GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Skid on 23 January 2010, 00:11
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Ok, I'm not a kid, I own a mumber of cars, a bike and have spent many years in the motortrade so have done the 'new car' thing repeatedly and driven some amazing cars. So I don't need anymore to fulfill anything when I drive other than my own pleasure.
Then one day I bought a runout model 92 8v Gti 5 door in Schwarz with BBS RA's as a daily hack.... for 6 months as a run about car......... 9 years later it's still going strong, cleans up nicely when it does actually get a wash, and just keeps going and going hard. It's now 190k on the original clutch and head gasket!!!
The thing is, once warmed up the mechanicals are still on the ball and give me mucho pleasure to drive becasue I can go flat out everywhere. Trouble is the chassis is getting sloppy and I'm now in a dilema.
Do I got poly bushing, and 25mm lowered/uprated suspension. Financially this is I guess £1k, which is probably what the car is worth.
Is this sacrelige??? I don't want any look other than standard as still love suprising the unsuspecting badge snobs who believe the motor trade marketing that newer is better. I *want* to be original and let the golf perform on it's own merits, and just add some driving effort on my behalf.
I don't need to look bling or lowered or pimping. I'm 40 years old and got an AC cobra for thingy play if I really have to..
So what do I do? What's the honest opinion. If I upgrade the chassis have I crossed to the darkside????
I am honestly flumoxed and change my mind constantly between going for the mods, leaving alone and suffer the roll and vagueness, or just replacing all with 100% original which is still a fair cost,.
genuine thoughts appreciated.
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Oh and I'm right royally f**ked off with GSF exhaust parts which never line up properly and keep blowing.
I've got a second hand milteck stainless system in my garage somewhere witha modest twin pipe but is definately a bigger bore and has the first box deleted.
right or wrong to fix this to a stock car?
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wow from your post i would suggest just renewing with standard parts you wil find all the 'slack' is taken out and the car will firm up and drive better, however a good set of shocks and springs will enhance handling even further, but which ever way you go renew the bushes is a must, poly bushes may lead to harsher ride, whereas standard bushes and a good quality spring/shock combo will maybe transform the handling from what you have known? :wink:
there's a good few threads from the track guys on here about improving handling, maybe worth trawling thru them, but one thing i learned thru riding a bike was that you need good suspension travel with progressive springs to allow you to soak up the bumps
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Thanks for the quick feedback.
Yep I fully understand the technicalities and improvements of the components..............it's just the moral thing I'm struggling with. Do I, don't I?
Really genuine original cars are very rare now, do I stick with standard components, or go to the darkside? Looks are not the issue, handling is an issue but I would be happy with standard new parts, but while I'm at it do I go the whole hog and go a bit hard core.
Will I have sold my standard Gti 's soul to the tuning Devil????? :shocked:
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Will I have sold my standard Gti 's soul to the tuning Devil?
Your standard GTI wants you to sell its soul to the tuning devil.
You've just been frustrating it for the last 7-8 years.
Get a 2.0 bottom end in there, put a proper cam in it, get the suspension re-bushed. At 190k you're going to need the stem seals done soon anyway, so send the head to JNL racing and get JP to breathe on it - you won't regret it. Personally I'd go for OEM bushes, with the odd tweak like TT bushes on the front arms (and I'd seam weld them while they're out - makes a big difference). OEM bushes also don't sqeak like trapped mice, which I've experienced poly bushes doing.
As for suspension, get some really good struts and -40mm springs in there. Bilstein B8 might seem a lot of money but OEM VAG probably weren't cheap units when new and you sound like the sort of guy who's looking for quality rather than looks.
I'd also search out a set of 6kg wheels to replace your RAs. Losing 2-3kg per corner on the unsprung will add a lot to your pleasure.
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if you aren't sure just stick to bolt on parts and keep the original bits tucked away somewhere
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Will I have sold my standard Gti 's soul to the tuning Devil?
Your standard GTI wants you to sell its soul to the tuning devil.
groan........I sort of knew if I came on here that's what I'd hear, perhaps subconciously that's what I wanted to hear? :grin:
No one on here to defend the 'standard' VAG approach as god intended?????
Modified to add: good point Veedubgti16v - good point.
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I'll defend the standard VAG aproach.
I have been there and done that with modified cars, and all of them have been compromised in one way or another.
VW did an excellent job when engineering the dynamics of the Mk2 GTI, and whilst things have moved on in the last 20 years, in my opinion, a standard car still does what it was designed to do really well. My standard 1990 16V may not be the sharpest of the hot hatches by modern standards, but it always puts a smile on my face, and to me that is the whole point.
If you want a car to perform like a newer one, then maybe you should buy one.
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Watch these, theyre only a few mins each.
They go 'non-oem' but respectfully if you know what i mean.
part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFCcUSbdtzI
part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtpsKV-8C_k
And is imo the perfect approach.
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^^^ That should sell it.
There is no corruption in uprating the 8V GTI suspension - after all VW did it for the 16V and G60 powered cars. If done properly there are no compromises, which is speaking from 12 years of daily use of a modified Mk2.
I agree with others in fitting new standard bushes (upgrading the front wishbone rear bush for ones from a TT/R32) and using decent springs from Eibach or H&R with dampers from Bilstein and Koni. You will lower the 8V about 30-40mm and get far superior suspension control without significantly sacrificing ride comfort.
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I'm at the same point my self just wondering if I can justify the cost as much as anything else. I have a 89 8v with original suspension except that I have fitted a Eibach ARB to the rear. This has made a huge differance to the balance of the car which now turns in mush sharper. I'm thinking, fit the frount ARB, Eibach springs, Koni dampers and polly bushes. Or sell the car and put the suspension money towards buying a RB5 :rolleyes:.
All the cars I've owned I've said that I'll keep this one standard. That's never happened though...
If you choose the parts carefully you wont compromise the handling but you will realise how compromised the standard suspension is.
Just be carefull it's a slippery slop :laugh:
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Ok thanks guys.
So there's no real taboo broken to move to the darkside then :wink:
Thanks a lot all for your input. I forgot to add I do have a stripped out 3 door too which will be the hard core track tool one day, and this 5 door will be the daily hack.
I think I'll go with most of the above suggestions on the chassis work, being quality suspension with 25 - 40 mm drop, though will leave the jury out in my mind on the slightly altered OEM approach or full poly set up. hmmmmm......
I'll leave the BBS RA's as it has to look stock and will go with Yoko parada's spec 2 or Toyo T1's (any suggestions?)
Peversely I like the underdog appraoch and the ability to shock and mug other motorists and the engine's still hanging in there, if a little smokey on start up. I bought her with 108k miles and I know it's still got the original clutch so want to really try and get her to 200k on the clutch, and have a little party :grin: , and maybe even 208k as that will be 100k under my driving.
Then I'll treat her to an engine and gearbox rebuild, and maybe that new clutch :wink: I wont be going 1.8T as for this it would feel wrong, possibly G60 set up if I can find one or the 2 litre block and rebuilt head as already suggested.
So that's about it I guess. Thanks all again and any other suggestions, please feel free....
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i have a 5 door late mk2, i recently polybushed it and its a lot sharper but i would say the suspension lets it down.
it -60mm supersport shocks and springs and tbh its too low for fast roading.
in fast bends the front tyres catch the arches and it really f**ks me off, imagine driving the car every day for 8 months and having to put up with it.
im going for some -40mm spax next.
my point is you get what you pay for, if you are gonna stick with standard go for quality parts not gsf you will only end up changing them 12 months down the line.
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There are a lot better options than a G60.
A 2.0 16V ABF code motor, running on OEM management will provide a f*cking great experience, especially when pulled out of a SEAT Cordoba with 280mm front brakes - drop in replacement. With an easy +35MPG available you can kids yourself it's a sensible option, too.
I'd give Toyo T-1Rs a big thumbs-up, although you're unlikely to go wrong with a set of premium brands like Michelin. For the money Toyos are genuinely great.
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in fast bends the front tyres catch the arches and it really f**ks me off, imagine driving the car every day for 8 months and having to put up with it.
8 months?! I would have taken a hammer to those arch lips a long time ago!! :grin:
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i know but thats basterdisation at its best int it! i cant be doing a clarkson on me wheelarches now can i?
-40mm spax or -20mm weitec instead ta :smiley:
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clarkson would have used a flamethrower to roll the arches :laugh:
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There are a lot better options than a G60.
A 2.0 16V ABF code motor, running on OEM management will provide a f*cking great experience, especially when pulled out of a SEAT Cordoba with 280mm front brakes - drop in replacement. With an easy +35MPG available you can kids yourself it's a sensible option, too.
..... OK, that took me 30 seconds, I'm convinced !!! :grin:
Can you remind me how 'drop in' this is. Is it a straight swap of all including subframe and box (rod change or cable) then swap in loom and fuse box.
Or is it a pick and mix of Mk2 and Seat bits? I'll go looing for a swap thread on the forum a bit later, but if someone knows a link now please let me know.
Cheers
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You have a 3 door shell for a track project right? Sling an ABF in that and go crazy with the poly bushes and suspension. That'll be where you can use all of that to it's full potential.
For the 8v as a daily driver I'd go with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" moto. Get some drop 40mm Eibach springs, some Boge shocks from GSF and re bush the whole car with OE bushes. It'll then feel like a new car but still like it's old self at the same time.
By doing the above you'll end up with an awesome MKII For trackdays and a brilliant, reliable and economical MKII for daily road duties. THat surely is the best of both worlds.
nick
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heh heh, that looks pretty much identicle to my car in those vids :smiley:
I hummed an hawwed over whether it was " too nice " to modify.
However circumstance has made my decision for me meaning I've not put the ABF I was planning/ got sitting there and I'm just tidying it up replacing with OEM on the KR whenever I need to replace a part.
I think you have come to the conclusion already that factory suspension was a to suit everyone whereas now it just has to suit you (sir :wink:)
As a suggestion for totally epic suspension Koni coilovers are the best I've had on any of my Golfs, predictible but soooo much better, bit pricey but you gets what you pays for. That and just replacing knackered bushes with OEM makes the world of difference.
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If you want the best, go for a bilstein B12 suspension kit. Bloody expensive for fixed rate stuff but theres a bloody good reason for that! Should leave the car feeling OEM but oh so much better.
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Gulp - money where mouth is - just bought this :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170435096210&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
What do you think??? Was a 'show' car so has got full clean leather interior full length 4 branch and system plus 65k. It's got to be a woth a go though will probably have to trailer back as has electrical problem as will tick over but will not rev. It was fine when parked up 6 months ago but has been standing.
Plan is punt out mint interior, big boy spoiler and any other bits on Ebay to pay towards it and collection costs, then start the heart transplant.......
I'm in Reading and have a fairly well kitted out garage with pit, anyone fancy rolling up their sleaves and giving me a hand this weekend or next as want to make this a quick swap??? Will be some crates of beer in it.
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That is an awful looking car but an immense purchase from your point of view! That rear wing is priceless!
As you say you should probably be able to turn a profit on the left over bits so that's a result.
I'd offer to come and help this weekend but it's the wife's birthday and I have the outlaws down to visit. I can pop round after work during the week as an extra pair of hands though as I work in Reading.
nick
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it -60mm supersport shocks and springs and tbh its too low for fast roading.
in fast bends the front tyres catch the arches and it really f**ks me off, imagine driving the car every day for 8 months and having to put up with it.
Get those arches rolled :D im runnning 15s on -110mm drop with no rubbing, G60 arches FTW
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Haha, you don't muck about.... Good luck with the swap :cool:
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That spoiler is not good. Good find and good price. Is this going in your track car?
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That spoiler is not good. Good find and good price. Is this going in your track car?
I think in my daily 5 door as the SEAT has air con etc, and possibly ABS!!!, has 4 stud and even had Mk2 Golf dash as standard!!! The clocks are slightly different with a digital screen with odometer in it.
There's an opportunity to bring across full VAG set up to a fairly straght MK2 so don't feel I'm breaking the OEM mould too much.
Diamond Hell has just informed me the SEAT had cable box as standard but cable clutch, so only modification is or the cable box which isn't the biggest problem in the world. So I can keep Mk2 pedal box etc.
I think I'll use this exercise to learn and not go mad on mods, and then apply knowledge and confidence to my track day car for the future.
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That is an awful looking car but an immense purchase from your point of view! That rear wing is priceless!
It makes my willy tingle :wink:
As you say you should probably be able to turn a profit on the left over bits so that's a result.
I'd offer to come and help this weekend but it's the wife's birthday and I have the outlaws down to visit. I can pop round after work during the week as an extra pair of hands though as I work in Reading.
nick
Wow mate, that would be brilliant! Thanks for the offer. I think I need to be a bit more realistic on the timetable as logistics of getting a non runner back here will take considerable time out of this weekend, plus I need to clear some space in my garage and find a temporary home for 2 other vehicles so I'm not tripping over too much stuff.
So I think the plan is get it trailered here, probably worth sorting the running problems if possible while it's still in the SEAT, assess the SEAT running gear quality to know what's coming over, then build a shopping list such as bushes, cam belt, filters, engine mounts (if required) and get as much bought in advance so the swap isn't held up over something stupid.
Then I'll commence strip down and any help most welcome as I've always found for every extra pair of hands productivity increases by double the amount.
So this will be in 2 or 3 weekends time. If you're free, or any other members please let me know. I have catering size tubs or Yorkshire tea, will buy half a pig for bacon butties and have a Switch card with BEER written on it :grin:
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Tea and bacon butties? You'll never get rid of me :grin:
I was going to say it'll probably be best to get the engine running right in the Seat as then you know it was deffo working before fitting it in the MKII. Your plans sound good. Get yourself set up with a project thread in the Dub Rides forum and drop me a PM when you're in need of a spanner monkey.
Nick
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Horney and others, I'm touched by all your encouragement, comments, emails and of course offers of help. - Thanks :cool:
I'll make a general update and a project thread when I have some news, but if anyone wants to add any more comments please do.
By the way, if any one wants a mint black leather 3 door interior with door cards that will fit Mk2 and I believe Mk3 please shout before it goes on Ebay. Apparently it is NOT 'SEAT' branded so should fit in a Golf nicely.
Also **THAT** spoiler (see my previous Ebay link) I think I've identified it as 93 to 00 Subaru Impreza pattern copy. Again if any one wants it please.......errr no, I don't think that'll happen. Straight to Ebay methinks :wink:
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Horney and others, I'm touched by all your encouragement, comments, emails and of course offers of help. - Thanks :cool:
I'll make a general update and a project thread when I have some news, but if anyone wants to add any more comments please do.
By the way, if any one wants a mint black leather 3 door interior with door cards that will fit Mk2 and I believe Mk3 please shout before it goes on Ebay. Apparently it is NOT 'SEAT' branded so should fit in a Golf nicely.
Also **THAT** spoiler (see my previous Ebay link) I think I've identified it as 93 to 00 Subaru Impreza pattern copy. Again if any one wants it please.......errr no, I don't think that'll happen. Straight to Ebay methinks :wink:
SHOUT!!!
How much?
Pics?
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SHOUT!!!
How much?
Pics?
I'm trying to get pictures sent through to me today or tomorrow. I've been promised it's unmarked so you'll have to go with me on this until I see it with my own eyes and I'll be able to give you an honest update.
Price wise, I'm not looking to profit from this, just cover my costs so when we get pictures we can have a chat and sort something amicable I'm sure.
Also if you could pick it up as it comes out of the donor that would be handy as it would save me storage space indoors as would want to keep it nice.
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Check the seat runners are the right width on the SEAT.
The mix of SEAT seats through these cars is hyper-confusing (just ask Chuff). I think the Cordoba is a notch-back, so has fixed rear seats.... :shocked:
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Check the seat runners are the right width on the SEAT.
The mix of SEAT seats through these cars is hyper-confusing (just ask Chuff). I think the Cordoba is a notch-back, so has fixed rear seats.... :shocked:
Good point.
Quite exciting waiting to see what's going to arrive when the 'yellow peril' get here :wink:
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Update:
the Yellow Peril is due to arrive Sunday, though been wondering what the problem might be for non running. It can tick over ut any acceleration induces stall.
I thought it might be the air flow meter as it's had the air box replaced with a conical filter and the wiring may have been damaged, or another suggestion id fuel system relay pump.
Any advances any one?
Also any one know a good cheap delivery/collection company? Got some quotes but does anyone with a trailer want a quick cash job this weekend? It's Eastbourne to Reading, just over 100 miles.
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There is no airflow meter.
Lift pump out of the tank?
Actually I think it's an in-tank pump, which might be failing?
Hall sender on the dizzi?
Crank position sensor starting to fail?
Cam sensor?
Where's DannyP?
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No AFM? Blimey thought there was just after the filter? As the filter had been modified I went to this point thinking it was the weakest link?
If in tank pump could be a shame as spending £ and time to fix a problem that ultimately will be thrown away with what's left of the car. Never mind.
By the way, apparently the whole floor is lined with Dynamat (spelling?). Does anyone know if this stuff can be re-used because if it can be I'll take it out before the shell gets scrapped.
Someone has obviously spent a lot of money on this as a show project so other hopefully some tasty salvageable goodies might arise.
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I thought these had an AFM as well. Certainly Digipants MKII 8v's have them.
Nick
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so you've got 2 mk2s, a cobra and a motorbike?
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I thought these had an AFM as well. Certainly Digipants MKII 8v's have them.
Nick
is there something i should know about my lovely injection system???? i thought k jet was the poop one
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No I just call Digipants by habit. It's not so hot in standard 8v MKII's but is much better in Digifant II guise used in MKIII 16vs.
Nick
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thought the 2.0 16v was k jet :huh:
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so you've got 2 mk2s, a cobra and a motorbike?
Yep. Not as glamorous as it sounds. All acquired carefully over time and mostly maintained by myself to keep the £ down. I've also just bought a Vitesse coupe which is a lovely old smoke to run around in while daily golf off the road, and obvioulsy this 'orrid SEAT donor car. God knows why my girlfriend loves me :smiley:
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lol, my girlfiend hates me on account of my excessive car ownership
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lol, my girlfiend hates me on account of my excessive car ownership
lol, my g/f dispairs when I say I've spotted another bargain, she wonders where I can store yet another set of rims... :grin:
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I thought these had an AFM as well. Certainly Digipants MKII 8v's have them.
Nope, no AFM on Digifant 3.2 as fitted to Golf3 16V motors.
thought the 2.0 16v was k jet :huh:
The 9A fitted to the Corrado is KE-Jet which is neither fish nor foul, but simply awful.
There is an inlet temp sensor on the airbox, there is a closed throttle switch and a throttle angle switch, as well as a manifold pressure sensor, which goes to the ECU. There are also two knock sensors. It has a rather sharper management system than earlier versions.
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The 'yellow peril' has arrived!!!!
In some ways you know when some one has a face only a Mother could love, well this car had a doting Mother, but unfortunately she's not my type!
I'll post some pictures when I can take some in daylight.
So I think broken she will be. I'm going to post a few 'what if' emails on a SEAT forum for various parts and the interior becasue a lot of the car is in excellent condition. I don't think the front seat subframes will fit a MK2 or MK3 unfortunately.
I'll update in a few days......