GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Jay on 08 November 2009, 17:29
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Righto then... ummmm... feeling pretty stupid right now :embarassed:
Cut a long story short, I drove through a stream that looked ALOT shallower than what it is!
I thought I would be able to make it because it looked OK... got 1/2 way then the car just cut out, seems the middle dips down and it was almost up to the window
Managed to get pulled out by a passerby (who just so happens to have a large Land Rover Discovery 3 with winch ... wonder why... :rolleyes: ) got recovered home eventually after waiting almost 2 hours in soaked clothes in the freezing cold and now have the car sitting outside.
While waiting for the recovery man my brother in law who came too see if he could help (take the P!ss more like ) said to try crank it over after we had waited for it to drain out as much as it would, the starter motor never spun (thankfully!) and there was nothing other than a short 'DURR', we called a mechanic my brother in law knows and he said not to try start it because it can cause a hydro lock and bend the rods or some catastrophic failure to that effect.
So do I just let it sit for a day or two then change the oil and oil filter and try crank it over?
What else should I do? and what else should I look for?
To say I am gutted is an understatement :cry: Remember it's a Turbo Diesel,
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You need to drain the oil first off. Then get the injectors and glo plugs out and turn the engine over by hand. You could even turn it over on the starter for a couple of seconds. No harm will come to it. Change the oil filter and fill with oil. Refit the injectors and glo plugs and try starting it. You need to do this sooner rather than later though or the bores can start glazing over with rust very quickley.
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Thanks! I'll try do that tomorrow, I'm still trying to up warm at right now :sick:
The cambelt looks OK and I didn't see any holes in the engine, so hopefully the internals are good to go.
The electrics seem OK because the lights on the dash come on as per normal, GP light comes on and goes off in the same amount of time, central locking still works etc...
Now remind me why I wanted a lowered Golf instead of fixing my 4x4 Frontera? :laugh:
At least I'm not the only idiot, the recovery guy said I was at least the 3rd person this week he knew of... :undecided:
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if the engine cut out, and the starter couldn't move the crank.. i would assume the damage is already done :undecided:
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I don't think the starter spun at all, because it was a really quick noise when trying to turn it over and not a constant trying to crank over noise... :undecided: if that makes sense...
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How quick did you go through it?
How much throttle were you using at the time?
Is the airfilter wet?
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How quick did you go through it?
How much throttle were you using at the time?
Is the airfilter wet?
I didn't go through quick at all, I didn't give it that much throttle ( I know you should ) because I didn't think it would get as high as the exhaust. I think some water got in the air filter.
This is what I'm ordering from GSF.
98081A FUCHS UNI DIESEL 15W40 5L DIESEL/TD ENGINES NOT PD OR LONGLIFE
MMW940/25 OIL FILTER-MANN
11637 SUMP PLUG
11638 SEAL-SUMP DRAIN PLUG
MMC31152/1 AIR FILTER-BQ G2 1.6 Turbo Diesel 8/89 >10/91
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Before ordering and potentially wasting money i would pull the injectors and glow plugs out and try turning the engine by hand to make sure it does still turn.
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Too late, just ordered that stuff. If I don't use it I'm sure they'll take it all back.
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Before ordering and potentially wasting money i would pull the injectors and glow plugs out and try turning the engine by hand to make sure it does still turn.
As above I would remove the injectors and see if it turns over, I would suspect the damage is done however.
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I remeber a mate of mine said his dad did exactly the same thing last year. He said he took all the plugs out and turned it over for 30 secs with the plugs out and bonnet open. Plugs back in dizzy cap off and wiped dry with tissue, put it back on and it started straight away!
Worth a try?
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i remember brother in law doin same thing in his 1 year old peugeot diesel .......... air filter is bottom of the engine near wheel and sucked up the water = new engine
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Fortunately my air filter is in the same position as the MK2 GTI's and looks like it might have got a bit in.
The diesel forum sounds a bit more optimistic.
tbh, if the engine is fried it'll just get stored until I get it sorted and get a new car (been looking @ Golf Plus & Sharan's for the last few weeks) or an engine swap.
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Jay I have a 1.9td AAZ sitting in my garage with full loom, dash clocks etc!
Could be up for more power me thinks! haha
Ad :cool:
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Shiet, its a diesel... ignore what i put :laugh:
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they are tough littel donks.
really depnds how meany revs you had on and how much water it gulped. if you din't have to meany revs on and it took a big gulp it'll probaly fire straight up once dryed out.
damage is done when it hydrolocks right at the top of the stroke if it dose it half way up it has much more chance of surviveing. you'll soon know anyway, if it bounces round the engine bay like an epilectic in lazer quest it's knackerd if not once your past about 200 miles you got away with it
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if it bounces round the engine bay like an epilectic in lazer quest it's knackerd
:grin:
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Jay I have a 1.9td AAZ sitting in my garage with full loom, dash clocks etc!
Could be up for more power me thinks! haha
Ad :cool:
How much would you want for it? :smiley:
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My mates garage had an S4 in it where the fella had piled through a puddle a bit too enthusiastically and it sucked up enough water to crack 2 piston crowns!
Lets hope yours didn't inhale the same!
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Jay I have a 1.9td AAZ sitting in my garage with full loom, dash clocks etc!
Could be up for more power me thinks! haha
Ad :cool:
How much would you want for it? :smiley:
Not sure really mate, will have a think. You should be able to use your existing gearbox too I believe!
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Yeah, and the GTD pump and injectors... twin turbo? :evil:
Weren't you gonna pop the AAZ in your caddy? or have you changed plans?
Hopefully I can sort the SB, but if you do want rid of the AAZ let me know :wink:
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... twin turbo? :evil:
on a 4cyl......yeah, great.
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1, where was my phone call :undecided:
2, where are the piccies :nerd:
3, yes, yes i am a cnut :smug:
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2, where are the piccies :nerd:
3, yes, yes i am a cnut :smug:
yes... :grin:
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Jay, you're a numpty.
Glowplugs out, spin it over, see how it sounds. Dump the oil and swap some new in. Then try and spin it over on the starter, with the stop solenoid disconnected.
You might like to check you've not popped the fused link on the glowplugs after the immersion, too.
If it's toast then an AAZ using your injector pump and injectors will see good power. It should all just bolt up with your ancilliaries, too.
You got a Golf instead of repairing the Frontera because the Frontera is minging gash rubbish.
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Jay, you're a numpty.
Yup that's me. Lesson learnt though. Water IS deeper than what it looks, don't attempt to cross.
No one has said to spin over on the starter with the FSS disconnected, that without the GP's in? and the reasoning for that is just to pump out any extra water in the cyl's right?
The electrics seem OK, dash lights come on as does the GP light and goes off in the usual time.
If it does turn out to be fubar'd I'll store it until I can get an AAZ (looking at a real family car now anyway so this will become a toy either way, maybe just sooner than expected), though I've the AAZ is not as rev happy as the SB because of the longer stroke, but with the gov mod, ' Max fuel screw' and some other pump mods along with blocking the W/G and a MBC I'm sure it'll be even more fun.
I'm still tempted to store the Frontera and eventually fix it and have some mudding fun, SWB stylie.
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fronteras urgh nasty. that said i did meet a very nice one today managed to value extract 40 ltrs of petrol from it worth more than it was :smiley:
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I'm still tempted to store the Frontera and eventually fix it and have some mudding fun, SWB stylie.
No no no.
There are much better, lighter bases to build something to play with from. Google AWDC 4x4 trialing to see how much fun you can have at about 5mph.
The reason for disconnecting the stop solenoid and removing the glowplugs is exactly to spin the motor over to get any remaining water out of the bores and it's also safer to get an idea of whether it will turn over happily without it running.
When you say 'rev-happy' bear in mind that compression ignition motors don't rev over approx 4750RPM under any circumstances, so it's not like you're talking about chalk and cheese here, more mild cheddar to slightly more mature cheddar. The worthwhile mod are the injectors and the enrichment diaphragm - it's much more aggressive on the SB and RA motors, which is what gives them their punch (and smoke).
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I'm still tempted to store the Frontera and eventually fix it and have some mudding fun, SWB stylie.
No no no.
I was joking, calling a bloke I used to work with who does recovery etc and will give me £40 for it. Gonna rob the spare wheel which is 100% perfect and unused and flog it for w/e on egay.
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Bloody arse! :angry:
At first I wanted to have Wednesday off to fix it, then they changed their mind 10mins later, so it became Thursday, again they needed to change plans, so it became Friday (score 4 day weekend) then again and it became Thursday, then and it became Friday again now I've got to do it Saturday!
F@ck sake, I hope the cylinders haven't started rusting :sick:
Thank f@ck I've got Monday off too.
Almost tempted to get Crazy Quiffs to have a look at it tomorrow so I can try get the interior dried out over the weekend.
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so I can try get the interior dried out over the weekend.
Where the hell is this "stream"? You sure it wasn't the Thames!
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Down sarf in the middle of nowhere.
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Down sarf in the middle of nowhere.
On the back of Portsdown Hill by any chance?
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Nope, it has no name according to some locals who walked by while I was on the phone to recovery trying to figure out where I was.
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Well, turned her over by hand (pushing her back and forth, it was like a water works! :laugh:
Then when enough water had come out, we pushed her back and forth for a few more minutes at which point she started to sound like a steam train (just pushing air out and was moving freely). So cranked her over with just the starter motor (GP's out and FSS disconnected) a few times, and it's sounding promising.
I've put the fuel rail, GP's, bus bar and connected the FSS again and tried cranking her over... :sad: :cry: :embarassed:
Flat battery :grin: Just waiting for my brother in law to get here so I can jump start her and hopefully she'll work! F@cking soaked, sinking of diesel and shivering cold... off to get a cuppa.
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Well tried jumping it off the outlaws Zafira, giving it a few minutes with some revs on his side to charge the battery a bit and still nawt, tried a few times then gave up for the night and for some curry.
Will try again in the moring, maybe take the battery back to Halfords for a new one too.
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I havent really come up with a price for the td lump mate cos Im not sure what its worth but it had a turbo rebuild or a reconditioned/ second hand one fitted not to many miles ago cos it failed the mot on Black smoke a year back lol.
If its any good throw an offer my way, Im sure I could also help with transport
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so, did it start ? :lipsrsealed:
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so, did it start ? :lipsrsealed:
Nope, bag of f@cking nails at first then it grenaded, threw a rod and put a hole in the engine, been down the hospital with my brother in law since 11am as he was standing in front of it when this happened and got said rod in the eye*
Almost and the engine seems to turn over OK, running it up and down the car park again today with the GP's out (sounding like a steam train pushing the air out). Got a new battery from Halfords, the other was knackered... :lipsrsealed:
It was looking more hopeful, I think there is just water in the fuel now as the GP light flashes when waiting for them to warm up. I don't have the facilities/storage for that volume of liquid to drain the tank, nor do I have high pressure air lines to blow the lines clean.
Come across a major stumbling block though... GP #1 doesn't want to screw in correctly and goes in at a slight angle, when cranking her over there was smoke coming out of GP #1 hole because of this.
I'm thinking a Helicoil repair job @ Crazy Quiffs providing they can with having to remove the head... Along with draining the tank, blowing out the fuel lines.
Oh I also sold the Frontera :grin: :laugh:
*This may not have actually happened.
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so its fcuked then :grin:
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so its fcuked then :grin:
No, because it can be sorted with a little work :tongue:
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Nope, bag of f@cking nails at first then it grenaded, threw a rod and put a hole in the engine, been down the hospital with my brother in law since 11am as he was standing in front of it when this happened and got said rod in the eye*
*This may not have actually happened.
did this happen or not? :huh:
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so its fcuked then :grin:
No, because it can be sorted with a little work :tongue:
hopefully :smiley:
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You need to clean the thread on the hole for the glowplug, or try another one - it *might* go in square. I've found before now that if you're determined about this sort of thing, provided you've not been too aggressive about screwing in the glowplug cross-threaded, if you hold it square it'll sometimes hold steady on the 'right' path and screw in.
Just make sure you're not struggling because there's junk in either the plug threads, or the head threads.
Oh and quit trying to start it with a glowplug out - are you TRYING to kill it?!
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did this happen or not? :huh:
No :grin: Pity, because my brother in law could do with a face lift the ugly f@cker :laugh:
so its fcuked then :grin:
No, because it can be sorted with a little work :tongue:
hopefully :smiley:
CQ want £400-£500 for head off and rethreading of the GP hole, this means timing belt change, head gasket change, retime injection pump and engine, change GP relay as this might cause the GP light to flash fooling you into thinking it's water in the fuel (although there could be water in the fuel filter too) drain fuel tank if required and blow out the fuel lines. :sick:
The question, is it worth it on a cat c ? :huh: I tempted because as you've seen chuff the shell is pretty good (bar the small dents in the arse end).
DH, the problem is it's GP for cyl #1 which is right behind the IP at a b@stard angle, I tried 2 different GP's their threads are still 100% after going in and coming out and checking them over and I tried getting something in there to clean it but it's such an awkward place.
If I was confident in timing up the engine & IP I'd whop the head off and have CQ rethread the hole and refit the head myself, but I don't have the dial gauge or any tools to do it properly, as well as no where to do it.
EDIT:
Just had a thought, my uncle was trying to be helpful yesterday and only put 1 of the 2 cables that go to the GP Bus bar on and when we cranked her over they saw a flash from the GP relay cage area, so that's £30 to replace with a similar relay as the OE's for this engine are discontinued and were £75...
I might give try the GP another try with a tube of thread lock or if someone can recommend something stronger or more heat resistant, I'll give that a go.
So for the price of some high temp thread lock type stuff and a new relay, I might get her working again :smiley:
Had a change of mind, £400 (or up to £500+) on a Cat C, is a lot of money! So looks like I've got a project, just need a place to store it until I can get the tools and do it myself!
I'll be looking @ newer cars sooner now, the Jetta 140TDI's are very appealing with the large boot space, Golf Plus don't seem to have that much more space than a normal Golf... The Sharan's are also appealing with the large boot space when the 2 rear seats are removed.
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Jay,
you have a new bambino on the way
you cat c'd it and got some cash back - did you not,
its caused you a FAIR bit of grief,
you cant get it to your house without decking it
and you have already said you are getting a sharan or similar.
its a cat c
cut your losses, sell it as a going concern and stick the 500 sheets into the new motor.
just my views like. i know these things, i sold my 2 VERY cheap as i couldnt warrant spending out on summat that effectively i didnt need ( or want i my case )
you effectlively have a car for free there, after the insurance payout, so can sell on and add further to the new car fund.
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I know what you're saying mate, but I won't get much for the little bugger and the bigger / newer car is a defo anyway which we've started sorting out already (pre-submarine duty). I *should* also be getting a substantial increase soon, so that will cover the Jetta/Golf Plus/Sharan (w/e we decide on) easily, with some money each month to a project car.
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true mate,
but again
1, it doesnt owe you much if anything :wink:
2, current locat - where are you doing this project ? :tongue:
3, bambino - when will you do this project :laugh:
4, wife - does she know about this project. :grin:
5. cat c - not a good basis for a project. :wink:
but hey, i drive a skoda :cool:
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1. Not much :grin:
2. Brother in laws garage, he's got loads of space :evil:
3. On weekends while we go visit my sister :grin It'll keep my brother in law, his eldest son and me out of trouble :laugh:
4. Yes, she said OK as long as I don't go OTT :shocked: :grin:
5. Not the most ideal base, but for a track slag/strip runner it would do, that way the body work won't matter :laugh:
I am tempted to put thread lock on the GP, shove it in tight & change the GP relay and try start her, if she doesn't work sell the GP relay on (£30) and store her. If she does work, run her till MOT time as a daily and save on the new car's mileage, then shove her in the outlaws or brother in laws garage and eventually break her or shove another engine in.
So for £35 (gotta be worth a punt?) I might get her running, only problem is it won't be till the weekend now as I go back to work tomorrow and it's too dark by the time I get home to f@ck about in a area I can barely get my hands in and changing the oil in the dark is no fun :laugh:
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Praps sommat like this (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/thread_compounds/thread_repair/Permatex_Stripped_Thread_Repair.htm) to repair the thread in the GP hole? :huh:
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mate, unless you are 100% certain that NO debris from the now fcuked thread has gone into the pot its HEAD off time :huh:
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Technically it could be injector pump off, rather than head off, then get it timed in roughly and if you're not happy with the output, get a diesel specialist to time the pump in properly (or move the pump about until you are happy with the output - let's not over-intellectualise this here).
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injector pumps arnt hard to set. spin engine to TDC and paint pen the belt and pully, and the angel of the pump.
can allways feel for output by blocking up the frount wishbones so the wheels are off the ground and going full throttel against the brakes in 4th or 5th
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Cheers Danny, I was thinking about doing that, but what about re-tensioning the belt etc? In theory it should be tensioned correctly if the pump is in the exact same position as it was previously shouldn't it?
A couple guys on the IDI Derv forum have figured out an easy way to set the timing using an M8 x 1mm x 50mm bolt which doesn't require a dial gauge, just the bolt & a disc with 100th's to indicate timing advance... but we're still waiting for the guy who developed them (and the diesel resistant indicators on the disc) to start making them, which won't happen till the new year I think.
Just read a post on the derv forum, the guy who was going to make them had a hissy fit because the guy who originally thought of the idea wanted his 'slice' of the profits, which there were going to be none of. So there goes a cheap timing tool. Bugger.
Anyone want to get a load of M8 x1mm x50mm bolts, add a pointer and a separate indicator disc (in 100th's) and create a timing tool for IDI engines, there were plenty of people who wanted them on the IDI forum.
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Cheers Danny, I was thinking about doing that, but what about re-tensioning the belt etc? In theory it should be tensioned correctly if the pump is in the exact same position as it was previously shouldn't it?
No, because the pump is on three bolts and moves around to time, keeping the tension and changing the pump timing appropriately.
Smart them 1970's VW boffins.
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any updates Jay :undecided:
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Nope, been ill all week and need the glow plug relay my uncle fried which I'll order from Beavis tomorrow.