GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: topher on 17 December 2009, 21:53
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Ever the pessimist, I wasn't going to believe it until I saw it and today I had the chance to do just that!
http://www.pipercross.net/fastroad/products_venom.asp
Ignore the red pipe, the kit we tried today was all tasteful black and by far the most OEM looking off-the-shelf CAI i've ever seen. It also took less than 10 minutes to fit. They've made a special effort to make it match the existing finish of the plastics in the mk4 bay.
The victim was a 2001 1.8T GTI (AUM) - Ben's old motor, so we knew it was a 'good un' and was put back to standard when he sold it other than a remap and DV, so we could get a fair test on a standard motor rather than use my loony 1.8t :grin:
We did a session of 3 dyno runs and a held load test with the car in 4 different states of tune. After each session the engine was allowed to cool until the inlet manifold was cold to the touch, IAT reported 21 degrees at idle and the coolant was at 40 degrees then warmed to 84 degrees at the start each batch of testing. The man from Pipercross looked upset when the numbers came up on the rolling road computer, his face was priceless. But I'd been watching the data and knew there was a lot more to the story, and anyone who has been to the R-Tech workshop has probably had the lecture on average horsepower vs. peak horsepower. However here are the peak figures for you to chuckle at!
Stock filter/airbox and stock mapping. - 160 bhp
Stock filter/airbox and Spec 1 mapping.- 210 bhp
Pipercross venom and stock mapping. - 161 bhp
Pipercross venom and Spec 1 mapping. - 210 bhp
Looks pretty pointless, no? To be honest it's what I was expecting, especially with an engine/ecu that i know so well. Our VW's are too well designed to be tricked into making more peak power with air filters, the ecu knows all the time exactly how much load is being worked and will compensate within it's efficiency to always hit the same numbers. Peak numbers are pub talk, how you get there.. the average figure, is what makes a quick car. Average bhp between 2200rpm and 6800rpm was increased by about 5bhp with the CAI, whether remapped or not, and that's a lot for a simple bolt on air filter.
While Nick was showing the slightly-happier-by-this-point Pipercross dude how the average bhp is calculated by the sportdyno software I went away to find in the logs what was going on to cause this change. It didn't take long to see what was going on once the intake air temperature and measured air mass graphs were overlaid. With the Pipercross kit installed, the intake temperatures reached were decreased by as much as 9°C compared to the stock airbox on power runs and as much as 15°C under held load. That's maximum stress, the equivalent of towing a caravan up a steep hill at 5500rpm in 4th gear. Ambient air temps were between 5 - 8 °C all day thanks to the blizzard. The more efficient burn (particularly in low revs) was allowing a bit more punch between 2000 - 3500 rpm thanks to the ecu adapting timing which gave the boost in average bhp, and as an added bonus (ME7.5 ecu's only for this next part.. sorry AGU boys :tongue:) once approaching peak the fuel injection was being altered to suit and fuel consumption was noticeably decreased at high revs!
I'm not sure you can even buy these intake kits yet, but we're giving one away on Jan 10th at the charity day :smug: see the shows and events section for details.
I'll be getting one for my own 1.8T to do some longer term testing to see if it's worth making changes in my map to suit the lower temps, and also run it against a not-so-standard airbox with some topheristic DIY modifications. I'm quite looking forward to seeing how it behaves on what is probably the most bonkers 1.8T remap ever to be produced in the R-Tech office :laugh: We're also going to borrow a standard-ish AGU for a day to see what it does on a less complicated ECU.
I realise i've baffled on about stuff that probably is of no interest to most of you so i've gone back and put the important bits in bold text :grin:
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Nice. So how many moneys are they then!?
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of intrest to me :wink: nice write up there chris you can tell me all about it next week then :smiley:
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Nice. So how many moneys are they then!?
Dunno yet, he couldn't say for sure. I'll try to find out when i email the logs over tomorrow.
of intrest to me :wink: nice write up there chris you can tell me all about it next week then :smiley:
will do mate, i actually thought of you when i first saw it.. i know how you like things to be tidy and oem!
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of intrest to me :wink: nice write up there chris you can tell me all about it next week then :smiley:
will do mate, i actually thought of you when i first saw it.. i know how you like things to be tidy and oem!
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absolutely :afro: you know me well enough by now :grin: am impressed now :wink:
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I think the results are fairly obvious. Probably the same with most performance airfilters.
Peak power isn't increased, but power going up some of the rev range is, that's why the throttle response always feels so good compared with stock.
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Stuff we've tested previously made f*ck all difference, and i'd have been on here moaning about it if i could afford a good lawyer :grin: The stock mk4 airbox is pretty hard to beat.
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Can't comment on mk4's, never had one.
All the cars that i've used the crude 'drill the airbox' and k&n panel filter have had that affect.
I've never dyno'd it so can't prove it, however the general feel of the power delivery is a perkier mid range, but no extra peak.
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Drilling doesn't work, tried that. You can mackle together a cold air feed but even that was no better than a smoothed airbox with the dsg mod.
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If you want another tuned 1.8T to test on you know where to find me! Need a new CAI as im frightened of drinking puddles with mine!
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Drilling doesn't work, tried that. You can mackle together a cold air feed but even that was no better than a smoothed airbox with the dsg mod.
It would of been interesting to test my old vr6, out of all the cars i have owned, drilled box and filter certainly felt alot more responsive.
With a stock box and filter the vr6 felt quite flat up to 4000rpm, then really flew.
When it was 'modded' the car felt more responsive from 2500rpm, but i would say with no extra top end power.
Just an opinion, not based on a rolling road.
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Yep similar principle, but apples and oranges. Add forced induction and a much much more complex ecu into the mix things get a bit trickier.
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I've actually got a question about 1.8T(sorry for changing the subject).
My dad's 2001 A4 code AVJ. The throttle feels too sensitive, as in you can't change gear without revving up on the clutch.
What would cause this?
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does it over rev when you put the clutch in to change gear at all? if so i suspect clutch pedal switch.. if not then a throttle body clean might cure it.
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I read a thread about cai's by an American tuner a while back,makes for interesting reading.I'll see if i can dig it out.
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That is a grat right up Topper. was very iontrested in every thing you had to say there and i cant wait to see what you conclude after using the kit on other cars. (if you need a agu car im avalable :) )
Wil be intresting how much the kit will sell for at the end.
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That is a grat right up Topper
been a long day mate? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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let me know if you need a proper engine to test with these kits :tongue: :laugh: :laugh:
None of this petrol burning sh!te :grin: :grin:
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does it over rev when you put the clutch in to change gear at all? if so i suspect clutch pedal switch.. if not then a throttle body clean might cure it.
Its like i've still got my foot on throttle when i depress the clutch, but i obviously haven't!!
I have to leave a second between coming off the gas, and going on the clutch.
The problem is worse with full throttle, and high up the rev range, so its hard to cane it :grin:
I've tried a throttle body alignment, VAG-com shows no codes.
Its been like it for 2 years since he bought it, it had 25k on it then, now it has 45k.
Thanks for any advice.
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I've started another topic on this now :cool:
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Looking at the link the civic and clio filters are £169.99 rrp, So The golf will probably be about the same. Lot of money for an air filter.
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We're also going to borrow a standard-ish AGU for a day to see what it does on a less complicated ECU.
Mine isn't doing much :tongue:
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We're also going to borrow a standard-ish AGU for a day to see what it does on a less complicated ECU.
Mine isn't doing much :tongue:
it never does :rolleyes:
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Poor girl is sat on the drive covered in snow feeling sorry for herself. I'm too hung over to drive it though! :grin:
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Have a read of this Chris
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=257109&highlight=intakes+101
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That is a grat right up Topper
been a long day mate? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
As you will find out by reading my other post Dark my Spelling is unforchernetly not as good as other forum members :undecided: :embarassed:
Somthing i was born with :(. I Don't mind the jokes thow :smiley: as long as thay dont get insulting.
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That is a grat right up Topper
been a long day mate? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
As you will find out by reading my other post Dark my Spelling is unforchernetly not as good as other forum members :undecided: :embarassed:
Somthing i was born with :(. I Don't mind the jokes thow :smiley: as long as thay dont get insulting.
nobodys perfect matey! :wink: