GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Khare on 16 February 2010, 12:21
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Cyl 1
Dry 190
Wet 195
Cyl 2
Dry 180
Wet 195
Cyl 3
Dry 180
Wet 215
Cyl 4
Dry 185
Wet 185
Cyl 3's piston rings look to be past it. No oil burning but it must be the cause to my high crank pressure.
Opinions and views please.
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thats still a decent reading, i would have been worried if no 3 was much lower than the others and then rose to a comparable pressure with oil added but as it is, im not quite sure whats wrong?
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Yeah. Well spoke to a real good mechanic local to me who's given me a load of info. He said he is worried about cyl 3 and 4, cyl 3 for the difference and cyl 4 because the wet test didn't increase the pressure, but I'm pretty sure I did read 190 briefly so that's a 5 psi increase, just like cyl 1.
This website quotes
Four readings, all within 10 pounds square / inch of each other (1.38 Kg sq/m) -- a sound engine.
Some people say that if all four cylinders are within 20 pounds of each other, all is well. I work to within 10 pounds. A fault shows up quite dramatically on the compression tester.
Having got your set of readings, you now need to do further tests to determine if you have worn or broken piston rings OR leaking valves.
Add a pipette of oil to the low cylinder. (If you do not have a pipette, use a piece of plastic tube with about two inches of engine oil in it). This oil will seal broken rings temporarily.
Repeat the test. If the pressure rises by say 20 pounds square inch, then you have broken or badly worn piston rings. If the pressure does NOT rise, then you have leaking valves. A faulty inlet valve often gives itself away by spitting back through the carburettor when running.
The mechanic said there is a product from a company called Lucas, but no the Lucas we know here...It's an American company, and this oil addictive is used in drag racing over the pond. He said they used to sell it here but he now can't find anywhere that does it. He said that it was used in an old pick up that drank oil like nothing and after the treatment it didn't completely cure the problem, but it helped massively. I've got no oil being burnt so it should almost cure the problem.
I think this is the product
(http://www.fremontautomotive.net/pictures/lucas%20oil%20treatment.jpg)
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found it http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/store_item.php?product=10001 (http://www.lucasoil.co.uk/store_item.php?product=10001)
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you get things that claim similar results in halfrauds+ motor factors, never used any though
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you get things that claim similar results in halfrauds+ motor factors, never used any though
The mechanic said so. He said slick 50 is the closest thing to this Lucas stuff but slick 50 and the other halfords products just didn't show an improvement, were as this Lucas oil stabilizer did a huge improvement.
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fair enough man, its hard to know whats worth doing in these situtions
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fair enough man, its hard to know whats worth doing in these situtions
I've been thinking new engine for a while, another 8v gti engine but strip it, clean everything, new seals and gaskets all over, some ARP bolts down below and up above (maybe), porting and polishing, new rings, and s/s exhaust manifold to go with it. Painted block and gearbox too! (of course with new clutch and bearings). I think I'll just run the engine how it is now for a while, live with it, and when I can afford to then get hold of another engine and work on that one.
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yeh if thats your plan and this engine holds up you may aswell horde parts+ build up a solid engine ready for when this one pops
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yeh if thats your plan and this engine holds up you may aswell horde parts+ build up a solid engine ready for when this one pops
Yeah. Hopefully this will hold up until I've got the other one ready. Don't want to suddenly blow £300 on new engine and having to fit it without any work done to it.
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Oh by the way, this test was done with throttle wide open and engine dead cold.
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should really warm engine up first, but throttle open is right, maybe thats why the funny results, as you were testing the engine strted to warm up, i know there was no firing but just the friction of cranking would have some effect, id do another test with it fully warm, rekon you may get more normal results poss?
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should really warm engine up first, but throttle open is right, maybe thats why the funny results, as you were testing the engine strted to warm up, i know there was no firing but just the friction of cranking would have some effect, id do another test with it fully warm, rekon you may get more normal results poss?
possibly, but after reading a few guides online + the Haynes warming it up is not really needed.
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really? im sure its said warm up everywhere ive read it, i would give it a go anyway if you still have acess to the tester as it doesnt take long.
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Well I've bought a new tester from ebay for a tenner. I'll retest when it arrives and see how it goes.
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Don,t want to cause more confusion or alarm but I use Slick 50 and have had good results using it.
I had a...er...(say it quietly)...citroen,that had some really nasty looking comp test numbers...BX it was.
Changed to a heavier oil,20/50 mineral oil with a bottle of slick 50.
Sorted it right out.
In those days,you had to drive your car for over a mile after putting it in and pop it in a bucket of hot water
but it sorted that citroen and I always put some in with the first oil change,when I buy any old car.
Try it and do the test again after a couple of miles.
Be interesting to see which "magic fluid" works best.
Good Luck.
RALPH
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what's this about a bucket of hot water??
I think I'm gonna change to a heavier oil too, I'm going to go for the 15w-40 from castrol, especially for engines over 75k miles.
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i have used the lucas oil additive with great results on a mk1 1.3 which was running very poorly and burning a fair amount of oil. the additive kept it going a further 8 weeks so in your case as yours don't look to bad should give you plenty of time to source and rebuild a new lump.
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The engine must be operating temp before doing a compression test, otherwise its a waste of time really.
As already said on your other thread, there's nothing wrong with your compression readings.
You only need to do the wet test if the dry readings are suspect.
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I'm going to do another compression test when I receive the tester in a few days. But I still think rings have gone. The blow by on the engine is immense.
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I was going to suggest this, do the test again when the engine is hot.
Get someone to hold the throttle wide open and crank the engine, while you watch how quickly the pressure increases.
The pressure should build up quickly, and there should be no more than 1 bar(about 13.5 psi) between cylinders.
You do not need to do a wet test unless there is a problem with the dry test.
Let me know the results.
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will do dude. I remember it did take a while for the pressure to build. About 4 or 5 cranks.
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Yes, but you did the test cold, and a well worn in engine will take longer when cold.
When the engine is hot the readings will be accurate.
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got my compression tester today, so will do the test again with engine warm and see what happens. I'll report back this afternoon.
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Those compressions don't look bad and the difference between dry and wet seems to indicate good rings. You would see a much more noticeable imbalance if there was a problem.
Not having read your previous posts, what makes you think your crankcase pressure is high?
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Those compressions don't look bad and the difference between dry and wet seems to indicate good rings. You would see a much more noticeable imbalance if there was a problem.
Not having read your previous posts, what makes you think your crankcase pressure is high?
Blow by. It's the only thing the RAC guy said when he came to fix my leak. He said at idle alone there was huge amounts of pressure being forced out, and he said only to imagine how much pressure is coming out at higher revs.
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Are you losing oil?
I've experienced worn rings twice on Golfs and on both occasions yes it was breathing very heavily and I was getting a lot of oil in the breather area of the air filter housing (older Golfs).
One was so bad I disconnected the breather from the air filter housing and routed it into a an old washer bottle to collect the oil. Car was also lumpy in running due to uneven compressions.
It is possible that the breathing is normal and that the RAC guy is comparing it with newer vehicles or different marques :undecided:
If the car is running fine and you're not losing oil then I would be inclined to leave well alone and 'not fix what ain't broke' :smiley:
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Are you losing oil?
I've experienced worn rings twice on Golfs and on both occasions yes it was breathing very heavily and I was getting a lot of oil in the breather area of the air filter housing (older Golfs).
One was so bad I disconnected the breather from the air filter housing and routed it into a an old washer bottle to collect the oil. Car was also lumpy in running due to uneven compressions.
It is possible that the breathing is normal and that the RAC guy is comparing it with newer vehicles or different marques :undecided:
If the car is running fine and you're not losing oil then I would be inclined to leave well alone and 'not fix what ain't broke' :smiley:
I did think that maybe the bloke was comparing it to newer cars, but I asked him about his car experience and he had a huge car garage in Bournemouth were they tuned Ford Capri's, Fiesta XR2's and Escort XR3's and lods of other now classic cars. He even had a mk1 escort mexico, so I'm pretty sure he knew what was what.
Not burning oil, although I do get a fair bit of some coming from the pipes when cold. It used to last anything between 1 or 2 minutes but now it's about 5 or so minutes, and quite an amount too.
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Sounds like you don't have worn piston rings then.
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Well I'm bout to go off to do the test again so I'll report back in half an hour.
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Why dont you test the actual pressure in the crank case........................ you might be supprised
My car has 145k on it gets a bit of oil in the TB, most is carried by fuel in the oil as it evaporates
your not burning oil
your car runs fine
Whats the problem?
:smiley:
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Well well well, what do you know.
Compression tester from ebay is faulty :rolleyes:
Gets to about 50 psi and just gives up. My guess is that the crappy adapter for the smaller spark plugs is leaking, as it looks pretty sh!t quality :rolleyes:
Have sent the seller a message asking for a replacement for a working one or a refund. So for now, all on hold.
Car runs a bit flat, seems to lack some power. For now it's OK, but I will re-do the test when I've got a working tester.
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what make is it? there is an o ring in between thread adapters on mine
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Laser-Quality-Compression-Tester-2516-New_W0QQitemZ120526521928QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment?hash=item1c0ff0c648
laser one here for tenner, ive got a gunnsons one
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250569690907&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250569690907&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)
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am-tech arent terible for quality got a nice adjustable spanner from them but if this is faulty id get a refund+ buy a laser/gunnson other reputable auto tool maker
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I've got a gunson one and it's given me 10 years of superb service.
nick
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I think mine is a gunson too, had it for 10 years, its not let me down but i've only used it a few times.
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It is a long shot but your saying it lacks power etc, maybe you have a sticking valve.
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It is a long shot but your saying it lacks power etc, maybe you have a sticking valve.
mmmmmm don't know, but it's not lacking too much power. Still quick, just not AS quick :grin:
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Did you do the original compression test yourself?
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Did you do the original compression test yourself?
yes.
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What tester did you use? You said you bought another?
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Used a borrowed one from the owner of a local auto parts store.
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Ok i got it now :wink:
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Khare - You are a hypercondriact
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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I'm just looking for an excuse to ABF the car :laugh:
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Oh by the way, new tester should be here Monday or Tuesday so I'll re-do the test then.
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lol, reading this my car should be 6 feet under, lol!
my car burns oil, is down on power, and runs like a rough thing thats rough :D
but hey, it still works :D
like you m8 im running it till it dies, and hopefully this year i'll bag myself another 2e engine, strip the fecker and re build, so when it finally pops, i'll have a tasty one to put in!!
might even look into different cams etc... cos i want my car to have the standard engine in, with a twist!
from what ive read here, yours sounds fine, lol...
ps - hows your oil catch tank doing?? will reply on other thread actually and stop spamming ;)
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Don't have a catch can anymore mate, I've got a breather on the end of it instead now. Check page 4 of the oil catch can thread.
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OK. NEW FIGURES!
cyl 1
Dry 160
Wet 210
cyl 2
Dry 160
Wet 210
cyl 3
Dry 160
Wet 200
cyl 4
Dry 150
Wet 215
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Nowt wrong there then.
Nick
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Still well within limits mate.
Like i said before, you don't need to do a wet test, only if the dry test is iffy, and its well within limits.
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Still well within limits mate.
Like i said before, you don't need to do a wet test, only if the dry test is iffy, and its well within limits.
It's what I though too.
Still...
Doubt engine would make it to Spain and back...
So it's a good enough excuse to upgrade to an ABF :evil:
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Why won't it make it?
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I just have a gut feeling...
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looks perfect mate, i know its an arse but start looking for another cause of your fault :sick:
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looks perfect mate, i know its an arse but start looking for another cause of your fault :sick:
Well engine is being replaced so no need to spend time or money on this one.
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Change the engine if you want, but there doesn't seem anything wrong with the 8v lump.
Does it run properly with decent leads on it?
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Change the engine if you want, but there doesn't seem anything wrong with the 8v lump.
Does it run properly with decent leads on it?
I'll get the money back from the donor car anyway, so it's more or less a free conversion.
Engine did run OK with the old leads.
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So not a lot wrong with it then.
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Apart from missing 8 valves.
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Apart from missing 8 valves.
We should call you Shady.
Couple of weeks ago, the 8V was the sh!t.
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I never said it was. I just say the 8v is underestimated, it just needs some spicing up.
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I never said it was. I just say the 8v is underestimated, it just needs some spicing up.
Quitter.
:tongue:
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not at all, I'm wise even.
As DH said in the dub sections thread, a standard 16v will make more power with the same/less fuel consumption than a tweaked 8v.
Also, a 16v has 150 standard, 180 with ease, and 200 with some work put into it.
An 8v will have 150 with lot's of work put into it and lots of money, and it will only just be at the same level as a standard 16v. So I am saving myself so much money and effort of tuning.
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Don't believe the power figures, the ABF is tunable but its not cheap, not for real power. The best person to ask is Glen, or check out his thread on clubgti.
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For what it is worth, yes more power but torque is still the issue, but you only listen to certain members so lets all move on.
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not at all, I'm wise even.
As DH said in the dub sections thread, a standard 16v will make more power with the same/less fuel consumption than a tweaked 8v.
Also, a 16v has 150 standard, 180 with ease, and 200 with some work put into it.
An 8v will have 150 with lot's of work put into it and lots of money, and it will only just be at the same level as a standard 16v. So I am saving myself so much money and effort of tuning.
Bored, wanted a better bite. :(
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Too many people believe that its easy to increase an ABF by 30bhp, you won't see people claim the same with a vr.
This is because you can't increase any NA engine that easily without big bucks.
This is a fact, unfortunately! :nerd:
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think your just after the slightest excuse to get out of an 8v, lol
tbh, there is nothing wrong with em, but if you want more then fair enough!!
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Here we go :rolleyes:
I don't listen to certain members only, I take everyone's opinions and value them, but the best one is to convert.
Danny_p got 173hp from an ABF with 4-2-1 manifold and tweaked airbox. I know how hard it is to get power out of a NA, I got 22hp from the 8v....
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Here we go :rolleyes:
I don't listen to certain members only, I take everyone's opinions and value them, but the best one is to convert.
Danny_p got 173hp from an ABF with 4-2-1 manifold and tweaked airbox. I know how hard it is to get power out of a NA, I got 22hp from the 8v....
Hold the phone......
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Power figures mean nothing, depends on the rolling road.
By all means do the engine swap, as its not going to cost you.
Just don't expect easy gains in power.
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I'm not expecting miracle gains, but getting power from a 16v is the same if not easier than an 8v.
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Yes its probably easier than a 8v.
Depends what lump you end up with, it might be a really good one like your 8v, and push out alot more than 150bhp as standard.
Interestingly when the golf magazine tested OBDII vr6's a few years back, they all were putting out near on 190bhp with no mods. I do believe this does happen.
Some people on here doubted about the vr's when i posted that before, its interesting how some people claim that a 16v can be easily increased as its detuned in the first place, but not a vr.
Normally 16v owners that claim this.
The reality is the vr is more detuned than a 16v, probably because once tuned it becomes even more damn thirsty....
The ABF was already well tuned for its time, the 9A and 6A lumps only put out 136bhp...
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Yes its probably easier than a 8v.
Depends what lump you end up with, it might be a really good one like your 8v, and push out alot more than 150bhp as standard.
Interestingly when the golf magazine tested OBDII vr6's a few years back, they all were putting out near on 190bhp with no mods. I do believe this does happen.
Some people on here doubted about the vr's when i posted that before, its interesting how some people claim that a 16v can be easily increased as its detuned in the first place, but not a vr.
Normally 16v owners that claim this.
The reality is the vr is more detuned than a 16v, probably because once tuned it becomes even more damn thirsty....
The ABF was already well tuned for its time, the 9A and 6A lumps only put out 136bhp...
Do you believe the ABF was detuned ?
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No.
Its what some 16v owners claim.
They like to believe that for a few quid they can match a vr6.
Sadly in the real world it doesn't happen.
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No.
Its what some 16v owners claim.
They like to believe that for a few quid they can match a vr6.
Sadly in the real world it doesn't happen.
Interesting you think the same as me then.
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I think the 8v,16v and vr6 are all good solid lumps.
But without spending decent money, and putting alot of labour in, people should not expect easy gains.
The vr will be the cheapest and easiest to get to 200bhp, as already stated by an experienced enthusiast on here, but from there big bucks for any decent increases.
The ABF lump is really overstated on here IMO.
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I think the 8v,16v and vr6 are all good solid lumps.
But without spending decent money, and putting alot of labour in, people should not expect easy gains.
The vr will be the cheapest and easiest to get to 200bhp, as already stated by an experienced enthusiast on here, but from there big bucks for any decent increases.
The ABF lump is really overstated on here IMO.
Never :lipsrsealed:
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I'm not saying they are crap, don't get me wrong. I really like the 16v engine.
Its just i think some people do get a bit carried away with them.