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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Wrighty_1988 on 20 April 2010, 21:25

Title: 4 sidelights
Post by: Wrighty_1988 on 20 April 2010, 21:25
Hey, ive been wanting to do this for a while. Ive put an extra two sidelights in my driving lamps :D.

Pics:

(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/3173/img0098g.jpg)

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5628/img0101qq.jpg)

Both sidelights:

(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9132/img0103bq.jpg)
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: dan7 on 20 April 2010, 22:34
 :huh:....each to their own, I guess!!!
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 01:01
Is that Legal??
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: peaky83 on 21 April 2010, 08:43
Errrrm.... Why? :huh:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: rubjonny on 21 April 2010, 08:46
nope certainly not legal. the reason the inner spots dont come on with the sidelights in is becasue the lenses dont project the correct beam pattern. you'll blind everyone coming the other way. H4 lights are designed specifically to have a cutoff beam pattern when the dipped beams are on.  Take them out, do the world a favor ;)

those seem a bit bright to be sidelights, what bulbs did you use?
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Wayne on 21 April 2010, 08:56
Sorry but that is plain daft and illegal.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: peaky83 on 21 April 2010, 09:45
I wonder why nobody else has done this...!  :grin:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: dubber36 on 21 April 2010, 13:09
nope certainly not legal. the reason the inner spots dont come on with the sidelights in is becasue the lenses dont project the correct beam pattern. you'll blind everyone coming the other way. H4 lights are designed specifically to have a cutoff beam pattern when the dipped beams are on. 



Lots of cars have parking light bulbs in their main beam headlights. Mk old Mk4 Golf, Leon, B5.5 Passat to name the last 3 that I have owned.

What about Audis with pre LED DRL's. They had 15W bulbs in main beam reflectors.

5W bulbs aren't going to dazzle anyone. I think they look alright.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: rubjonny on 21 April 2010, 14:31
the difference is, those lights are designed for it. the spot lights are not. note how mk2 main lights are combined dip/main beam H4 units, the spot lights are not.

MK4 golf is a completly different kettle of fish, have you ever actually looked at one? they may have a big glass lamp but if you actually look inside you'll note that all the lamps are seperate from each other
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: dubber36 on 21 April 2010, 15:23
the difference is, those lights are designed for it. the spot lights are not. note how mk2 main lights are combined dip/main beam H4 units, the spot lights are not.

MK4 golf is a completly different kettle of fish, have you ever actually looked at one? they may have a big glass lamp but if you actually look inside you'll note that all the lamps are seperate from each other

My point exactly, and yes, after 3 years of owning a Mk4 I do know what the headlights look like. The parking light bulb is within the main beam reflector on a Mk4 Golf as well as most other newer cars on the road. Separate main beam reflectors like this are essentially spot lights.

Here's another one then. Trucks. A huge percentage of then have aftermarket spot lights. 8 seems to be a acceptable amount :laugh: and most of them have parking light bulbs in them from new. Do they dazzle?
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: peaky83 on 21 April 2010, 15:35
I think theres some onfusion here...

RJ is saying there is a single bulb in the middle spots, and fro what he's said he is assuming those are the bulbs being used as sidelights.

Dubber you are coming from another angle that he has added some parking bulbs to the centre spots as well as the high beam bulbs already there...? :wink:

Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: dubber36 on 21 April 2010, 15:46


Dubber you are coming from another angle that he has added some parking bulbs to the centre spots as well as the high beam bulbs already there...? :wink:



Nail on the head. As he says in his original post,

Ive put an extra two sidelights in my driving lamps :D.


 :smiley:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: rubjonny on 21 April 2010, 15:47
yeah I assumed he had modded some h4s into the outer spots, as they looked way too bright to be normal sidelight bulbs. looking again i can see what looks like a sidelight bulb in the bottom so i guess thats the way he did it?  Should be ok as long as they arnt uber bright
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: peaky83 on 21 April 2010, 15:49
See so you were in fact both right in what you were saying  :wink: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 16:00
I would still say they are illegal...

Guess he will find out when Plod feels his collar... Or it fails it's MOT...
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: peaky83 on 21 April 2010, 16:10
Why would it be illegal, after all its only like the bmw's having 2 sets of angel eyes side lights each side...?
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: rubjonny on 21 April 2010, 16:12
id say it depends on the brightness of them, if just using same wattage bulbs as the oem sidelights then it should be ok. main thing is does it dazzle other road users
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 16:16
Cos they are driving lamps only...

They are not meant to be used as side lights...

and as RJ says they have no regulated light pattern...

Lots of peeps fit HID's to MK2's but they are illegal too... as they don't have washers fitted...
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: peaky83 on 21 April 2010, 16:24
Washers as in headlamp washers? if not what do you mean? and why are they illegal?
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 16:27
Yes headlamp washers...

I don't know exactly the reason why... all I know is that HID's are only meant to be fitted to cars that have A Headlight washer system fitted...

A member on the Audi S2 Forum is a MOT tester and he posted a link to the DVLA/MOT regulations and thats what it says...

I was really peed as I wanted to fit them to my MK2... after I fitted 'em to my S2...
 
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: dubber36 on 21 April 2010, 16:39
HIDs are a totally different kettle of fish.

Strictly speaking they need to be fitted in headlights designed for the job. Certainly not reflector lamps like Mk2 Golfs. They should have washers to prevent dirt on the lenses diverting the beam pattern and automatic levelling to keep the beam at the right angle, not only to compensate for load, but the undulations of the road as well.

The fact that the OP has fitted 5W parking light bulbs into his spot lights is no different to newer cars with them fitted into their main beam lamps. I think I may have already said that last bit. :smiley: 
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 16:53
The fact that the OP has fitted 5W parking light bulbs into his spot lights is no different to newer cars with them fitted into their main beam lamps. I think I may have already said that last bit. :smiley: 

You are "ASSUMING" he has only fitted 5W bulbs...

TBH they look too bright for 5W for me..

At the end of the day it's his car, his MOT and his licence...

So do I really care... Not Really...

I'll not be rushing to fit any to mine...:rolleyes:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: dubber36 on 21 April 2010, 17:13
Your right, I am assuming.

D'you know what, even before I read your last post I had thought Christ, is this thread still going. It only started with a bloke wanting to show us a mod he was quite pleased with. I'm board now.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 17:28
Think my last post shows that I'm also bored with it....
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: peaky83 on 21 April 2010, 17:43
+1
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Dolly on 21 April 2010, 18:36
Yes headlamp washers...

I don't know exactly the reason why... all I know is that HID's are only meant to be fitted to cars that have A Headlight washer system fitted...

A member on the Audi S2 Forum is a MOT tester and he posted a link to the DVLA/MOT regulations and thats what it says...

I was really peed as I wanted to fit them to my MK2... after I fitted 'em to my S2...
 

Wrong

Optional Lamps Any additional position lamps are optional and are not included in the inspection.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Dolly on 21 April 2010, 18:38
also wrong about head light washers, got jack to do with MOT i can guarantee you that.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 20:39
Suggest you read this then....

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps

Quote
Aftermarket HID (Xenon) headlamps
Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps
December 2006
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.

The following is the legal rationale:

The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.

However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:

1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.

2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).

3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:

1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.

2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.

3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.

If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:

Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 20:46
Quote
I much prefer testing cars with HIDs fitted (in projector lenses), far clearer beam image!!

The criteria for headlamp testing is here:http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_120.htm

Legally they can only be fitted to vehicles with headlamp washers and auto levelling- but thats not part of an MOT- thats for the police to decide.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Dolly on 21 April 2010, 20:55
and i suggest you read my post... its got nothing to do with MOT, smart ass
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 21 April 2010, 21:30
and i suggest you read my post... its got nothing to do with MOT, smart ass

Ditto about fitting to cars without Headlight washers....

We are both Correct.... :nerd:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Dolly on 21 April 2010, 22:25
 :kiss:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Jay on 21 April 2010, 22:38
That's UK Legislation... EU legislation over rides UK legislation and iirc DH has pointed out that EU Leg. says nothing about washers, but it is c@ntish to blind other road users with aftermarket HID's.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: bodga on 21 April 2010, 22:49
I had an 04 laguna with these zenons fitted, auto leveling and headlamp washers. When it was new they were brilliant but with 5 years use and 125k put on the clock, the lamp glass became yellow over time and like a dust film on the inside of the glass (plastic) auto leveling system failed ( headlamps pointing too far down) booked it in at the dealer and they manually adjusted them (no more auto levelling!) passed MOT like this. headlamp washers used to empty the washer bottle quicker than you could fill it. seemed pointless to me. and to top it all, dealer swapped a side lamp bulb for me, didnt refit the bulb cover properly, moisture got in and wrecked the zenon transformer! £300 for a new headlamp complete. glad it was a company car LOL. are these worth it to see a bit better :undecided: and you can get really good H4s, also fit the relay mod to the headlamps on you mk2. it makes them a lot brighter :grin: aftermarket HIDs just blind everyone
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: X4MGS on 22 April 2010, 00:12
:kiss:

 :kiss:

 :sick:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Wrighty_1988 on 11 July 2010, 22:33
Ruddy hell, i posted this and forgot about it. Wasnt expecting it to turn into a 4 page post lol. They are 5w sidelights in the driving lamps the reason they look super bright is because of the low lighting and the iphone camera lol. In person they are a lovely dim yellow glow.

£1.80 for two sidelights off ebay, some spare lamps and some bullet connectors :D. If they ever do attract the wrong attention, which i dont think they would, just pop the connectors and their gone :). TBH i thought it was a good idea, lots of cars have them and havent seen it done on here before. I might become a trend setter :D!!!!
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: cняis on 11 July 2010, 22:38
Cos they are driving lamps only...

They are not meant to be used as side lights...

and as RJ says they have no regulated light pattern...

Lots of peeps fit HID's to MK2's but they are illegal too... as they don't have washers fitted...

MOT testers dont test the beam pattern projected from the SIDE LIGHT bulbs do they  :wink:
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: Diamond Hell on 11 July 2010, 23:32
I quite like the mod.

Not sure how I missed the thread previously though - there's a lot of people in here spouting shyte.  :grin:

HIDs need to be behind E-marked glass designed for HID units only - as Jay's said, EU legislation overrides UK laws on this.
Title: Re: 4 sidelights
Post by: danny_p on 12 July 2010, 00:39
i cant see anything wrong with putting 5w sidelight bulbs in the ceter spots. 

really think a 5w bulb is going to dazzel anyone,  don't even matter that the lights wernt desinged for it as when you think about it it's no diffrent to how the sidelights are done in the main headlight  as teh bulb is so small there is no need to shroud it liek the dip beam fillament in a H4