options for engine management, am I right in thinking all i need to do is plug in the 1.8t ecu? I understand I need to get the imobilizer taken off, but what would happen with the clocks etc would I need those as well? And would the engine run OK without being remapped? I would get it done eventually but just wondering if it would run without it being done for a while

You need the loom and ecu.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 17 July 2010, 21:22
Can I just plug the ecu straight in though or does it need something doing to it first?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 17 July 2010, 21:49
Can I just plug the ecu straight in though or does it need something doing to it first?

Not 100% sure but I think it will need the immob removing.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 17 July 2010, 22:41
if the engine blows, buy another!

qpeng ftw. and its doesnt really limit power, mine runs over 240bhp.

well no, but if a knock sensor failed or if it blew up for any other reason it wouldnt be covered either

So anyway I've been looking into other options for engine management, am I right in thinking all i need to do is plug in the 1.8t ecu? I understand I need to get the imobilizer taken off, but what would happen with the clocks etc would I need those as well? And would the engine run OK without being remapped? I would get it done eventually but just wondering if it would run without it being done for a while

it wont blow up, Ben is a legend!

if you run the 1.8t ecu, you will need the loom, clocks and i think you run your mk3 ecu with the 1.8t ecu..... arghhh i dunno! just go qpeng! :D
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 17 July 2010, 23:32
if the engine blows, buy another!

qpeng ftw. and its doesnt really limit power, mine runs over 240bhp.

well no, but if a knock sensor failed or if it blew up for any other reason it wouldnt be covered either

So anyway I've been looking into other options for engine management, am I right in thinking all i need to do is plug in the 1.8t ecu? I understand I need to get the imobilizer taken off, but what would happen with the clocks etc would I need those as well? And would the engine run OK without being remapped? I would get it done eventually but just wondering if it would run without it being done for a while

it wont blow up, Ben is a legend!

if you run the 1.8t ecu, you will need the loom, clocks and i think you run your mk3 ecu with the 1.8t ecu..... arghhh i dunno! just go qpeng! :D


What kind of advice is if it blows up buy another.  :rolleyes:

And you only need to run the 1 ecu.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 18 July 2010, 02:12
if the engine blows, buy another!

qpeng ftw. and its doesnt really limit power, mine runs over 240bhp.

well no, but if a knock sensor failed or if it blew up for any other reason it wouldnt be covered either

So anyway I've been looking into other options for engine management, am I right in thinking all i need to do is plug in the 1.8t ecu? I understand I need to get the imobilizer taken off, but what would happen with the clocks etc would I need those as well? And would the engine run OK without being remapped? I would get it done eventually but just wondering if it would run without it being done for a while

it wont blow up, Ben is a legend!

if you run the 1.8t ecu, you will need the loom, clocks and i think you run your mk3 ecu with the 1.8t ecu..... arghhh i dunno! just go qpeng! :D


What kind of advice is if it blows up buy another.  :rolleyes:

:D :D :D
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 18 July 2010, 06:02
Im not worried about knock sensors, im looking at other options simply because they are a lot cheaper :P £1000 for a loom ecu and a remap seems a bit steep, fair enough they do the loom which probably takes time, but how hard is a bit of rewiring :)
I just need to look more into the other bits and pieces like map sensors etc to see what I need if I do it with a 1.8t ecu
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 19 July 2010, 14:23
Thinking I may go for a revo remap on a standard ecu now.
Can I use any 1.8t ecu or does it need to be from an AUM (or whatever engine I go for)?

Gonna get me a second hand loom from ebay and have a go at the wiring and work out what I need, am I right in thinking everything I need will be either on the new loom or my mk3 one and its just a case of splicing it together?

£350+vat for a stage 2 remap and imob defeat, so I think I just need a map sensor and a 4 bar fuel regulator. sound like a plan?

Do I need any kind of special map sensor? Just curious as a standard 1.8t is around £30 off ebay but the qpeng one is £60+vat
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 19 July 2010, 15:19
You need the ecu and loom that matches your engine or try and get it with the engine.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 19 July 2010, 15:25
got the loom but no ecu, was just curious as its gonna be remapped didnt know if this changed things

Do you know about map sensors? is one 3 bar map sensor the same as the next one? not sure why the qpeng one is over twice as much
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 19 July 2010, 15:26
got the loom but no ecu, was just curious as its gonna be remapped didnt know if this changed things

Do you know about map sensors? is one 3 bar map sensor the same as the next one? not sure why the qpeng one is over twice as much

I believe a standard map sensor will be ok.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 19 July 2010, 15:44
OK cheers for the advice :) took a bit of convincing but qpeng can keep their management and i'll keep my £1000 :P
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 19 July 2010, 15:46
OK cheers for the advice :) took a bit of convincing but qpeng can keep their management and i'll keep my £1000 :P

It is your conversion but it is the path I would take.
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 19 July 2010, 15:49
tbh its the way i'd prefer to do it, I just couldnt find much info about it. I found quite a few threads from other people wanting to do it here and on other forums, but the answers were all 'go qpeng'
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 19 July 2010, 17:05
OK cheers for the advice :) took a bit of convincing but qpeng can keep their management and i'll keep my £1000 :P

It is your conversion but it is the path I would take.

+1
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 20 August 2010, 08:52
tbh its the way i'd prefer to do it, I just couldnt find much info about it. I found quite a few threads from other people wanting to do it here and on other forums, but the answers were all 'go qpeng'

What does that tell you?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Wayne on 20 August 2010, 09:49
tbh its the way i'd prefer to do it, I just couldnt find much info about it. I found quite a few threads from other people wanting to do it here and on other forums, but the answers were all 'go qpeng'

What does that tell you?

Yep but given the choice oem managment is the better choice, much safer, obd port and other gains.

Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 20 August 2010, 10:31
tbh its the way i'd prefer to do it, I just couldnt find much info about it. I found quite a few threads from other people wanting to do it here and on other forums, but the answers were all 'go qpeng'

What does that tell you?

Yep but given the choice oem managment is the better choice, much safer, obd port and other gains.

I totally agree bud :afro:
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: todd on 21 August 2010, 10:35
by factory management you mean 1.8t ecu and loom? would that just plug straight in or what? Im a bit ignorant to the electrical side of things, which is the main reason I chose to go with QPEng (that and I'm a lazy b@stard)

After speaking to LL about it, ive decided im gonna go

AUM engine with K03s turbo
02a gearbox from a 16v or G60
Ibiza clutch cable setup
ABF flywheel and a VR6 clutch
QPEng management
QPEng downpipe, which will need slight modification to fit a sports cat

get a g60 box apperently they have lsd
FMIC Intercooler
16v magnex catback system

what would need to be changed in this if I wanted to go for factory management? I wont be modifying anything more than whats listed above so it should be ok without a knock sensor?
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: Dan_GTi8v on 22 August 2010, 01:04
I know what im doing with this now, I just need funding :)
Got a AUM ecu with a stage 1 map for £300 thanks to topher :) could of got a stage 2 for same price but been advised to start out with a stage 1 till everything is running ok

Gonna get a qpeng downpipe cut the decat pipe off and fit a mk4 GTi sports cat, then once thats done its pretty much what I said before, 16v box with abf flywheel and vr6 clutch, clutch cable parts from seat, AUM engine and turbo, 16v engine mounts, and a fmic intercooler and piping

Just got the car looking how I want it over the past week and got a jetex 16v catback fitted so all I need now is some money
Title: Re: 1.8t conversion. suspension and other bits
Post by: LazyLunatic on 22 August 2010, 18:04
Sweet deal :cool: