GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Tailpipe on 06 January 2010, 16:03
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I've just heard that VW has launched its first vehicle with the new PQ500 7-Speed DSG gearbox. (Revised Volkswagen T5.) Designed for transverse-mounted engines it can handle up to 600NM of torque!!!!!!!! This makes it ideal for high-performance vehicles like the GTI, GTD and R.
At the moment, the GTI, GTD and R all have 6-Speed gearboxes instead of 7-Speed, because the 7-Speed DSG on the Golf GT 1.4 TSI can't take the extra torque. The new DSG box will offer a wider rev range and much better fuel economy. I guess it will address EVO's concerns about the DSG in the R?
This new box will be used in the Audi TT-RS from the Summer and other VW Group models thereafter. I wonder if this new box will feature in next year's GTI and R models? Wouldn't surprise me.
What this shows is VW's relentless honing every individual component in its cars.
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What this shows is VW's relentless honing every individual component in its cars.
or copying other manufacturers. It's hardly original.
I'd love to know how big the box is. The 6spd 02M is huge.
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Unless you have a huge range of speed to cover (e.g. 0-200mph) or an engine with a short rev range or low torque, I'm not convinced you need that many gears. Unless 7th is a massive over-drive for getting better economy, in which case I care even less.
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At this rate, we'll all be driving cars with lorry-style 18-speed gearboxes! :undecided:
Seven speeds in a medium-sized hatch, FFS!? :rolleyes:
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It dosn't seem that long ago since I was so chuffed to tell the other lads at school that my Dad had traded in his 4 speed Morris Ital for a 5 speed Nissan Sunny. And it had a sunroof. (albeit an aftermarket one) :laugh:
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And it had a sunroof. (albeit an aftermarket one) :laugh:
Aftermarket sunroof? I bet it was like a swimming pool?!
I remember my first car being a D reg 5 speed Fiesta 1.4S, then upgrading to a J reg Clio 1.2 and being gutted that it only had 4 speed!
Several years later I went from a Civic Type R (6 speed) to a Citroen C2 VTS (5 speed) and I kept trying to ram it into reverse looking for sixth!!!
When driving with 6 gears I go from second or third to sixth... so I'd struggle with 7 :huh:
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I have a 7 speed PDK box in my car. You really wouldnt know it had it. It tends to be in 5th by the time you hit 30. 7th can be a bit of an overdrive, but no more so than 6th in some other cars. A number of cars Ive had with 6th sometimes have felt like they needed a 7th gear
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A number of cars Ive had with 6th sometimes have felt like they needed a 7th gear
like what?
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I have to say that when I had my first six speed car I used to try for 7th for the first few weeks.
I think that you just associate top gear being in the top right position of the gate.
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The TTS would be one. Number of times I went to change gear and I was in 6th already. I think a seven speed box will suit the R very nicely.
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but, as said, where do you stop?
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If a Veyron can make do with 7 gears, I'm sure a little Golf won't need any more.
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Lexus IS F has a 8sp box, seems pointless to me.
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i think one of the main advantages of the new DSG box isn't so much the number of gears, even though 7-speed does seem to be the preferred number of cogs among the manufacturers, but the amount of torque it can handle. I imagine that a PQ500-equipped Golf will last much longer than one with the existing 6-speed because it won't be stressed as much.
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isn't the R only about 350lbs?
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^^^350Nm, 258lbft
The only reason for replacing the 6 speed DSG with a 7 speed in the GTI/R would be to reduce fuel consumption by having a longer top gear. In a car that produces peak torque all the way from 1700 to 5200rpm and can only go up to 155mph there is no need for more than 6 gears. A Veyron has a reason for needing 7 gears - it will do 250mph.
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^^^350Nm, 258lbft
The only reason for replacing the 6 speed DSG with a 7 speed in the GTI/R would be to reduce fuel consumption by having a longer top gear. In a car that produces peak torque all the way from 1700 to 5200rpm and can only go up to 155mph there is no need for more than 6 gears. A Veyron has a reason for needing 7 gears - it will do 250mph.
Yes, Mac, but it does somewhat depend on how you configure the ratios at your disposal. Using 7th as an overdrive so you can cruise at higher speeds on motorways with less overall fuel consumption might be one way to make use of the extra cog.
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at the expense of added weight effecting the pwr
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I have read about this gearbox somewhere before. Personally, I don't think it will be offered on the present "R." On the next gen "R" there is a distinct possibility which is only 2 over years away. Also on the next "R" power should also go up as all her competitors have upped the ante. I believe the 7th gear on this new gearbox would be a sheer overdrive just like the 7th gear on Porsche's PDK. The first 6 gears will be even more closely stacked. Interesting thing is if this gearbox ever goes into the TTRS. That would be the car to go for which is something the TTRS always lack now- DSG!! Like or not surely but slowly manual will be a thing of the past.
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I have read about this gearbox somewhere before. Personally, I don't think it will be offered on the present "R." On the next gen "R" there is a distinct possibility which is only 2 over years away. Also on the next "R" power should also go up as all her competitors have upped the ante. I believe the 7th gear on this new gearbox would be a sheer overdrive just like the 7th gear on Porsche's PDK. The first 6 gears will be even more closely stacked. Interesting thing is if this gearbox ever goes into the TTRS. That would be the car to go for which is something the TTRS always lack now- DSG!! Like or not surely but slowly manual will be a thing of the past.
I believe it goes into TT-RS in June and Golf GTI, GTD and R in October.
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but, as said, where do you stop?
When they all give up and move to CVT :evil:
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Tailpipe,
I hope you are absolutely right on this one.
There have been some talk about introducing DSG on the TTRS sometime in its lifespan.
Apparently the present DSG is for for 350Nm / 258ft lb. That is equivalent to the "R" maximum torque. A lot of modified, chipped or whatever you want to call it Mk.V DSG GTIs' produce more than the quoted figure. They don't seem to have gearbox problem. It seems to me that the present DSG is far more robust than many of us would have thought. Unless you take it up to insane PS (over 400+PS) & torque (over 500+Nm) figures. It should give you miles of trouble free driving.
There is this German tuner - www.hgp-turbo.de which specializes in turbocharging Mk.V R32. They do offer various stages of tuning ranging from 400+ right up to 600+ PS. Tested by German auto magazine, it can do 0-100kph in 3.8sec & top speed of 327kph. Needles to say the it does not come cheap as well. They offer an upgrade of the DSG's clutch pack which can cope up to 600Nm of torque.
As for CVT (continuous variable transmission), is mainly for not so powerful cars in the Audi range. CVT is a belt driven gearbox & it just cannot cope with extra power & torque. Is better than a DSG in terms of fuel consumption & seamless gearchange.
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There is this German tuner - www.hgp-turbo.de which specializes in turbocharging Mk.V R32. They do offer various stages of tuning ranging from 400+ right up to 600+ PS. Tested by German auto magazine, it can do 0-100kph in 3.8sec & top speed of 327kph.
I seem to remember a twin turbo r32 at GTi Intl a few years ago showing very good performance. 327kph?? That's over 200mph isn't it?
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I seem to remember a twin turbo r32 at GTi Intl a few years ago showing very good performance. 327kph?? That's over 200mph isn't it?
327kph = 202.74mph
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I seem to remember a twin turbo r32 at GTi Intl a few years ago showing very good performance. 327kph?? That's over 200mph isn't it?
327kph = 202.74mph
:shocked:
I can't click on the link as I'm at work but that can't be on standard gearing. Certainly not the most streamlined vehicle to be in the 200 up club.
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This test was done by "Auto Bild Sport," German car magazine. Title: "Sportscars Highspeed Test Nardo 2007." They used various highly tuned up cars ranging from 3 BMs, 5 Porsches, 3 Mercs, 3 Audis, 1 Maybach, 1 Lambo & 1 VW. The fastest was an Audi MTM TT Bimoto which uses 2 1.8L turbo engine - 500PS / 1036Nm. Top speed 390.6 kph. This is a one off project by MTM & it costs Euro 600,000. You can tell straight away that the car's body has been substantially modified for aerodynamic purposes. It even has a dorsal fin just behind the roof like last year Renault F1's car. Out of the 17 cars tested the Golf R36 DSG biturbo came in 9th @ 327.6kph. This car is also the second cheapest car @ Euro 98,000 incl. of modifications. It produces 600PS / 780Nm. The expensive ones are 200,000 Euro & above. It uses a 3.6L engine & added a twin turbo to it. Slowest was a B&B Audi TT 500 @ 294.6kph. All these figures are quoted from their press release.
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The fastest was an Audi MTM TT Bimoto... Top speed 390.6 kph.
242.17mph.... :shocked:
In a TT... no thanks.
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Apparently the present DSG is for for 350Nm / 258ft lb. That is equivalent to the "R" maximum torque. A lot of modified, chipped or whatever you want to call it Mk.V DSG GTIs' produce more than the quoted figure. They don't seem to have gearbox problem. It seems to me that the present DSG is far more robust than many of us would have thought.
The DSG may well withstand far more than the rated torque figure, but long term reliability could suffer. VW's max recommended torque will be based on the gearbox components being able to exceed 100,000 miles (for example) without a statistically significant failure rate.