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Model specific boards => Golf mk1 => Topic started by: Mixmasta on 06 February 2010, 18:10
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Hey all,
Have just purchased another mk1 Gti cab it's an 88 KJet 'dx' code engine and it has a rather big oil leak coming from somewhere behind the cam belt covers. I'm just wondering whether there are 'usual suspects' to look at given this symptom. I have taken the top cambelt cover off and the belts, side of the engine and covers are caked in oil. Problem is if I clean off the oil and try and find where it's coming from I can't really see as the belts and cogs are throwing the oil all over everywhere again. Ideally, I guess I should take the bottom pulley and lower belt cover off to see more, just a little sceptical about this as I know what will happen if the belt isn't put back on perfectly!. Also, it is very difficult to see whats going on there due to the proximity to the inner wing -especially given that I haven't any ramps to get a good look from underneath. To me (not being massively technically minded) it looked like it was possibly the rocker cover gasket so I have changed that and it hasn't helped at all.
Is there a 'weakness' on that side which is worth looking at?
Any ideas/advice would be greatfully received.
Thanks in advance
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camshaft sprocket seal is a good one for this, quite easy to change if you take #1 cam cap off as well.
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The oil could be coming from any one of three places; camshaft seal, dizzy drive shaft seal or crankshaft seal. The only real way of finding which is to give it a really good clean and have a good look. You can take off the bottom pully (water pump and alt drive) to remove the bottom half of the cover without disturbing the timing belt, but put it back with the belt on without the cover so you can run the engine. By the way, an oil contaminated timing belt is a risk I wouldn't take. You'll need to remove it any way to change the seals so make it a new one!!
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Thanks for this info!!! I wasn't aware that you could take the bottom cover off without removing the timing belt pulley so I shall be having another look at this tomorrow!
"By the way, an oil contaminated timing belt is a risk I wouldn't take."
Definately not me either, it's currently off the road due to an electrical problem which is hopefully being resolved on Friday. The plan has always been to try and find the leak(s), fix it, then replace belts once squeeky clean, BTW the fan belt sounds quite nice slipping in the oil too :grin: ... will keep you all informed with the progress. If it is the crankshaft or dizzy seals I take it that this is more than an enthusiastic DIYer can manage - doesn't sound too easy?
Again thanks for the help - tis definately appreciated :smiley:
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BUGGER! trying to get the pulleys off but the bolts are solid!!! tried the old wd40 and also heating them slightly but nothing is shifting them - one problems is that I can't keep the pulley from revolving when applying the torque to remove bolts, is there a trick to lock the bottom pulleys from spinning?
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update
I managed to sort it by putting a bar through the camshaft pulley and locking it to the inlet manifold :lol: . This took me a load of time compared to you guys who know what you're doing (most of the day) :redfaced: even took the bottom pulley off and then tried attacking the water pump pulley WHOOPS! obviously had to reassemble to have a go at those bolts, which were a pain on there own. It's all a learning curve though right :dontknow:
Thankfully the covers off now and it's all cleaned up, need to wait till tomorrow when the auto electrician sorts my electric prob out so it'll fire, then I can hopefully report the source of the leak (fingers crossed it aint the bad ones) I did notice a couple of things when I was cleaning it up not sure if this will help to identify the source of the leak. There was a pool of oil behind the distributer and rather randomly a 10mm nut :dontknow: Also behind the biggest cog (the one at the side of the cambelt tensioner) there's a spacer/shim which is loose(ish), you can rotate this independant to the cog. This doesn't look to be dropping anything but obviously can't really tell until shes spining.
Hopefully will know the extent of the problem tomorrow, but I can say that it's a pretty bad leak as the bottom of the car is CAKED!!
Thanks again for all the help!!!
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The auto electrician has been out and has diagnosed the electrical problem as the fusebox so i've PM'd someone who had one for sale, obviously car is a non runner so I can't check out the oil leak fully. One problem though, i'd given it a good clean yesterday with the expectation of getting it running today, only to find it had dropped more oil just through gravity last night. The oil was dripping off the sump plug (which I know isn't leaking) and it looks to be coming from the back of the engine but I can not get a good look. This car has recently had a new head gasket pre me owning it I'm just hoping that this was done properly!! does anyone know whether it could be the headgasket if it's not milking up the oil, also would it be losing coolant?
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Id just start from the bottom up mate. Replace the sump gasket and the oil seal for the dizzy and then go from there
Oh BTW I have a cabby Fusebox for sale if you still need one
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Thanks Leedub,
I've bought one yesterday, as long as all's well I should be fine... if it turns out to be a dog i'll PM you. I am going to change the sump gasket tomorrow, there's a really good 'how to' thread which goes through removing / cleaning the oil pump and pick up, think i'll give that a go so will change it then. Is the distributor one easy to do? do I just look for distributor seals?
Just hoping it's not the bottom end seal or head gasket which knowing my luck it will probably be :wink:
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The bottom end seal? you on about the crankshaft seal? I would say its more than likely either your sump gasket or your rocker cover gasket mate. both are easy to change. Ive seen a mk2 with a knackard sump gasket and it was pi$$ing oil everywhere mate.
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Sorry pardon my obvious ignorance :embarassed: yeah I was on about the crankshaft seal.
"I would say its more than likely either your sump gasket or your rocker cover gasket mate"
God I hope so, I've changed the rocker cover gasket already and as mentioned I will change my sump gasket tomorrow - will probably actually be Monday as I will need a new copper washer for the sump plug.
Someone also mentioned that it could well be the dizzy oil seal, I have checked GSF and I can't find anything which looks like it, is it known by anything specific so I can put a search term in, I've tried distributor seal it just comes back with dizzy cap
Thanks Lee_dub!
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********UPDATE*********
Finally sorted the electrics and changed the sump gasket :smiley: ran the car in situ and let it get up to temp and go through the fan cycle a couple of times, checked for oil, nothing :smiley: let it cool down then did the same thing again, checked for oil, nothing :smiley:. So I thought that i'd be brave and go for a quick spin so I could check after that....... got back and had a look, still just as bad as it ever was! :sad: pouring out!. As you look at the camshaft side of the engine it's done the same thing, the side of the block from the camshaft all the way down is layered in oil. The oil run off/where it's dropping to the floor is from the bulkhead side of the engine if you look at it from the drivers wing. One thing I did notice is that the cam belt wasn't 'caked' in oil so I figure that the belt isn't distributing the oil round the block so I guess it's best to work from the top down?. Next to chalk off the list is the camshaft seals? has anyone done this, is it something which is easy(ish) fo the DIY'er to do?
Cheers for all the advise!!!
By the way, on the 'quick spin' the accelerator pedal just sunk to the floor on a dual carridgeway leaving me with no power. Pulled over and had a look and the grommit which holds the cable to the pedal had just disintergrated, thankfully I had a crocadile clip in the car so did a temp fix - This is now the 3rd time this has broken down in as many trips out :cry:
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Ok then. Have you donr the rocker cover deal yet?
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yes mate that was the first one as obviously is the easiest.
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So what your saying is its leaking from the camshaft pulley side from around the area where the pulley is? It sounds like the camshaft seal has gone. Get someone to rev the car whilst you observe the engine behind the camshaft pulley. Unfortunately it is a cam out job mate, remove the pulley and change the seal, pulley back on and then re-fit. If you mark the position of the pulley relative to the belt and lock the crankshaft so it cant move you can slacken off the tensioner and just pull the belt off at the camshaft pulley. Then whip the cam shaft out and change the seal! refitting the cam is easy too. Should take you a few hours mate
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How did you get on with this mate?
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Hey Leedub,
Not great if i'm being honest, took it to a garage so I could get it up on ramps to see whether I get a better view of the leak - didn't!. The mechanic who was there said, this is definately your camshaft seal mate, otherwise you wouldn't get oil here (up on the side of the block by the camshaft pulley). I have changed that and it's not stopped in the slightest. So I'm going to have a bash at the intermediate shaft next week as I'm waiting for some engine mounts, if i'm taking the belt off again I may as well do everything in one go. If that doesn't stop it i'm fully stumped, must be a crack or something I can't see, as mentioned this is quite a bad leak!
Things changed thus far
Rocker cover gasket
Sump gasket - which was much harder to do than I though, courtesy of x2 10mm bolts near the bell housing
Camshaft seal
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I tell you what mate, I'm really starting to feel for you....
Well at least that is another seal done anyways. If it's not your intermediate shaft then I can't think what else it could be. If the block is cracked then it's new lump time. Don't give up tho fella.
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Thanks Leedub,
Yeah getting a little disheartened to be honest, but I'm also very stubourn :grin: ... knew that would come in handy at some point - what is it they say 'joys of motoring'
I'm holding on to the thought that if it was a crack then I would be using coolant too. Just really frustrating when you change something on recommendation rev it in situ with no leaks, then look after a quick spin and it's leaking as bad as ever - properly gutting feeling, hey ho
Will post up next week, hopefully with good news ..... don't hold your breath though
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:cry:
I have my fingers crossed for you mate
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SUCCESS!!!!!
I've replaced both the crankshaft and int shaft oil seals and this has stopped the leak that side :grin: to be honest I think it was the int shaft seal as this didn't look to be in situ as well as the others - couldn't be happier! the only leak to sort now is the leak from around the bottom of the distributor. I tried putting an o-ring on this and it's made it much worse :sad: I have been told that the seal is literally only paper thin and as such I should just make my own..... will give it a bash! but anyone has advice on this that'd be great!, you never know this may mean I wouldn't have to keep putting in oil between services :laugh: But I can exstaticly confirm leak which prompted this thread has now been resolved!.
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Gasket is paper on the dizzy, but... Get proper gasket paper, or you may be able to buy this one seperatly (doubt it). Before you take the dizzy out, mark it, the remove the dizzy s l o w l y and mark it again, as the internals twist as the feed and drive gears pass each other, making it a bit of an arse to get back into place first time. Also it being a paper gasket, it is very fragile, and does not like the dizzy being pulled in and out of the hole.
(Hint) Take the dizzy cap off, wind the engine over until the rotor arm is pointing to the little cut out in the dizzy body, this should be TDC, the mark is about 1PM on the body.
Check the breather seals on the front of the block, next to the dizzy housing, also the oil cooler can leak if the locknut is not tight (above the oil filter)
Buy a load of TFR (traffic film remover) stick it in a pump bottle, drive to jet wash, spray engine, leave a few minutes, jetwash off, volia, super clean engine that makes oil leaks easy (ier) to trace.
I am not bored at the moment, not at all, sorry for the long reply :smiley:
Cheers
kraM
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"I am not bored at the moment, not at all, sorry for the long reply smiley"
:grin: :grin: :grin:
oooohhhh Sunday eves with the pre Monday blues I know the feeling well!
Thanks for this info, very helpfull. I always put the engine at tdc before taking the dizzy off force of habit I guess. I know it's definately coming from the dizzy as I made this worse by trying to fix it with an o-ring :wink:
"Buy a load of TFR (traffic film remover) stick it in a pump bottle, drive to jet wash, spray engine, leave a few minutes, jetwash off, volia, super clean engine that makes oil leaks easy (ier) to trace."
very good tip!! i'm always dubious about jet washing engines though, I remember doing this on my other mk1 and it ran like a bag-o-bollox for a while afterwards even though I bagged up the essential electrics, but in this case needs must I guess
Thanks again Kram!
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No worries, just don't point the jet directly at the dizzy it's self, and leave the engine running.
Mark
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Glad you stuck at this mate. At least you now have lots of new seals! Peace of mind!!!
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"Glad you stuck at this mate. At least you now have lots of new seals! Peace of mind!!!"
Cheers mate, that's kind of what I keep telling myself too, thing is, this one is getting sold later this year - shall be using pretty much your line with the new owner though :grin:
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point him/her at this thread so they can see what hell you went through! :laugh: