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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: rockored on 29 June 2010, 15:40

Title: STAGE 2??
Post by: rockored on 29 June 2010, 15:40
Hello all,
I have a '02 GTi (AUM). Its been remapped to 'about 200bhp' according to the tuner (not been dyno'd). It certainly feels like it so I dont doubt him.

Now looking at Stage 2 options.

If I go for full airtake/ full exhaust & stage2 remap what increase could I expect?

What other bits of kit would I need? I presume a R32 rear valence to take the exhaust, would I need new dump valve, fuel pump etc etc??



thanks in advance guys,

Nick.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: 2001gti4 on 29 June 2010, 16:05
You might want to contact R Tech direct for specific details
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: Hulmie on 29 June 2010, 16:47
R32 exhaust system is just for show. If you want power Milltek recommend either the 4 motion tailpipes or Anni tailpipe

Expect around 220bhp with Pipercross filter, Turbo back exhaust system with sports CAT, Forge turbo intake pipe, Forge 007p recirc valve and stage 2 remap
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: emery1990 on 29 June 2010, 17:25
Id ditch the exhaust and spend it on a fmic. Got to be nuts to go stage two without one. How long do you want 220bhp ? Not very long if you dont have a fmic to keep intake temps down!

Thats what r-tech recommend and they do stage two for you without a performance exhaust.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: Hulmie on 29 June 2010, 17:54
Im running a R-Tech AGU K03s spec2 remap on standard side mount intercooler. Pushing 231bhp & 256lb/ft torque.

If you dont have a good exhaust system the dont expect best power from your map as it'll be restricting the turbo spool.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: emery1990 on 29 June 2010, 18:07
True but doubt its much at all maybe 2-5bhp. Obviously more responsive though. Id still say defo get a fmic though.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: golf-sib on 29 June 2010, 19:46
True but doubt its much at all maybe 2-5bhp. Obviously more responsive though. Id still say defo get a fmic though.

FMIC is not even a stage 2 requirement, only real need for FMIC is track days, under normal driving and just quick strip runs, it will not really benifit you. On the track with all that heat under the bonnet things will start to take a different toll, which is were the performance will hit a decline.

It's all down to preference, do you want it for looks or a track day toy?

Plus remember the negatives of the IC, putting a bigger IC on will cause more restrcition than in a small IC (just because its bigger, does not make it better), which is where you need to weigh the pro's and cons of what the temperture of air is in the system vs ambient temperture outside to result in gains (if there are any or if under certain conditions). Then the climate in UK, only time the IC really plays a roll is in the summer were it's more than enough, whilst autumn ands winter its not needed due to the cool/cold air and it's density, which brings it back to trackday or just looks. Then there is other pointers to remember, what route are you taking in the bay, such as the same way as before ot over the rocker to accomadate the IC (which brings more heat into the equation), then there is the question about piping, you sticking to 50mm or going bigger, bigger piping and longer runs result in more lag... Then are you going to wrap it up to reduce heat etc...

Not having a dig, but its down to what you want, whether for looks, or no real need to trackdays.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: emery1990 on 29 June 2010, 19:57
I know your not having a dig :D just my opinion on it, i do think that it would benefit daily driving, stuck it traffic etc, my a3 1.8t used to bog down after a couple of hours driving, was okay in the winter, and that was running unmapped boost, i just think turning the boost up to mega boost is going to cause loads of heatsoak on the tiny smic. The standard intercoolers are going to start to heat up from the minute you go. exhaust being so hot and that, various people ive heard from who have fitted them said they didnt notice any more lag and said that their car just felt as responsive as it did first thing when theyve been driving around for a few hours. you can make them up yourself for around £300, £220 on the a3's. R-tech do say too have a fmic when going stage 2 and say it doesnt matter about exhaust too much.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: jamie16v on 29 June 2010, 20:06
well, since fitting my fmic i have noticed it brings inlet temps right down which is what you need to help avoid detonation and allow the air to be more dense. another thing to consider is to always run 97+ ron fuel. i usually stick to the tesco 99 momentum stuff, its oh and 99ron doesnt mean its better either. there is another rating to look out for apparently, i read somewhere, just cant remember what it was..lol
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: RTechUK on 29 June 2010, 20:21
The idea is to get the air flowing in faster and cooler, and get the gasses out quicker and cooler. and at the same time maintaining the best ignition advance and lambda.  The more mods the better.  For summer months a FMIC is need to maintain the power, but on a cold damp winters morning the car will be off its t@ts just with oem side mount.

Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: Wazzzer on 29 June 2010, 20:56
make sure you have ample air flow to your intercooler too  :embarassed:
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: rockored on 29 June 2010, 23:13
Not sure I made my self too clear in my original post.

When I said R32 I meant Anniversary, ie just the rear valence with the gap for an exhaust to poke out

I'd be looking at something like a full Miltek exhaust, Forge intake, that sort of stuff.

I know that will cost a grand at least.

What I want to know is what upgrade in power I can expect with a good stage 2 setup

I've gone 150bhp to 200bhp for £250

If going to 220bhp-ish is going to cost upwards of £1500, which is what it seems to me, it doesnt seem worth it.

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: golf-sib on 30 June 2010, 07:16
What engine code you got?

Stage 2 complete should take you 220-230 (k03 turbo will see you around the lower end more while the k03s more at the higher end), might be worth thinking about a bigger turbo like a k04-001 (direct fit) or k04-023 (needs some work) that should see you to the 260 mark. Otherwise it's more serious turbo's like GT28-RS and T4.... Other options if you have k03 turbo is going k03s or hybrid.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: LazyLunatic on 30 June 2010, 07:46
i have a small fmic and 2.5" piping and dont see much lag at all. After a long run when not just the engine bay but the entire front end feels like it on fire lol, it stills pulls just as hard, even on warm days. Does seem to run better too.

Just to add to info for this thread, I have a forge turbo intake, pipercross filter, 2.5" turbo back decat exhaust and a fmic. Running at 16psi and kicks out over 240bhp and 270+ft-lb torque.

 
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: Hulmie on 30 June 2010, 08:20
What engine code you got?

Stage 2 complete should take you 220-230 (k03 turbo will see you around the lower end more while the k03s more at the higher end), might be worth thinking about a bigger turbo like a k04-001 (direct fit) or k04-023 (needs some work) that should see you to the 260 mark. Otherwise it's more serious turbo's like GT28-RS and T4.... Other options if you have k03 turbo is going k03s or hybrid.

220bhp out of a K03 turbo  :lipsrsealed: Would like to see that
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: Rhyso on 30 June 2010, 08:36
What engine code you got?

Stage 2 complete should take you 220-230 (k03 turbo will see you around the lower end more while the k03s more at the higher end), might be worth thinking about a bigger turbo like a k04-001 (direct fit) or k04-023 (needs some work) that should see you to the 260 mark. Otherwise it's more serious turbo's like GT28-RS and T4.... Other options if you have k03 turbo is going k03s or hybrid.

220bhp out of a K03 turbo  :lipsrsealed: Would like to see that

I wouldn't - you'll end up like me; parked on a grass verge half a mile from GTI International  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: Hulmie on 30 June 2010, 08:48
What engine code you got?

Stage 2 complete should take you 220-230 (k03 turbo will see you around the lower end more while the k03s more at the higher end), might be worth thinking about a bigger turbo like a k04-001 (direct fit) or k04-023 (needs some work) that should see you to the 260 mark. Otherwise it's more serious turbo's like GT28-RS and T4.... Other options if you have k03 turbo is going k03s or hybrid.

220bhp out of a K03 turbo  :lipsrsealed: Would like to see that

I wouldn't - you'll end up like me; parked on a grass verge half a mile from GTI International  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yeh most likely.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: rockored on 30 June 2010, 16:35
What engine code you got?

Stage 2 complete should take you 220-230 (k03 turbo will see you around the lower end more while the k03s more at the higher end), might be worth thinking about a bigger turbo like a k04-001 (direct fit) or k04-023 (needs some work) that should see you to the 260 mark. Otherwise it's more serious turbo's like GT28-RS and T4.... Other options if you have k03 turbo is going k03s or hybrid.

AUM - is that K03 or K03s ?

cheers for the help so far guys.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: Rhyso on 30 June 2010, 16:41
AUM - is that K03 or K03s ?

cheers for the help so far guys.


 :smiley:
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: emery1990 on 30 June 2010, 19:23
Up to you if you think it's worth it though, save a grand by not fitting a turbo back? Maybe just get a custom down pipe as that's apparently where the restriction is. 240bhp from a ko3s at 16 psi, how did you get that figure, dyno machine?  A ma on the Audi forum was running mega high boost of 24psi with 230bhp, but 290lb torque, he did turn it down for his turbos sake, most agreed real figures for stage two are around 225bhp with 240lb.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: topher on 30 June 2010, 19:40
if you have a good turbo and no leaks you should see more than 240lbft with stage 2 really

imo the entire stock exhaust system is a restriction, but if you're being picky about things the standard exhaust manifold is even worse.

i love my fmic in this weather, i did 250 miles today and heatsoak wasn't an issue once!

..i realise that probably hasn't helped the original question :grin: i would say you need to do everything, doesn't have to be all at once but what's the point in going stage 2 if you can't use the power all the time?
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: golf-sib on 30 June 2010, 20:24
Up to you if you think it's worth it though, save a grand by not fitting a turbo back? Maybe just get a custom down pipe as that's apparently where the restriction is. 240bhp from a ko3s at 16 psi, how did you get that figure, dyno machine?  A ma on the Audi forum was running mega high boost of 24psi with 230bhp, but 290lb torque, he did turn it down for his turbos sake, most agreed real figures for stage two are around 225bhp with 240lb.

Downpipe will aid in spool, biggest restriction will be the cat itself more than the actual exhuast or downpipe.

Plus all the IC talk, a tall IC like the rad unit itself will probably be best for maximum airflow even in traffic especially when the fan kicks in on the rad, but if you hav AC pushing the rad back will be harder, due to the space under that bonnet. I know toyosport do a A4 IC which is only 50mm deep and a nice size if you want to push the rad back to fit it in, that's my plan.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: LazyLunatic on 30 June 2010, 23:49
Up to you if you think it's worth it though, save a grand by not fitting a turbo back? Maybe just get a custom down pipe as that's apparently where the restriction is. 240bhp from a ko3s at 16 psi, how did you get that figure, dyno machine?  A ma on the Audi forum was running mega high boost of 24psi with 230bhp, but 290lb torque, he did turn it down for his turbos sake, most agreed real figures for stage two are around 225bhp with 240lb.

runs aftermarket ecu and have two dyno prints out.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: emery1990 on 01 July 2010, 19:26
have you logged it ? to see what airflow your getting? Dynos arn't accurate now are they.
Title: Re: STAGE 2??
Post by: LazyLunatic on 01 July 2010, 21:19
have you logged it ? to see what airflow your getting? Dynos arn't accurate now are they.

dont have evidence of the boost levels, just what the engineering company that tuned the ecu told me it is running at. Will be fitting a boost gauge soon to keep an eye on it.

cant log it as i dont have the software or cable yet.