GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Khare on 18 June 2010, 23:35
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Got this code.
00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Never had it before. Ros tech wiki says this:
00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal
Possible Causes
Engine Speed Sensor (G28) Rotor loose/faulty
Engine Speed Sensor (G28) loose
Possible Solutions
Check Engine Speed Sensor (G28) Rotor
Tighten Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
Where is the engine speed sensor, what should the rotor look like and how to I tighten it up??
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On 16v engine - from underneath the car you'll see it on the lower right front of the block near gearbox. To change you need to support the engine, remove the starter bolts/engine mount/brackets to access and avoid rounding the allen bolt that holds it in place.
Not too sure what the pick up is (thinking flywheel) but implausible signal could be due to dodgy wiring as mine had:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=152789.msg1403858#msg1403858
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So you had problems with the earths under the battery tray?
Is the engine speed sensor the knock sensor? If it is then it may relate to the 2 misfires I had recently. I put tesco's 99 octane fuel in there and on two different occasions when suddenly flooring it, the car just bogs completely as if no spark was present. If I reapply throttle then it will pull away nicely. I'll clean up them earths tomorrow, I am having problems with the wiring system in the car, and both of the knock sensors are pretty oily, one of them has crap wiring AFTER the plug, on the engine loom side.
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The engine speed sensor (Crankshaft sensor) is different to a knock sensor. There are 2 knock sensors on these engines iirc and they basically detect the engine pre-detonating/misfiring from the 'knocking' and shaking the engine would produce when experiencing a fault.
Crank sensor basically picks up a reference point for TDC and sends this signal to the ECU to tell it when to make the coil spark.
Faulty crank sensor would cause a non-start, complete cut out etc. An intermittently faulty crank sensor may cause the problems you described and since its logged a fault it would be worth pursuing it further.
Check the wiring, if it looks happy then delete the fault codes. Road test it and when it happens again recheck the memory. The sensor could be on its way out.
Incidently, when the fault happened, did the engine cut out or revs drop down?
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You will probably find that the sensor has broken up where the wire goes into the head of the sensor,just changed mine 2 weeks ago and seems to have cured running issues (cutting out at any speed,flashing oil light) its worth getting a new crank sensor as they are a common issue with the mk3's especially 97 P reg ones,just as a warning tho, you will feel sick when you see what you get for the amount of money they cost,alot for not alot :grin:
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When it happened the revs just drop, no cutting out. I took my foot off the accelerator, re-applied and went alright.
Reasty, the engine is from a 97 R reg donor, however engine was made in 1996 according to the sticker on the cambelt cover. How much are the sensors new?
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Just saw the GSF price :sick:
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Just saw the GSF price :sick:
How much?
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£43.50 I think it was
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It's about £55 including vat from eurocarparts,if it's a 96 engine it probably is the AGG which are the engines that suffer with the crank sensors.
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It's about £55 including vat from eurocarparts,if it's a 96 engine it probably is the AGG which are the engines that suffer with the crank sensors.
It's an ABF mate.
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Derrrr course it is! :embarassed: ha ha didn't realise it was 16v Even tho there's a massive 16v scrollling across the screen :grin: sorry bud,well apariently the abf's also suffer from the crank sensors aswell.
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Thats a tad expensive don't you think!
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Thats a tad expensive don't you think!
Just a tad! It's a rip off, even in GSF terms!
I gave the earths under the battery tray a damn good clean today and a soak in WD40 so we shall see if that cures the problem. Looking at the sensor wiring there is no breaks or cuts, only on the part of the main engine loom, but that seems ok, although could be better.
Just a quick note though, the 3 earth points under the battery tray were all earthing on the same spot, should they be earthed separately like on the Leon's pic below?
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/01052010145.jpg)
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Get some pictures up of the suspect wiring chap. As Reasty said the wires break up more near the head of the sensor and its very hard to see that section without ripping stuff out.
Got mine from ECP made by Siemens and paid £50 odd and that was with garage discount :(
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The suspected wiring is this:
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/01062010372.jpg)
Badly focused on. Them two things you see in the yellow/red wire are some plastic shrink wraps protecting the soldering on the wire.
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The green wire entering the plug looks at a bit too much of an angle? Is it ok or is the picture funny? That section of the wiring could definately cuase your fault if the contact of the repair is poor. I would suggest with the engine running give the repaired section a gentle tug and move about to see if you can get the fault back.
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well once cleared the fault wouldn't come back, going to scan it again to see if it's back or not. If it's not I'll wiggle it and see what happens.
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Scanned and had the code show up, cleared, wiggled, scanned, nothing, did this 3 or 4 times and got no error codes. By the way, in the pic it looks at a strange angle but it's not. Is there any vagcom tests or some way of testing the sensor at the plug so I can confirm it is the sensor and not the wiring? Don't want to fork out £43.50 on something I don't need!
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Still happening. I presume I will need a new sensor soon. :sad:
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Aside from scoping it with the proper equpiment theres not much you can do except removing it and inspecting it or getting right under the car to have a good look.
Another test could be to find where the crank sensor wiring goes to from the plug picture you posted and find its earth/signal wire etc. Got a wiring diagram? Anyone! I'll see what I can come up with tmrw.
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Cheers mate. I'm sure someone will know where it grounds to.
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Have you checked to see if the Speed Sensor is loose. Its in a fiddly position behind the oil filter area and held in with an allen screw.
Also some ECU's throw this fault code up when you scan without the engine running.
If there is a fault I would expect the car to cut out or not start.
Paul
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1 - red/yel - ecu pin 68
2 - green/blk - ecu pin 67
3 - brn/blu - earth, in engine wiring harness.
I believe the earth is on the back of the head, or internal to the wiring loom to the main battery -ve. if in doubt, bare some insulation from the wire and solder a fresh earth to it, run to ground somewhere good :)
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Cheers Rubjonny! Mr. Khare, little tip, dont push something big into the hole of the ECU plug like a safety pin etc, try to match up a pin like on the ECU to test with, Ive had numerous come backs because some people have spread the contacts of the looms and when plugging it back in it doesnt make contact anymore.
Good advice by Paul as well, check that sensor is tight!
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Nice tip guys, thanks. I'll make sure it's tight then I'll check the wiring :smiley:
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1 - red/yel - ecu pin 68
2 - green/blk - ecu pin 67
3 - brn/blu - earth, in engine wiring harness.
I believe the earth is on the back of the head, or internal to the wiring loom to the main battery -ve. if in doubt, bare some insulation from the wire and solder a fresh earth to it, run to ground somewhere good :)
So I can just redirect the earth to a good ground anywhere on the engine and that would make a perfect earth?
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yep :)
Thats how it should be anyway, the earth for the crank sensor runs back inside the loom and is joined to an earth wire which runs to the battery or head, cant remember which off hand. its on the same wire as the inlet temp sensor earth.
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I see. Ok, well I will check the tightness of the sensor, then put a new earth from the plug to the head (do I have to chop the old earth or just tap into it?) and if it persists then new sensor time I guess.
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I would tap into the earth rather than chop it :)
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OK dude, I'll try that :smiley: :smiley: cheers!
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Right, I've made a new engine earth to replace the cam cover>ignition coil as the old one was pretty worn out, and also tapped into the earth of the engine speed sensor wiring. I've earthed it to a threaded stud next to the starter motor. Scanned with vagcom, cleared then took it for a drive. Even though the misfiring was occurring every so often especially when on load, the fault code didn't return after a drive around the area (it used to come back after driving the car just down the road literally). So for now I think it may be sorted and saved myself £50 for a new sensor. I'll use the car for a few more days and see if the mifiring comes back, and scan it with vagcom to see if the fault has reappeared. If not then I'll spend the money on a solid front engine mount as it needs replacing and I've heard very good things abut solid ones :smiley:
Again, John and Paul thanks a million for all the help as usual :smiley:
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Just saw the GSF price :sick:
Don't suppose you have the part number do you? I'm looking for a G28 engine speed sensor too but I'm not sure exactly which it is on GSF, I think it's the one in the link, can anyone confirm? It's for a Mk5 GTi
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/929vg0330
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Just saw the GSF price :sick:
Don't suppose you have the part number do you? I'm looking for a G28 engine speed sensor too but I'm not sure exactly which it is on GSF, I think it's the one in the link, can anyone confirm? It's for a Mk5 GTi
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/929vg0330
It would make it easier for yourself, if you posted in the right section. This is MK3 section, Not MK5.
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Just saw the GSF price :sick:
Don't suppose you have the part number do you? I'm looking for a G28 engine speed sensor too but I'm not sure exactly which it is on GSF, I think it's the one in the link, can anyone confirm? It's for a Mk5 GTi
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/929vg0330
It would make it easier for yourself, if you posted in the right section. This is MK3 section, Not MK5.
Sorry, I did know this when I posted, just thought rather than starting a new thread somebody who'd already bought the same part (albeit from a different year/mk) would have a decent idea if it was the same part in the link. I've asked a few places and seems a few are asking the same questions as me. Cheers.
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It's ok dude, just post in the MK5 section, surely someone would pop up who's been through this and can direct you in the right way. :wink: