GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Chins on 26 December 2009, 18:58
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Looking at taking a company car again and dont want it to be far off the performance of my current steed.
Need to keep the CO2 reasonable, so my list of cars is short.
Golf R, S3 or TTS
When I spec the cars to a similar spec there is a £2k price advantage to the S3. Thats before a discount on the S3, which should be an easy £2.5k. This would take the S3 to nicely under £30k. My spec on the Golf is £33.5k and that is leaving off stuff I would like to have. The car is pretty much what I would pay for a TTS after discount.
Are people getting big discounts when they order the R?
How are VW justifying this pricing level?
Cheers
Jonathan
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^There not, its simply down to low volume production and demand.
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Are people getting big discounts when they order the R?
How are VW justifying this pricing level?
I got absolutely no discount and because of the low production levels did not expect one.
VW are playing a clever game here.
The S3 is pretty dated now and the TTS - being a 2 door coupe - is a totally different kettle of fish.
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I wouldnt disagree that the S3 is getting dated, but even a couple of years ago you didnt have to pay this pricing level.
What volumes are they talking about - it seems to be the norm that VW and Audi state low volumes to entice people. Dont always stick to their word though. TTS is a bit different, but both cars serve the same function to me
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Are people getting big discounts when they order the R?
How are VW justifying this pricing level?
I got a whopping 1.77% discount on my Golf R - and as far as I know - thats the highest! Its a limited car at the moment with each dealer only being able to get an allocation of 1 or 2. My dealer has tried putting in 7 orders and only got 2 allocations... I guess most dealers are in the same boat. If this is the case - then why give a discount at all? I was first in line due to a deposit being down in May! When I came to order - if I didn't take my no.1 slot, the next person behind me would have... and so on...
The dealer knew that this was a desirable car and he could easily sell it at full price. I only got a discount because I went in and out and in and out of there 3 times on the same day until he gave in!!
How are VW justifying their prices? They're NOT! Simple. They know there are muppets (like me!) out there who will pay over the odds to have their flagship 'fastest ever' car. £35k for a Golf. Like I said in another thread today, I could have had 2 and a bit Golf 1.4TSI's for that! I've got the cash and been waiting since March for a new car - so I'm taking it. Yes, there are people out there who can give me a whole list of used Porsches / BMW's etc I can get for £35k - but I don't want a used car.
On my mission trying to get discount I went to Audi and enquired about the S3 again. I got the salesman I got a few months back. When he loaded in all my options, he gave me NINE percent off. I asked why so high, and it was because they have a newer model coming out in less than a year.
I test drove a TTS back in June and although it was a great car to drive - it just wasn't practical for me (6ft 2" tall and play Golf every weekend!).
If you think the Golf R is too expensive, then buy a GTI and remap it!
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TTS isnt bad practicallity wise, fit a trolley and full size bag as easily in the back as the Golf.
The actual price of the R isnt the concern for me, its the fact that its £33.5k for a Golf without extras such as Sat Nav and a good phone system. I have added DSG, Leather and Upgraded Stereo to the std spec for comparison, but would also add 19's if I bought.
At 30k it would appear to OK value in context of the old R32 etc.
I have a real concern that there will be few people prepared to pay this type of money and it will take a big depreciation hit - if I kept it for over a year it would be a miracle. I know cars lose money - ive had a few hits in the past.
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TTS isnt bad practicallity wise, fit a trolley and full size bag as easily in the back as the Golf.
Try getting anyone with legs in the back seats! It also only has 2 back seats - the Golf has 3.
You can maybe get a bag and trolley in a TT, but only once you take down the back seats.
My ED30 took both of these with the back seats up!
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The resale values tend to justify the initial outlay. A good mk4 R will still fetch the happy side of 12k.
That is assuming VW don't bumf*ck the mk6 owners like they did with us mk5 R32 drivers, and reduce list price by about 25% at the end of model to get rid of the stock... (6 months after i bought a 2 yr old one i could've got a brand new one for nearly the same price, thanks vw!)
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^they decided they had made a mistake too its why they did not do the same with the stock of mk5 GTIs, i was actually waiting for them to do it with the GTIs too but all they did was pre-reg them and sell them at near new top dollar prices at dealerships.
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I don't need to justify buying an R - it's just the car I want. The S3 doesn't enthuse me and the TTS is not my type of car. I've also considered a new S4, A5 Sportback and a second hand RS4. All good cars but to be honest the only Audi I really want is an ur-quattro.
I wouldnt disagree that the S3 is getting dated, but even a couple of years ago you didnt have to pay this pricing level.
It's not a couple of years ago any more - things have changed. A lot.
I have a real concern that there will be few people prepared to pay this type of money and it will take a big depreciation hit - if I kept it for over a year it would be a miracle. I know cars lose money - ive had a few hits in the past.
Judging by resale values of every performance Golf ever made, there will be plenty of people who will be willing to pay over the odds for a second hand R in a few years. Anyway, no one realistically buys a new car not expecting to take a hit when they sell it.
That is assuming VW don't bumf*ck the mk6 owners like they did with us mk5 R32 drivers, and reduce list price by about 25% at the end of model to get rid of the stock...
You can't really blame VW for that - it's just unfortunate timing. The end of R32 production came at the same time the Government, oil industry, market speculation and the greenies all got too excited about CO2 emissions and pushed the costs of road tax and fuel up.
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TTS isnt bad practicallity wise, fit a trolley and full size bag as easily in the back as the Golf.
Try getting anyone with legs in the back seats! It also only has 2 back seats - the Golf has 3.
You can maybe get a bag and trolley in a TT, but only once you take down the back seats.
My ED30 took both of these with the back seats up!
Thats true about the TTS, but I doubt you will get a trolley bag in the back on the Golf without talking out the drivers and with the higher floor you will probably need to drop a rear seat.
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I havent got as far as asking for some finance examples as mine will be done on lease purchase with a baloon. Interested if anyone has been quoted examples so far and what the finance companies are happy to underwrite them for.
I would like to test drive one before ordering - usually dont and buy cars as they come out. Ive owned an S3 8P and TTS and there was a gulf in drivng experiences between them. If it can match the TTS then it should be ok, but if its like the S3 then it certainly wont be worth the money. That was one dull drive. Reading some of the Scirocco reports that seems more S3 than TTS, but others lean the other way.
Guess its going to be hard to get a test drive though?
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Chins, as a little heads up - The S3 (A3 in general) in due for replacement at the latter part of 2010 and as such, Audi are giving a minimum of 8% discounts with a little haggling to get rid of stock :wink:
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Chins, as a little heads up - The S3 (A3 in general) in due for replacement at the latter part of 2010 and as such, Audi are giving a minimum of 8% discounts with a little haggling to get rid of stock :wink:
Thanks for that. I had seen that, but usually the S variant is a year behind that. They have recently added the Black version to the S3 as well. The S3 isnt my favoured option after having one already.
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Thanks for that. I had seen that, but usually the S variant is a year behind that. They have recently added the Black version to the S3 as well. The S3 isnt my favoured option after having one already.
I got 9% discount without ANY haggling! When I spoke to the Audi dealer he said that the new A3 was due late 2010. I said something about the S3 being about 9 months later and he said it would likely be released at the same time. The new S4 came a week after the new A4... as did the A5 / S5. Unlike VW, they release their sports model and standard model together - then their RS model later! If you can't justify the price of a Golf R, then you'll never manage to justify £39k plus options on an RS3!
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Not sure your correct about the S4 being so close to launch as the A4. I almost bought an S4 when they came out, but the new A4 had been out for a while. The first A4's came out in spring 2008 - I bought one for one of my guys at work. The S4 only became available in Feb/Mar this year. If they released the S3 at the same time as the A3 it would be the first time ever. I bought both S3's as soon as they came out and the A3's had been out a while.
Now I would be ok with £39k plus options on an RS3 as its an RS, not an S. Wouldnt be able to put it through the company due to its high CO2/price and therefore mega company car tax. The RS brand is a step above Audis S and Volkswagens R's. Audi's at least give a good base spec on their S and RS cars unlike Volkswagen.
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Just been looking around for predicted residuals, but couldnt find them yet - guess its too early.
Found this though
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949 (http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949)
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Found this though
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949 (http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949)
Sounds like they copy and pasted what they said about the R32 :grin:
Audi have been offering them types of discount on the S3 for a while now. It was about a year after launch when you could get similar i have been watching them for a while as it was one of the cars i had on my short list. I must admit i wish i had gone for one now due to VWs hassle :angry:. Yes its the old model, it did get a facelift and at that time the new engine and running gear iirc. I don't see that as a problem i see it as a plus. It meens all the niggles, production problems, design problems have been sorted unlike a new design. I would much rather buy a car near the end of its production life for these reasons than one at the start.
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Justification= practical, fast, safe, exclusive....
.... And.... they're awesome! :smiley:
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Found this though
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949 (http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949)
Sounds like they copy and pasted what they said about the R32 :grin:
More than likely is a copy and paste but the thing is ive got a feeling thats what most reviews are going to say about Golf R compared to GTI. Hope im wrong
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It will be very interesting to see how the Golf R fairs on resale values in a few years as its nothing special, there are plenty of 4pot 2.0 turbos about and its the same car as an S3. There is no other hatchback you can buy with a 3.2 V6 and 4wd so thats why they are so strong second hand and people are willing to pay to get them, i made £1500 profit on my car - nearly had a years free motoring (excluding petrol)
Not saying the R wont do well but im curious, what with the short production run of the MK6, the fact the new Audi A3 is out soon and the new S3, RS3 will be along shortly after, both being a better car (presumably) than the Golf.
I very much hope they R drops as i would love to chuck an R36 engine in it, charge it and have the best hatchback you could buy :evil:
Just been looking around for predicted residuals, but couldnt find them yet - guess its too early.
Found this though
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949 (http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/volkswagen/golf-hatchback/2-0-tsi-270-r-5dr/summary/58949)
What a stupid comment The fastest Golf isn’t necessarily the best. We’d save ourselves a few quid and go for the GTI. It does most of what the R does, and it’ll cost you way less.
You could say he same about the GTD to the GTI, or the GT to the GTI, or the 1.6 to the GT etc etc
Idiots!
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Does your company actually buy the cars then rather than leasing them (like my company)?
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The BMW M3 and Audi S4 were on my shopping list for my next car. I was about to commit, when along came the former night-mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, with his super congestion charge / tax on anything that emitted over 225 g/ km. I was not prepared to pay the £25 per day so all bets were off. Add the fact that the new M3 is the wrong side of £50K, when the last one was not much more than £39K, and suddenly the cost of running a sports car had become stratospheric. The Audi wasn't much better, with a decent set of options easily pushing up the S4's price close to £50K. Luckily, Red Ken was not re-elected, but then by chance i rode in a friend's R32. Wow! What a car. Then along comes the Mk VI Golf in GTI and now R flavours. GTI is incredible. But the R is on another planet. Fully loaded, it is still substantially cheaper than the M3 and, best of all, it looks like a bog standard Golf, except for the tailpipes, so doesn't attract attention. I like that Q-car style. All Golfs are practical in town with 5 seats, but an R can blitz it across Europe. Add the further benefit of AWD for winter conditions and it has everything.
I am not alone in trading down from a Beemer to a VW. One other benefit: much nicer forum!
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I am not alone in trading down from a Beemer to a VW. One other benefit: much nicer forum!
Very true alot of mk5 GTI owners when it first came out came from BMWs
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The BMW M3 and Audi S4 were on my shopping list for my next car. I was about to commit, when along came the former night-mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, with his super congestion charge / tax on anything that emitted over 225 g/ km. I was not prepared to pay the £25 per day so all bets were off. Add the fact that the new M3 is the wrong side of £50K, when the last one was not much more than £39K, and suddenly the cost of running a sports car had become stratospheric. The Audi wasn't much better, with a decent set of options easily pushing up the S4's price close to £50K. Luckily, Red Ken was not re-elected, but then by chance i rode in a friend's R32. Wow! What a car. Then along comes the Mk VI Golf in GTI and now R flavours. GTI is incredible. But the R is on another planet. Fully loaded, it is still substantially cheaper than the M3 and, best of all, it looks like a bog standard Golf, except for the tailpipes, so doesn't attract attention. I like that Q-car style. All Golfs are practical in town with 5 seats, but an R can blitz it across Europe. Add the further benefit of AWD for winter conditions and it has everything.
I am not alone in trading down from a Beemer to a VW. One other benefit: much nicer forum!
i think you have pretty much nailed it there. Its becoming alot easier to downgrade... however for those wanting to upgrade its becoming alittle more difficult :embarassed:
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Have you driven the Golf R then Tailpipe ? Or do you mean Golf R is on another planet pricewise? I await reviews eagerly and a testdrive myself hoping it is not like a S3 as i and many others prefer a mk6 gti or a mk5 R32 to a S3. Hence why i havent ordered yet
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Pffft good luck getting a testdrive.
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Does your company actually buy the cars then rather than leasing them (like my company)?
We tend to buy rather than lease due to the flexibility.
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^ Thats one of the reason ours does too. It also meen if we need to keep them abit longer for any reason its not a problem.
I still think all you private 'R' orders are mad, I would never buy something i had not tried.
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Have you driven the Golf R then Tailpipe ? Or do you mean Golf R is on another planet pricewise? I await reviews eagerly and a testdrive myself hoping it is not like a S3 as i and many others prefer a mk6 gti or a mk5 R32 to a S3. Hence why i havent ordered yet
I'm not sure the S3 is worse than a MK6 GTI, that also seems to lack the soul as well. From the limited write up's so far it doesnt look like the new R is going to set the world alight and nothing to to say it will be vastly different to the S3, but like I mentioned earlier in this thread the TTS is a much nicer drivers car than the S3. Audi worked hard on items such as the exhaust and induction noise in the TTS. It did make the driving experience a lot nicer and with std Mag Ride fitted to enhance the experience.
When I bought my current car I expected to be trading it for the R in 2010. The move is a downgrade if I took the R, but I expected more for my money that VW seem to want to offer.
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I drove the S3 more or less back to back with the mk6 GTI (went from one dealer to the other, 1/4 mile up the road) and the steering feel was so much better on the GTI. I just could not live with the S3s steering.
but thats just me. :lipsrsealed:
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^ Thats one of the reason ours does too. It also meen if we need to keep them abit longer for any reason its not a problem.
I still think all you private 'R' orders are mad, I would never buy something i had not tried.
We also get the chance to change them earlier if we like - something I like to do when I have a car through my company. Keep changing from company to private.
I wouldnt normally agree about driving before buying. Ive bought many cars without driving them and usually my hunch has been backed up by a good time driving the car and the ability to change out without too much of a financial penalty. I made a bit of a mistake with the S3, but the price I paid meant the hit I took when I sold it wasnt huge. That car a couple of years ago cost me £26k. The jump to well north of the £30K doesnt seem like value to me.
Looking around for the same price you can buy a brand new S4 with the same spec as the R. Doesnt seem to be right.
i was really looking forward to the R, but as you can see I'm a bit unsure here
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Chins it looks like the R isn't for you...
Nobody should need to convince you, I know I want it, it ticks all the boxes.
Good luck :smiley:
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Have you driven the Golf R then Tailpipe ? Or do you mean Golf R is on another planet pricewise? I await reviews eagerly and a testdrive myself hoping it is not like a S3 as i and many others prefer a mk6 gti or a mk5 R32 to a S3. Hence why i havent ordered yet
Hi Carl1, no I haven't driven the R yet. But I know a man* who has and i trust his judgement. He says that the R has been finessed to a level not equalled by similar Audi offerings. The rife comfort and roadholding balance shames cars costing 3x as much. So I am confident that the R will be pretty special. Overall, I doubt whether the R will get rated as highly by the UK motoring press as the GTI. The Mk VI GTI does just about everything you need for £25,000. The R will be not notably faster in a straight line, but will also be able to put its power down more quickly when exiting corners due to its AWD. The 0-60 time is more than a second quicker, and hot laps on most circuits will show a notably faster time in the R. Yes, the R is heavier, but the extra weight it carries is well compensated by the extra power. Perhaps the real reason to have an R over a GTI is whether AWD is important to you. It is to me, because it means that its performance is usable all year round and it offers an extra degree of security. If you travel across Europe in Winter, as I do often, AWD, and winter tyres are fairly essential. A properly shod Golf runs rings around other cars.
* man = trustworthy motoring journalist who writes for highly respected UK magazine.
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So which motoring magazine is trustworthy?
Autocar and What Car have rated the R as ordinary. EVO and Performance Car are very impartial!!!, so I guess he works for CAR?
My wife used to work for a major manufacturer and worked in PR/Press, so understand how it works.
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Chins it looks like the R isn't for you...
Nobody should need to convince you, I know I want it, it ticks all the boxes.
Good luck :smiley:
I am trying. Want to use company money rather than my own. Just feel the R woud be a massive step backwards from where I am today for a small financialsaving.
What are your boxes?
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So which motoring magazine is trustworthy?
Autocar and What Car have rated the R as ordinary. EVO and Performance Car are very impartial!!!, so I guess he works for CAR?
My wife used to work for a major manufacturer and worked in PR/Press, so understand how it works.
Cars are not tested by just one journalist on a magazine. Often two or three writers will attend a launch and all write different pieces. Ultimately, the editor will decide what the party line is and the hacks will simply write their copy accordingly. Autocar will not write anything that compromises their relationship with BMW.
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Your right there. I have been to a couple of car launches and you will be amazed at the gifts that the journos get left in their room. We have had a few in our house.
You will find Performance Car far too BMW biased.