GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: VWjon on 22 May 2010, 09:18
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So a "friend" had my car yesterday, owes me a favour, free MOT :laugh:
One of his lads did the MOT, checked my oil said it was near MIN and topped it up. I ask which oil he used. He said either 10W30 or 10W40 semi sythetic?
Now he only used to top up from min to max (1litre) but I had 5w30 in.
Is this going to cause me problems? I could have a go at him or his lad as I had the MOT for free, wasnt happy though.
From what I gather, the main difference is cold flow ability. The 5w30 will flow better when cover over the 10w30. Once operating temperature is achieved, they are virtually the same.
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You do not want semi-synthetic oil in you engine even just for topping up. In your position, I would get the oil changed asap.
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You do not want semi-synthetic oil in you engine even just for topping up. In your position, I would get the oil changed asap.
.......as above. Looks like the ''free'' m.o.t is going to cost you an oil & filter change now :angry:.Sorry mate. :cry:
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From various enqueries I have made and advice I have taken, Motul or Silkolene are the best engine oils available.
Motul Specific 504 00-507 00 5W30 is specifically for VAG Group cars. It is probably the best engine oil available. It is fully synthetic.
I wonder which company makes the engine oil that VW sells?
Have a look at the site below:
http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/section.php/69/2/5w-30
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well the car is due for its service soon, so looking like I will get it done this week.
How bad is this, should I not drive the car at all? kind of got me in a panic now guys :undecided:
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well the car is due for its service soon, so looking like I will get it done this week.
How bad is this, should I not drive the car at all? kind of got me in a panic now guys :undecided:
He's only topped up the oil level but with the wrong oil. The perfect idiot. Most of the oil in your car is still 5W30.
Did he not realise it was a turbocharged high performance engine?
Your engine should be fine as most the oil in it is synthetic 5W30.
Just don't thrash it until you get an oil and filter change. Do so ASAP.
Thankfully it is warm weather now so you won't have those cold winter starts, which are the worst for engine wear.
Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch. :smiley:
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Thanks for the advice, my mate owns the garage and owns ferraris etc, he got his lacky to do the mot and he topped the oil up. Worst thing is, he owns a golf himself, mk4 not sure what model.
I need a 4th service, had the brake fluid / pollen filter changed last year. So I only need an oil / filter change anyway.
Never been this paranoid about a car before, it must be love, lol.
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Just an update, Car currently in at dealers getting Long Life Oil / filter change + spark plugs
£140 all in.
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Just an update, Car currently in at dealers getting Long Life Oil / filter change + spark plugs
£140 all in.
Good you did this ASAP. :smiley:
Seems about the right cost.
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Spark plugs were not in stock so got to go back for them.
They put in magnatec 5W40, longlife spec.
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Spark plugs were not in stock so got to go back for them.
They put in magnatec 5W40, longlife spec.
Thats the wrong oil , it should be 504 00-507 00 5W30 longlife spec!! :wink:
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I wouldnt worry about it to much its not going to do any damage. as long as its changed enough i wouldnt worry. Thats good oil so its better. Its only like they say that 98 ron is best for the car but 95 is fine, wont do any damage.
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I disagree , no it wont do any damage still think you should have the correct oil in the engine!! :cool:
The question is why are dealers putting in the wrong oil????
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Spark plugs were not in stock so got to go back for them.
They put in magnatec 5W40, longlife spec.
Thats the wrong oil , it should be 504 00-507 00 5W30 longlife spec!! :wink:
After all the previous advice, you go and get the wrong oil poured in! :huh: :rolleyes: :shocked:
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Whats the difference between 5w30 and 5w40 then?
I thought that when I read the invoice.
It was a VW main dealer as well.
It said Oil change carried out to manuafacturers recomendations etc etc longlife Magnetec 5w40?
Any advice on this one?
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Steve30.... HELP! :laugh:
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Right, I paid the dealer to do a job so just phoned them.
After 5-10 mins of the girl speaking to service / parts, the invoice is showing the wrong oil booked out, it was 5W30 put in :smiley:
.... or are they fobbing me off :undecided:
No way to check is there?
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Right, I paid the dealer to do a job so just phoned them.
After 5-10 mins of the girl speaking to service / parts, the invoice is showing the wrong oil booked out, it was 5W30 put in :smiley:
.... or are they fobbing me off :undecided:
No way to check is there?
No way to check unfortunately, unless you get them to re-do the re-fill!
Perfect prats!
Well they invoiced you with the wrong oil, so now you have no confidence in them, and want it re-done or all your money back and you'll go somewhere else for a proper and honest job!
What's wrong with these people? :rolleyes:
It's an oil change, not a brain transplant! :sick: :angry:
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I think on this occasion I do believe them as there computer system did go down yesterday, as they couldnt get the spark plugs in for today.
They wont be servicing my car next time though.
I should have gone with the indy place I spoke to, seemed to know what they were on about, mentioned the uprated NK something sparks they fit instead of OEM
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I think on this occasion I do believe them as there computer system did go down yesterday, as they couldnt get the spark plugs in for today.
They wont be servicing my car next time though.
I should have gone with the indy place I spoke to, seemed to know what they were on about, mentioned the uprated NK something sparks they fit instead of OEM
Which dealer is it , name & shame them on here and contact VWCS tell them to get it right FFS :angry:
This dosn't sound right to me smells a bit fishy ???
A word of advice next time buy the oil yourself & filter get someone to do it for you or do it yourself!!
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Which dealer is it , name & shame them on here and contact VWCS tell them to get it right FFS :angry:
This dosn't sound right to me smells a bit fishy ???
A word of advice next time buy the oil yourself & filter get someone to do it for you or do it yourself!!
+++++1. I am with you 100%.
Very fishy. They are not using long life oil. Buggers.
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I am planning on ringing back tomorrow, asking for the service manager, explaining the situation. Seeing what he / she says.
See it may be a genuine mistake on the system and they used the correct oil, 5w40 probably would be next to 5w30 on a list. But its no excuse really.
Ive gone into the dealer for a oil / filter service to retify this very problem, so putting my trust in a main dealer. this mistake just adds to my paranoia.
I am going to see how he can assure me (In writing) the correct oil was put in and if any related problems arise they will fix them free of charge, if not I would like a 100% refund to get the job carried out again elsewhere.
What do you guys recon?
Can someone post VWCS number / email please.
I will name and shame after I have given them a chance to sort this out. Especially as I know at least one member here uses the same dealer!
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VWjon: They could quite easily have used 5W40 oil.
So don't let them off the hook. Get the oil changed make sure they use 5W30.
Read the link below:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=65779.0
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I know......
It gets worse, checked my invoice against last years service at the same dealership, last time they used the correct oil (castrol prof slxiii - on invoice).
Though something caught my eye, as part of the service they check tyre tread limits, apparently I have special tyres on my golf as they have grown rubber 4mm in places! Compared to last years service, and ive never changed tyres.
So this time for £90 oil / filter service they:
Messed up the oil / filter change
Guessed at the express visual check
Basically I got mugged for £90, I have phoned already today, but the service manager is unavailable. I want a full refund on this. Once sorted I will name the dealer.
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I know......
It gets worse, checked my invoice against last years service at the same dealership, last time they used the correct oil (castrol prof slxiii - on invoice).
Though something caught my eye, as part of the service they check tyre tread limits, apparently I have special tyres on my golf as they have grown rubber 4mm in places! Compared to last years service, and ive never changed tyres.
So this time for £90 oil / filter service they:
Messed up the oil / filter change
Guessed at the express visual check
Basically I got mugged for £90, I have phoned already today, but the service manager is unavailable. I want a full refund on this. Once sorted I will name the dealer.
I would inform them that your going through VWCS and they may well be docked points, also your going to shame them on here. These dealers need to be brought into line :cool:
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Still not getting anywhere, twice ive called now, and the invisible service manager cannot be found, even though they are all working out of a portacabin as the dealers getting a refurb! :rolleyes:
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Still not getting anywhere, twice ive called now, and the invisible service manager cannot be found, even though they are all working out of a portacabin as the dealers getting a refurb! :rolleyes:
Just call VWCS now, complain bitterly, name and shame the stealer immediately and stop wasting your time trying to talk to the Service Monkey. :angry:
They have fcuked up royally on something as simple as an oil change. Makes me mad and upset for you. :angry:
All the best.
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Right.... Before I start I always believe in hearing someones side of the story, giving them a chance etc
Service manager rang me back, explained he had spoken to the techie who did the job, the longlife oil castrol professional SLXiii (504/507 spec) comes from a pump on the wall, the 5W40 comes from a barrel located in their parts dept. The techie definatly used the wall pump, 100% sure he put the SLXiii in. For the other oil to be put in he would have had to get it from parts dept.
An amendment saying this has been put on the original invoice and sent out to me in writing (This covers me for any future problems IMO)
He also said if im still unsure he stands by what he said and for me to get an independant lab test on the oil. Again reasuring.
He understood as you guys do, I sent it in for someone using the wrong oil, explaining my paranoyia a VW dealer invoiced the wrong oil.
As for the tyres I mentioned this, feeling I had not had what I paid for, he appolgised, agreed as I he had all my previous paper work in front of him and said next time I'm near I could have a full VW inspection check.
Yes it may still be a bit fishy and any one of us could have the wrong oil put in and not even tell us, there has to be a trust with the garage. I've given him a chance to explain, and he sounded a genuine chap and made sure the correct oil has been used.
Will I use them in the future..... No as the 100% trust isnt there anymore.
The dealer in question is Wolverhampton Volkswagon, which im sure stealthwolf uses. http://www.trustgroupuk.com/ They also cover stourbridge and Redditch.
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Okay mate , next time do the job yourself , I buy the oil and get my local mechanic to do it he charges £20 in all total cost about £60-70 for a piece of mind enjoy hope the cars is good. :cool:
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Cheers Steve for the advice, again the forum unites :laugh:
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Cheers Steve for the advice, again the forum unites :laugh:
No problems anytime!! :cool:
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No mate, I use VW Solihull. But don't use VW Birmingham - very rude and not very helpful.
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No mate, I use VW Solihull. But don't use VW Birmingham - very rude and not very helpful.
Why is this Sh**y dealership getting away with murder around decent customers??? :sick:
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No mate, I use VW Solihull. But don't use VW Birmingham - very rude and not very helpful.
Why is this Sh**y dealership getting away with murder around decent customers??? :sick:
TURDS! :sick:
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Stealth - Have you ever tried Midland VW in cannock? seem to know what they are on about after a quick chat, wished I would have took it there. But its all sorted now. I remember when I was looking around for a GTi, Birmingham VW I agree were rude and couldnt even be bothered.
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Him saying to get the oil lab tested wouldnt put my mind at ease - who the feck is gonna go to that length, or know where to get it tested - i sure as hell wouldnt know without having to google lots and no doubt part with even more money and waste even more time - he knows that too so IMO its just a fob off.
For what a few litres of oil would have cost them i'd have wanted them to have changed it again as a gesture of good will - in real terms its gonna cost them next to nothing and you might then actually go back, instead they've lost your custom for good and as a result of you posting the outcome here i dare say a number of other potential customers will now not touch them with a barge pole - the overall cost to them is considerable really and short sighted on their part.
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Him saying to get the oil lab tested wouldnt put my mind at ease - who the feck is gonna go to that length, or know where to get it tested - i sure as hell wouldnt know without having to google lots and no doubt part with even more money and waste even more time - he knows that too so IMO its just a fob off.
For what a few litres of oil would have cost them i'd have wanted them to have changed it again as a gesture of good will - in real terms its gonna cost them next to nothing and you might then actually go back, instead they've lost your custom for good and as a result of you posting the outcome here i dare say a number of other potential customers will now not touch them with a barge pole - the overall cost to them is considerable really and short sighted on their part.
+1. They are full of sh!t and it would cost an arm and a leg to get the oil tested probably. :sick:
I have a good mind to name and shame them on the Mk6 forum. :angry:
PS: Steve30, should we do this?
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For heavens sake gents.
A 5W40 is perfectly suited for a MK5 GTI.
Dont think that only 5W30 can be used. We have track GTI's running 10W60 racing spec oil.
We have stealers dumping 5W20 into modified GTI's in South Africa for their clients. And SLX is perfectly fine for your GTI. Its a simple 2.0T - Not a Veyron.
Look in your manual. In the back you will see an oil chart. There you will see the different oils and specs required for your car. If you live in Dubai your oil will be different to someone living in Alaska. Look at the chart. Different oil grades for different climates. Where you guys are is a mutual climate. Therefore anything works as long as it is on tat chart.
So stop fretting.
The only time you should be stressing is when your car is running a fully synthetic and anything but the exact same spec/brand is used for a top up. YOU CANNOT MIX FULLY SYNTHETIC OILS. These oils are ester based oils.
With a basic hydrocracked oil like SLX you can effectively top up with anything except a fully synthetic oil. In other words. Most of your GTI's which are probably all running SLX etc which are predominantly hydrocracked oils can be top up with pretty much anything as long as it has the correct VW spec for the car as found in your manual. Be it 505 01 for TDI engines or 505 /507 for the turbo cars. Even if its a mineral oil as long as it has the right spec its fine. Why? Simple. A hydrocracked oil (SLX for example) is simply a highly processed mineral oil. And since they are the same bases (PAG/PAO or group 3/group 4) oils they can all be mixed.
And before you all rant at me. I work in the oil industry and managed Liqui Moly for over a year in Cape Town in SA. I know my oils and how the work etc.
Mike
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Oh... And getting oils tested is cheaper then replacing it.
In SA we charge R200 for an overnight oil test. Thats all of 17 pounds. I assure you its no more expensive to test where you are.
Am1W and Steve30.
Get off your high horses. Dealers screw up. I once supplied a customer 5W30 for his E39 M5 when the car can only take a race spec 10W60 fully Synthetic. The customer called me and double checked before using the oil and I realised my fault. That after a 10W60 was invoiced and signed out of the building yet the wrong product left. Sh*t happens.
I do agree though that the way the dealer dealt with it is pretty bad.
Mike
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And if you want to be especially distrusting... Supply your own oil and insist on seeing the empty cans.
That said. You should never ever receive empty cans back.
Ag... Why dont you supply your own consumables too?
Mike
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And if you want to be especially distrusting... Supply your own oil and insist on seeing the empty cans.
That said. You should never ever receive empty cans back.
Ag... Why dont you supply your own consumables too?
Mike
And the whole point was that they charged him for 5W30 504 00 which costs them and the customer more but may have poured 5W40 which is cheaper and not what is specified by VW anymore in this country for his particular car.
I am sure we should all be very pleased & assured to have an oil expert on the forum. :smiley:
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Am1w -
I have stayed off the point because I have noticed that you and a few other members keep rambling on about 5W30 and lets face it. This thread was started because VW used a 5W40 which made all of you go into a flat spin.
I am correcting you.
And how can a 5W40 not be suitable for in your country in this car? Usually when the operating viscosity of the oil is lower it is for countries with higher temps. You guys should be able to use either with no problem whatsoever.
And since when is SLX more expensive then 5W40? We import from Germany and every 5W40 we stock from Liqui Moly to Royal Purple etc is more expensive then their respective 5W30's be it from America or even Sweden. How odd that its cheaper.
Mike
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The oil on the invoice was a semi-synthetic.
Modern Vw's use a fully synthetic oil.
Micsta08 - leave the oils to your Dad, OK? You are just showing yourself up, really.
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Semi synthetic / Hydrocracked - Very similar with the exception of hydrocracked usually has better spec.
It depends on dealers. Out of the 10 odd dealers I serviced none of them used Fully Synthetics. Same for BMW unless it was in an M car. Mercedes used the worst oils... Cheap stuff with old spec.
Nosh - Dont you have a bridge to go troll under?
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The oil on the invoice was a semi-synthetic.
Modern Vw's use a fully synthetic oil.
Micsta08 - leave the oils to your Dad, OK? You are just showing yourself up, really.
For me its about getting the oil right in the first place, No one is getting on any high horse pal, what's happening in the UK is that a lot of dealers do take the pi** with Customers and charging megga price's for work thats not being done as it should be. Thats my point, if going to do the job then do it right!! :cool:
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Wow ive opened a can of worms with this one :laugh:
Simple facts guys.
Mate gave free MOT - Topped up with semi-sythetic oil onto of my existing fully sythetic 5W30 oil = Wrong and needed sorting.
Main VW dealer - Had car to recifiy above problem with oil / filter service, invoice of work showed 5W40 which is fully sythetic just not the 5W30 oil I asked for.
VW dealer IMO did a poor service in other respects, didnt get my moneys worth at all, convienced / reasured me enough the correct oil was put in, but should of had to in the first place. This amendment is also coming in the post in the form of an adjusted invoice, IMO covering me for any related problem, plus it suggested the oil test, so I am sure they put the correct oil in.
Wouldnt use Wolverhampton VW again, and feel free to copy this to the other forum.
Mike: You cannot mix fully sythetic oils? ie mixing 5w30 with 5w40? im new to all this oil lark and interested, surely they are viturally the same as the 30 / 40 numbers represent the viscosity at high running temp of 100 degrees?
Thanks to all for their comments, steve, a1mw, mike etc
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Hey there VWJon
Let me explain quickly.
Semi Synthetic / Hydrocracked oils are group 3 and 4 oils. These are know as PAO's and PAG's.
Now a semi synthetic is a mineral oil base with synthetic properties (Group 3). The same goes for a hydrocracked oil. The only difference is that a hydrocracked oil is superior to a semi synthetic because it is hydrotreated which means it far more refined making it a group 4 oil. Because both group 3 and group 4 oils are derived from a mineral base you can safely mix them assuming the technical data sheet of the oil says so even if its a different grade.
A Fully Synthetic oil (depending on brand) is not derived from a mineral base. Its base is a synthetic base and this makes it a group 5 oil. Essentially you could call it a "man made oil" because fully synthetics are designed to be specific. They are created from base up to perform much better then lesser group 3 and 4 oils. If oils were cars. The group 3 and 4 oils would be an Audi A4 and BMW 3 series. The group 5 would be a Bugatti Veyron.
Because fully synthetics have such tight parameters within them you cant mix them unless your mix the same brand and grade. In other words. You cannot mix a 5W30 with a 5W40 if you are running fully synthetic even if its the same brand. Only the same oil can be used in a top up. if you dont you end up with either mixed or boundary lubrication. Mixed meaning that the two oils actually cause each other to break down meaning that you get maybe only 60% to 40% of the possible 100% lubrication within the engine. Boundary meaning that there is a complete breakdown of the hydrodynamic film of oil within the engine. In other words. Your oil becomes useless or only partially effective at lubricating.
The 30 and 40.
You are correct. This refers to the viscosity of an oil at operating temperature. In simple terms. 40 is thicker then 30 etc. As mentioned previously. The GTI will happily run a 5W40 with no problems. The reason it is better and why the dealers use a 5W30 is because it is cheaper then most 5W40's. And for economical reasons.
There are over 360 moving parts in an engine surrounded by a film of oil. The thicker the oil. The more internal Resistance. More resistance means more friction which means higher temps which means your thermostat needs to work harder. It isnt a huge difference but going from a 5W40 to 5W30 your will notice the engine is revvier, provides better fuel economy and is a little louder. That said. These differences are fractional. Unless you are truly insync with the car you wont even notice a difference.
Hope this helps?
Mike
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Nice one mike that helps alot and im sure helps others understand here.
You know your stuff.
Just got to trust the dealers put 5w30 in if I ever have to top up the oil with my spare 5w30 1 litre bottle.
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Hey there VWJon
Let me explain quickly. :rolleyes:
...... Because fully synthetics have such tight parameters within them you cant mix them unless your mix the same brand and grade. In other words. You cannot mix a 5W30 with a 5W40 if you are running fully synthetic even if its the same brand. Only the same oil can be used in a top up. if you dont you end up with either mixed or boundary lubrication. Mixed meaning that the two oils actually cause each other to break down meaning that you get maybe only 60% to 40% of the possible 100% lubrication within the engine. Boundary meaning that there is a complete breakdown of the hydrodynamic film of oil within the engine. In other words. Your oil becomes useless or only partially effective at lubricating.
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... and that is why he needs to be 100% sure whether they poured fully synthetic 5W40 or 5W30 into his engine! :rolleyes:
But thank you, anyway, for the very informative and much appreciated lectures which eventually got the point! I am glad the forum provided you with an appropriate platform.
BTW, do you specialize in flat spins? You seem to know much about this! :wink:
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Hey there VWJon
Let me explain quickly. :rolleyes:
...... Because fully synthetics have such tight parameters within them you cant mix them unless your mix the same brand and grade. In other words. You cannot mix a 5W30 with a 5W40 if you are running fully synthetic even if its the same brand. Only the same oil can be used in a top up. if you dont you end up with either mixed or boundary lubrication. Mixed meaning that the two oils actually cause each other to break down meaning that you get maybe only 60% to 40% of the possible 100% lubrication within the engine. Boundary meaning that there is a complete breakdown of the hydrodynamic film of oil within the engine. In other words. Your oil becomes useless or only partially effective at lubricating.
.
... and that is why he needs to be 100% sure whether they poured fully synthetic 5W40 or 5W30 into his engine! :rolleyes:
But thank you, anyway, for the very informative and much appreciated lectures which eventually got the point! I am glad the forum provided you with an appropriate platform.
BTW, do you specialize in flat spins? You seem to know much about this! :wink:
Once again. As mentioned originally. My response to this thread is not whether they used the correct oil. My original rant was caused by members here of which you are one telling members that only a 505, 507 spec 5W30 can be used in your GTI. This is untrue. You can use anything from a 5W20 to a 10W60 depending on mods and vehicle usage.
I see no reason for your post above. It is unnecessary considering that the OP (VWjon) asked a specific question to which I provided an answer with regards to whether a 5W30 could be mixed with a 5W40 if the two oils are fully synthetic.
Not a flat spin. Just a member here who likes helping others and sharing the knowledge he has.
Mike
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It dosnt really matter this much does it ??? i think the fact he toped up with the wrong oil dosnt really matter as some oil is better than no oil... and these cars arnt F1 cars so oil grade really does not matter that much... as long as the oil in it is all the same thumbs up no problem. Im sure there are bigger problems to solve than this :shocked:
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Once again. As mentioned originally. My response to this thread is not whether they used the correct oil. My original rant was caused by members here of which you are one telling members that only a 505,504, 507 spec 5W30 can be used in your GTI. This is untrue. You can use anything from a 5W20 to a 10W60 depending on mods and vehicle usage.
I see no reason for your post above. It is unnecessary considering that the OP (VWjon) asked a specific question to which I provided an answer with regards to whether a 5W30 could be mixed with a 5W40 if the two oils are fully synthetic.
Not a flat spin. Just a member here who likes helping others and sharing the knowledge he has.
Mike
I have no problem with you sharing your vast knowledge and experience for which I am sure many of us are eternally grateful. However, I did feel that you did so with an unnecessarily arrogant attitude tinged with typical rudeness. This needed to be addressed.
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Edited - Please read below.
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Actually.
Rather dont bother responding. If you want to then do it via PM please.
Im not arguing about something as trivial as this. Besides that - we are causing this thread to go off topic.
Please accept my humble apology for the above arrogance and rudeness.
I hope we may be friends again. :kiss:
Mike
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Typical rudeness?
Please elaborate? I agree my original post was strong worded. Thereafter it was purely information.
If you are referring to me telling you and Steve to get off your high horses then I regret I wont be addressing that as the way you dealt with the original problem of "poor dealership service" was uncalled for. It is not your duty to slander a dealership for making a mistake. I felt the OP took a very understanding stance whereas you wanted to "name and shame".
That said... This is the reason I stopped posting on this forum. I am active on over 5 forums providing technical info on oils and joining in to learn and share my passion for cars in general. The members on those forums value the input of others and dont get uptight because someone appeared to be arrogant to them when telling them they were wrong.
This is something this forum has taught me as I have been a member here for over 2 years and dont even own a GTI.
I apologize if my posts come across as arrogant and as for my typical rudeness I look forward to your elaboration.
Mike
Apologies accepted and may I also apologise for going into a flat spin!
High horse. Heaven forbid. More of a drunk donkey!
I enjoy your posts, so keep them coming!
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:wink:
Not a problem.
Now... Share the wine. I also want to fall off the donkey :grin:
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:wink:
Not a problem.
Now... Share the wine. I also want to fall off the donkey :grin:
Still at work and cannot wait to skin the bloody animal!
:wink: :laugh:
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Just a quick update - No amendment of invoice / letter has yet been recieved from the dealer.
Phoned dealer - Theses service managers are always in meetings :huh:
Had a VW customer service dealer survey call last night, asking me if I'm ok to answer a few questions about my recent visit to wolverhampton VW, and boy did I :evil:
Now to call VW CS and let them know just how bad this dealer is.
AVOID WOLVERHAMPTON VW