GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: StephenEggo on 13 November 2004, 22:15
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I was wondering what is better in terms of performance,handling and all round ability between these cars. I own a 16v and I think it is way better that a 205 Gti but is it?
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Depends who's driving ::)
1.9 205 Pug is mightily quick, but it's French and falls to bits ;D
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stick with the 16 valve. my mate has had both 1.6 and 1.9 205's they are fast handled well but i'd have a golf any day
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Which 205 GTI do you meen mate?
the 1.6 or the 1.9??
i would say that performance wise the 1.9GTI would have the 1.816V, but that doesnt really amount to much if the engine blows up shortly after over taking you :D.
the golf would kill the roly poly french crap on the twisties, and for overall ability once again the golf is the winner.
2 cult classic GTI's, pity the pugs are put together like sh!t though eh :D
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Have to disagree. The 1.9 Pug 205 would kick the arse of a 16v in the hands of a decent driver. The sh!tty frog-box is renound as being one of the best handling hot-hatches of its time, as many Peugeots since have also been.
That doesn't mean I'd have one mind. They aint exactly built to last.
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I meant to say the 1.9 205 gti. Would the pug beat the 16v in a straight line in standard form? My mate had a 16v with hi-lift cams with a gas flowed head and he used to toast 1.9 gtis. Even the civic type R only marginally pulled on him.
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yeah those 1.9gti's are quick, id say better at cornering than 16v, better 0-60 by a fraction, but only 125bhpish and 8v. its a pity there arent any left to race on the roads :P they all rusted and fallen apart :D if the build quality was anywhere near as good as a mk2 id get one
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Yeah i would agree on the overall build quality of a Peugeot of that age is appaling, I have a 309 Goodwood which i have been bringing back 2 best but the paint is no way near like a vw factory job. Also the nice ppl @ peugeot have made nearly everything obsolete or impossible 2 get hold of.... I would say speed both cars are very capeable and a race would be interesting.... but if he beat you to 100 then hes not gonna keep up @ 135mph now is he!!
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to be honest, i can't remember a 1.9GTI beating my valver. they got despatched with the usual regularity.
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Also the nice ppl @ peugeot have made nearly everything obsolete or impossible 2 get hold of....
I think you'll find that the nice people at VW are in the process of doing the same to the MK2 Golf.
if he beat you to 100 then hes not gonna keep up @ 135mph now is he!!
LOL, no but he'll probably still be alongside with his speedo reading 125 while yours says 135. MK2 speedos are notoriously inaccurate at high speeds.? 8)
In a straight line I think it would take a fair old length of time spent driving to separate the 2. But don't forget, every mile that you do the Pug gets lighter and lighter as bits fall off or burn out... ;D
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Hummm not so bad just trim bits its not like you cant get an oil pipe for an MI16 obsolete!! French b''#trds. I work for vw and it will be a fair while yet b4 the majoroty of parts aren't availiable for a mk2. Just the interior bit that will suffer.
Put a Mi16 in a 205 then your talkin!!
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I understand that the 309 GTI (same engine) is the one to have if you want a car that handles. Apparently it is more neutral. I do remember doing an indicated 130mph behind the wheel of one. I was saved from buying it when it was stolen the day before I took delivery. Lucky escape? Also it was no looker. :-\
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I don't remember much blowing my golf away ;D
there was that ferrari the other day though >:(
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Think you guys should go look at the Peugeot Sport Club.
Huge membership and nearly all 205's!
Yes an Mi 16 conversion is very popular, that why i hate the bast@rds coz thats my car!LOL
Ya can easily get 250bhp out of the 8v anyway!
And its not an unreliable engine. I have done 90k miles in the 8v GTX and 60k miles in the Mi 16. And neither car has fallen apart or rusted in any way! H and K reg's.
And what do i think would win hands down? The 205
Oh btw the 309 was sh!t handling!
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Oh btw the 309 was sh!t handling!
really? Mine seemed to be ever so good and back in the good old challenge days they usually beat the 205 even with extra weight (will admit they are damned ugly though).
The comments on rust aren't true either. Only very early 205/309 shells were not galvanised and rust is one thing you will only usually find if the car has been badly repaired after accident damage.
I've only ever been in two cars that have been dangerously rusty, one being a Vauxhall Nova saloon, the other a Golf VR6 (needed a new floor pan if I remember rightly).
I've not yet had the pleasure of owning a Golf and as time is passing its less and less likely (although a black Mk1 would do nicely) but have had plenty of Pugs, just cannot help but post when someone says 309's don't handle...
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Having had a 1.6 205 gti and golf gti, I think that: If you have no fear, then a 205 gti, but if you aren't completely nuts all the time, then a mk2 gti is what you want...
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i would choose a Mk2 Gti over a Pug Gti anyday...my old 205 1.9 had better gearing and torque but had a habit of scaring me and passengers sh!tless when hooning around Exmoor on some of the greatest driving roads anywhere. Where the Golf understeers and wobbles when caught out, the pug was evil as you could easily load it up too much at sensible speeds and it still would hop and tramp like crazy. You defo needed huge balls to really rag it but I simply found it too unforgiving on unfamiliar roads. i still think the 1.9gti is one of the best looking hatches ever made though, especially sitting on those gorgeous 15" speedlines...
Also in the Pug you could climb a local 17% (v steep) hill in third which neither my 8v or 16v Golf could or would do...though interestingly my 2.0 valver with KR cams now happily headbutts the national speed limit on the very same hill :grin: :laugh:
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205's are :cool:
(http://www.isitaboat.co.uk/rally/peugeot_205_t16/t16.jpg)
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these were cooler than both...
(http://www.auto-adrenalina.com/images2/lancia_hf_integrale3.jpg)
and still are. :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
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the coolest :grin:
(http://www.rallygallery.com/whole_events/killarney2003/slowly_sideways/killarney2003_slowly_sideways_img_9766.jpg)
:undecided:
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205's are
crap compaired to the mk2 :grin:
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unfortunately they are quicker dude, but yeah as a car they are sh!t
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205 is the better drivers car, but unfortunatley, they are made out of tinfoil and cardboard, where the golf is built out of girders....... :huh:
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You guys ever sit back and read what you write?
Some of you are perfectly reasonable - I agree that Peugeot build quality isn't brilliant, paint may not be perfect and metal is thin BUT
Some of you sound like you've never been in any other car that a Golf, and yet are commenting on 205's and 309's with no idea what you are saying!
Why are they "sh!t" as a car? As I said before apart from very early cars they are galvanised, if setup properly the motronic system is reliable, and overall they can make very good cars, even for day to day use.
They are very responsive to changes in the cars balance but that's part of the pleasure of driving a 205 - all the Peugeot's I have had (including the 405) could have their turn in adjusted by throttle or brakes.
I think this whole thread is just antagonistic when in reality both Peugeot and VW have created brilliant Gti's.
What I can take from this is that the 205 is edgeier but more responsive, but for day to day the Golf may be better?
Me, I don't care how about anything other than handling and performance, hence the 309 is the car for me.
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One thing about peugeots. The f**king gearboxes are pants. Even on the new models. sh!t quick though. Although they do make bloody strong diesels.
Still not as good as an integrale or 6R4. :cool: :cool:
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no offence but this is a golf site so we are bound to be biased towards them eh? in fact i'm surprised how nice some people have been about 205's.
i doubt if you went to a 205 specific site they'd all be saying they wished they drove golfs....
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Me, I don't care how about anything other than handling and performance, hence the 309 is the car for me.
Sorry but i don't get that statement, i would of thought that for both of those qualities you would wanted a shorter wheel based motor, I.E. the 205, i mean the vw comparison would be the jetta, but you never see people racing or tracking them. Purely for power to weight i would of thought that the 205 would be better, and for handling i would of thought the same aswell. I know i would choose either a mk1 or 2 for a track weapon as a saloon is just too "sloppy" and wallows in the corners. (Even though i know that some of the 309s were hatchs the same still applies) What makes you choose the 309 over a 205?? :smiley:
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This was so much cooler...
(http://www.motorimania.net/manifestazioni/autodarally/images_rally/b_audi_quattro_s1_14.jpg)
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(http://personal.inet.fi/private/imp/valokuvia/jutila_01.jpg)
:wink: :wink:
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I respect 205 GTi's as they were also an iconic car in their time. Always said if i didn't have a golf i'd have a 205 Gti. Trouble is finding one with all its bits! :laugh:
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Me, I don't care how about anything other than handling and performance, hence the 309 is the car for me.
Sorry but i don't get that statement, i would of thought that for both of those qualities you would wanted a shorter wheel based motor, I.E. the 205, i mean the vw comparison would be the jetta, but you never see people racing or tracking them. Purely for power to weight i would of thought that the 205 would be better, and for handling i would of thought the same aswell. I know i would choose either a mk1 or 2 for a track weapon as a saloon is just too "sloppy" and wallows in the corners. (Even though i know that some of the 309s were hatchs the same still applies) What makes you choose the 309 over a 205?? :smiley:
There is a wheelbase to track ratio that is optimal - and the 309 has that. It also has uprated torsion bars, springs, and anti-roll bars over the 205, and is slightly more forgiving without losing the lift off oversteer ability that enables utra quick cornering. I have found the 309 to be as nimble as the 106 Gti I used to drive but with that extra bit of useability and less tendancy to just waste power. The 309 is certainly not sloppy!
The stability is the key for me and you can feel everything thats going on. I drove the 205 Gti and own a 205 Cti at the moment but I would chose a 309 over a 205 anyday.
Richard Burns and Colin McRae certainly never complained about their old 309's ;)
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or just whack the rear axle of a 309 into a 205 gti...
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Depends who's driving ::)
1.9 205 Pug is mightily quick, but it's French and falls to bits ;D
Tis v true. Had the choice of a 1.6 converted XS before buying my 1.6 Driver, way quicker, but the car just felt so tinny for lack of better phrase. i want a nice safe car that can also be strong and go fast (eventually) so I got the golf!
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i had a mi-16 205, with 309 rear beam and a mi-16 309, and i must admit, i did prefer the handling on the 309, it just felt more sure of it's self round the bends at speed.....
both were rapid tho.... :evil:
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Me, I don't care how about anything other than handling and performance, hence the 309 is the car for me.
Sorry but i don't get that statement, i would of thought that for both of those qualities you would wanted a shorter wheel based motor, I.E. the 205, i mean the vw comparison would be the jetta, but you never see people racing or tracking them. Purely for power to weight i would of thought that the 205 would be better, and for handling i would of thought the same aswell. I know i would choose either a mk1 or 2 for a track weapon as a saloon is just too "sloppy" and wallows in the corners. (Even though i know that some of the 309s were hatchs the same still applies) What makes you choose the 309 over a 205?? :smiley:
There is a wheelbase to track ratio that is optimal - and the 309 has that. It also has uprated torsion bars, springs, and anti-roll bars over the 205, and is slightly more forgiving without losing the lift off oversteer ability that enables utra quick cornering. I have found the 309 to be as nimble as the 106 Gti I used to drive but with that extra bit of useability and less tendancy to just waste power. The 309 is certainly not sloppy!
The stability is the key for me and you can feel everything thats going on. I drove the 205 Gti and own a 205 Cti at the moment but I would chose a 309 over a 205 anyday.
Richard Burns and Colin McRae certainly never complained about their old 309's ;)
Fair enough, i just thought the same characteristics would apply to a similar sized car as a jetta. As it is fair to say i know f**k all about the pugs, hence i just presumed that the handling of the 205 would far outweigh the 309. Courses and horses i think is the saying.  :cool:
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you barely ever see 205's on the road anymore compared to golfs, thats why i said they are sh!t cars because the majority of them are dead already :grin:
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yer dont see many ferrari 360 modena's, dunt mean they're sh!t, but you've got a point, they are made by frogs.... :huh:
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a few more pugs were built than ferraris :wink: i still think they are cool cars, dont get me wrong but i wouldnt own one for everyday use
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I owned a 205 lecoste version with green check interior for a while when i lived in the country. It was a right laugh! I lived in the middle of no where with some very fun roads with jumps and everything. To say the least i gave the poor little thing a hard time. Handling was a no no but apart from that it was class! I didnt care that it was a tin can and bits fell off cos it was only my daily banger. I even went over the top of the valley to the other valley on the other side OFFROAD! Lol that was fun! For a 1.4 id didnt half shift! I honestly tried to break it but it just kept coming back for more!
But in all seriousness i had 1 or 2 very lucky escapes in it and if i hadnt managed to squeeze through 2 cars sideways like james bond im pretty sure i wouldent be here remenissing about the fun i had in a peugeot 205 lecoste.
Now im a bit older and wiser im much happier in my good old golf. You cant beat the solid feel of a golf on coil overs and polly bushes!
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I think that you guys are comparing the 205's to your modified golfs possibly??? We are talking standard vs. standard, i think if both had the same kind of things done to them the golf wouldnt stand much of a chance on a b'road. I have a 1.6 205 gti and my bro used to have a mk2 gti 8 valve and my 205 would have beatin it all the way up the range.
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the minute people join a forum just to add their point about their car it pisses me off.
it was an innocent enough question to start with and wasn't meant to be a 205 bashing thread so don't bother joining just to fight your corner. no offenece to you or your car but i can't see the point in this thread continuing, god knows why it was brought back up in the first place!
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lol Having a bad day Joe?
Ah let them bicker, its fun to watch :grin: