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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: gor131-x on 07 November 2009, 17:00

Title: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 07 November 2009, 17:00
Ive been getting a really strong smell of raw unburnt fuel inside th car,yesterday it got so bad that i had to pull over,switch car off,open all doors and stand outside until it was breathable.
 any idea what it could be,ive bought oil filter,fuel filter spark plugs and oil to get it serviced but i want to sort this problem out, if any before i do the service.

oh and the fuel economy is crap,20 quid gets me just about to a 100 miles

ive had a look at the engine and i noticed a pipe disconnected,what is this?
and also i did a search and some guys said the coolant sensor is a blue type thing at the front,i havent gota   blue one,ive got a yellow one and a blank,is that right?

car is a 1.4 AEX engine code

Pics

whats this?the pic is from under the airbox at the back and has it got anything to do   with my fuel smell problem?
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/gor131-x/07112009685.jpg)

and is this suppsoed to have a blank next to the yellow sensor (by the way,whats that one for?)
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/gor131-x/07112009687.jpg)
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/gor131-x/07112009688.jpg)

any help appreciated and im not driving the car until this smell is sorted,

thanks
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gtigolfthree on 07 November 2009, 17:15
Fuel leak some where.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Mikester on 07 November 2009, 19:04
Fuel leak some where.

Genius.

You are a genuis.

Are you experiencing any running issues? Along with the smell?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 07 November 2009, 20:08
Fuel leak some where.

yeah i figured that part out :shocked:

it runs fine,the idle sits at 600rpm and you have to give it a bit of throttle before setting off or you'll just stall it but it is only a 1.4 so im thinking thats normal

apart from that,its drinking a lot,like i said,i put in £20 and im on 82 miles and im halfway into reserve
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gtigolfthree on 07 November 2009, 20:24
 :laugh: :laugh: You need to follow your fuel line from the tank to the engine and find that leak and be carefull petrol is really dodgy stuff. Sorry you already know that.  :grin:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: justalex81 on 07 November 2009, 20:26
if you have difficulty seeing then use a lighter. Make sure you hold it close to your face to get the most visibility  :grin:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 07 November 2009, 23:13
Is that pipe in the first pic a crankcase breather pipe?
Split or disconnected crankcase ventilation hoses can cause fuel smells in the cabin.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 07 November 2009, 23:15
Long shot but maybe the tank sender seal has let go.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: shepgti on 07 November 2009, 23:41
Is that pipe in the first pic a crankcase breather pipe?
Split or disconnected crankcase ventilation hoses can cause fuel smells in the cabin.

agree, sort that busted pipe out and see if it still smells
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: davero on 08 November 2009, 00:00
Is that pipe in the first pic a crankcase breather pipe?
Split or disconnected crankcase ventilation hoses can cause fuel smells in the cabin.
As mentioned before, this is your most likely culprit, in my experience, the mark3 is very sensitive to breathing issues, replace this hose and take it from there.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 08 November 2009, 00:52
is that the one that normally goes into the airbox? and if so,can i put a silicone hose on and one of those pipercross small mesh round filter things on it?run it from there to the front of the car

but if it is the airbox then why is the breather pipe facing downwards and not upwards towards the airbox? (sorry if im on the wrong lines)
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 08 November 2009, 00:57
errrr...........i just checked to the oil now and the oil filler cap has got a mayo type sludge on it,please say its not the head going!!!car has done 147k for a 1.4 aex engine,but still purrs and pulls fantastic with no smoke whatsoever

anyone figure out what the yellow connector is in the pic and is the space next to it suppose to be blank?

im panicking now,only had the car a month or so and didnt expect all this to happen...aaaargh!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: justalex81 on 08 November 2009, 10:36
the mayo could just be condensation. check your oil for milkyness and check your water for oil (it'll be brown)
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Mikester on 08 November 2009, 15:44
The mayo could be related to your split breather hoses. I would sort out the breather hoses, clean the throttle body as it will be gunked up from the split pipe, oil change and filter change, and go from there.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 08 November 2009, 18:23
are there 2 pipes like that in that area? i.e. crank case breather hose and an oil breather hose or is it the same thing?

ive got a cone filter on at the moment as thats how it came,could i get a metal pipe with a nipple in the side and put breather hose into that or would i have to put one of those little mesh filters on

also,tried finding the thread on taking off and cleaning 1.4 throttle body,anybody got links as im sure theres a how to somewhere,just cant find it!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: rubjonny on 09 November 2009, 08:59
as already said, there is a rubber seal around your fuel pump, which is sat in the fuel tank I'd say its probably that.
even with a fuel leak in the engine bay i doubt it would get so bad that you would have to pull over to get some fresh air (ask me how I know!)

lift up the boot carpet and you'll see a metal disc, remove this and you'll see the fuel pump. make sure its not swimming in fuel, check both fuel pipes aqre connected properly and lift the pump out to check the rubber seal.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 09 November 2009, 10:52

and lift the pump out to check the rubber seal.


Not as easy as that sounds John!  :wink:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: rubjonny on 09 November 2009, 11:54
2 fuel clips and a large plastic nut? whats so hard about that? ;)
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 09 November 2009, 13:47
Well I had all sorts of problems "lifting the fuel pump out"

Ended up taking out the whole tank coz I couldnt see how it was fixed in! Now I know, well it is relatively easy!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: rubjonny on 09 November 2009, 14:54
ah ok. the pump itself is locked to the tank also, you twist it to release then lift :)

printed this off Elsa just for you :)
http://vwtech.no-ip.info/downloads/g3fuelpump.pdf
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 09 November 2009, 15:33
I tried the twisting! Thats how I broke the hose connection on the pump!  :angry:  :laugh:

What I found in the end was that there are 3 prongs on the cradle and a rubber bung thing in each. If you push out these bungs you can then lift the pump! Its not easy as you have to get a finger in between the pump and the prong.

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 09 November 2009, 18:09
so even though the smell is coming from the front(thats where i THINK its coming from) it could be coming from the rear from the pump in the fuel tank?

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 09 November 2009, 20:03
If its as bad as you say IN the car then has to be!
If it was in the engine bay you would only get it coming in from the air vent.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 10 November 2009, 00:16
2 fuel clips and a large plastic nut? whats so hard about that? ;)

What's easy about it? it's usually stuck solid.
You must have the magic touch  :tongue:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 10 November 2009, 09:30
I used a big metal bar and a hammer to budge the big plastic nut!  :grin:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 13 November 2009, 15:30
right guys,ive changed the oil,oil filter,fuel filter and spark plugs,.

i thought i'd change the thermostat,when i opened the hose,the pin was there but the rest of the thermostat was not to be seen! so i fitted a new thermostat and literally an hour or so after changing it,the car started overheating. its been a few days and now its too bad to drive,
 a few questions:

1. can the thermostat only go in one way? ive put the pin of the thermostat into the flange connected to the radiator hose

2. without sounding stupid,is the thermostat faulty? even though the car didnt have one before!

3. when i open the header tank,all the water expels out of that,and there are big bubbles,does that mean head gasket gone?

4.the possible options ive read up on are water pump failure,radiator blocked,thermostat or headgasket.any other possibilities?

im checking the thermostat now with the boiling water test in a pan to see if thats faulty or not,will keep you posted!

thanks
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: rubjonny on 13 November 2009, 15:42
have a read thru this:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=106380.0

afaik the stat will only fit in 1 way?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 15 November 2009, 02:56
right ill have alook at all that,tahnks for the link!

oh and i took out the thermostat and connected teh hose up with no thermostat,the car temperature needle is always at 0 but its not overheating or anything,so eithe a faulty thermostat or the radiator is blocked

also when i opened the radiator hos where the thermostat is,the half the thermostat was in the engine block and the other half was in the flange!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 03 December 2009, 23:37
head gasket was gone :sad: :sad: :sad:

ive put a new engine in,my car is a 97 model and the engine is out of a 95 model,the gearbox is the original from the car,ive used the clutch from the 95 model,everything put back together and theres still a few niggles:

when i dab the throttle, the car feels like it misses a beat before revving up and it revs down slowly,im guessing the garage guy hasnt put a new gasket when he transferred the throttle body over from the old engine,if not then what could it be?

also,when i start the car,it sounds really rough and the whole car shakes,i had a new timing belt kit and water pump put in,could it be the garage guy has knocked the timing out?

oh and i still have the problem with the fuel,i can smell raw unburnt fuel,is it the fuel pump? lambda probe?

and is it safe me driving the car in this state until these things are sorted,especially if the timing has been knocked out?


so close yet so far from perfect!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: shepgti on 03 December 2009, 23:47
why did you change the whole engine if nlythe gasket was gone?  :undecided:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 03 December 2009, 23:49
the engine was knackered,according to garage guy,the insides had been damaged too,145k miles and wasnt looked after either by the looks of it
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: shepgti on 03 December 2009, 23:53
the engine was knackered,according to garage guy,the insides had been damaged too,145k miles and wasnt looked after either by the looks of it

but it ran fine and wasnt the reason for the fuel smel as its still there..
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 03 December 2009, 23:56
fuel smells still there,amidst the fuel problem,the engine had gone so just got the car up and running today after 2 eeks sat in the garage
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 04 December 2009, 00:01
fuel smells still there,amidst the fuel problem,the engine had gone so just got the car up and running today after 2 eeks sat in the garage

My guess would be a blocked breather.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 04 December 2009, 00:02
is that the pipe that goes from the back of the engine,up and into the airbox?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 04 December 2009, 00:03
is that the pipe that goes from the back of the engine,up and into the airbox?

Yep, also worth checking the block on the cam cover.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 04 December 2009, 00:09
any pics? block cover? is that where the oil filler cap goes?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 04 December 2009, 00:22
any pics? block cover? is that where the oil filler cap goes?

Yes, to the side of it is a black block, thats the breather, check the seal where it pushes into the cover.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 04 December 2009, 00:24
sorry mate ive lost you,on one side is the timing belt cover,and on the other side is the distributer,wheres the block cover?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: col on 04 December 2009, 00:33
why not take it back to garge guy tell him sort it?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: shepgti on 04 December 2009, 00:37
sorry mate ive lost you,on one side is the timing belt cover,and on the other side is the distributer,wheres the block cover?

the rocker cover.. the black box to the left of the vw logo :wink:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 04 December 2009, 00:47
im not happy with the garage guy,he teels me to get bits without even checking whether it is that or not

shepgti,i havent got a black box on the left of the vw logo? theres the timing belt cover (which is black)

anyone got a pic?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 04 December 2009, 00:48
sorry to sound like an idiot,not a clue as iv never had to deal with something like this,ive been looking on forums since 9 o clock and gave up on the search option as too many different posts and mainly gti related
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 04 December 2009, 08:45
take it to a decent garage, get them to sort it.  They'll be able to do a fuel pressure test which will show whether its a leak in the system or not.

Sounds like you still have a fuel leak, now combined with a misfire (the vibration & lumpyness).  BTW - if its misfiring you should drive it.

James
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Ben Lessani on 04 December 2009, 09:26
No-ones asked yet, but is it a fuel smell - or exhaust fume smell?

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 04 December 2009, 14:01
NOW THE CAR WONT START!
i tried starting it this morning,its chugging but not starting,ive not even touched the throttle to suggest that i'd flooded it,ive got more problems than when i first started with it.

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 04 December 2009, 14:19
you can't flood electronic injection - the ECU won't let you.

Get a proper garage / mechanic to look at it.

James
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 04 December 2009, 15:36
Difficult if he cant get it to a garage/mechanic!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 05 December 2009, 19:27
a mobile mechanic then...

James
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 13 December 2009, 17:47
right guys,second bit of bad luck,the second engine i got which was idling bad and the fuel smell and didnt start the next day,the reason was oil had got into the throttle body,the piston rings had gone,that engine hadnt done 70k,mor like 170k miles,anyway phoned the scrappy i got it off and he happily refunded the money,

went and got another engine, its AEX code but the mountings didnt fit,upon further enquiry fom this scrappy,it was from a polo and he "thought" it was from a golf,sooooooooo tok the engine back,finally found an engine that was still in the golf,mileage on the cluster was 73k and same engine code,go the engine,had it fitted yesterday and absolutely fantastic engine.

i need to adjust the clutch a bit more as the biting point is way too high and ill get the oil changed in a couple of weeks too.

3 problems left which i think are connected

1. i topped up £15 yesterday and it got me 28 miles!!!!!!! whats up with that

2.th fuel smell is still there,so i can rule out anything in the engine as ts a new one,could it be the fuel pump?

3.when stationary,the car is at 90degrees,when i start driving,it drops to zero,im going to change thermostat,temp sender tomorrow and hope that fixes it but could this be the reason why its drinking fuel soo much or is that a totally seperate problem altogether

thanks guys
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 13 December 2009, 19:58
bump anyone got ideas?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 13 December 2009, 20:55
If the fuel smell is that strong, then follow your nose?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 14 December 2009, 09:04
As above maybe you have a leak.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 14 December 2009, 20:19
right done a few things today,went to gsf and bought a coolant temp sensor,thermostat and new expansion tank and blue cap.

fitted them all today and noticed the smell has gone down a lot,

and befor ewhen i was driving,the temperature would go to zero,it still does but at least the heaters are nice and warm unlike before where they would go cold when the temperature dropped.

ive put in 10 pounds worth of fuel and going to see if the fuel economy has improved,will keep you updated on that.

the car is juddering sometimes or hesitant,im sure its the timing,ive adjusted it slightly from the distributor and it has made a difference but any ideas on how to make it spot on?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 14 December 2009, 20:20
oh and the temperature needle is still all over the place after changing the thermostat and coolant temp sensor. when driving it drops to zero,when i am stationary,it goes to 90degrees,what else could it be

thanks
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Ben Lessani on 15 December 2009, 01:57
Take it to a professional - this thread is madness.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 15 December 2009, 09:04
Take it to a professional - this thread is madness.

As above, Ben is talking sense.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 15 December 2009, 10:57
Ditto!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 15 December 2009, 15:48
gor131-x

Have you got a Passat as well?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 17 December 2009, 00:21
yep thats me,bought this for my brother and he's cursing me now lol

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 17 December 2009, 00:22
right,got it vag commed and its the lambda sensor thats playing up,ordered a ne wone,should get it tomorrow,once fitted,ill check the fuel economy and also whether the juddering and hesitation under throttle has sorted itself out,im just worried the lean mixture might have damaged the cat!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 17 December 2009, 09:15
I just wondered as you seem to be a competant mechanic with stuff you have done on your Passat!


Lean mixture shouldnt do any damage to the CAT.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 17 December 2009, 12:44
i know,it doesnt even sound like me when im doing stuff to this golf! everything that ive learnt is from you guys on forums,i get earache off mum and dad for sitting on computer for hours on end reading stuff which looks like gibberish to them!

thanks for your patience on this thread,much appreciated,just waiting fo rthe lambda to be delivered,pulled out the old one and it was completely black and sooted up so hopefully this should sort things out
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Len on 17 December 2009, 16:47
Black and sooted up eh? hmmmm you sure its not been burning a lot of oil? And running rich?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: oneblueleg on 17 December 2009, 17:04
How can a lean mixture send a fuel smell into the car?

I have this smell in my car when it's warm and I have no leaks and the engine runs like a dream. I'm really interested in the solution to the feul smell if and when you find it, so good luck!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 17 December 2009, 17:10
How can a lean mixture send a fuel smell into the car?

I have this smell in my car when it's warm and I have no leaks and the engine runs like a dream. I'm really interested in the solution to the feul smell if and when you find it, so good luck!

Check the crankcase breather hoses.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: oneblueleg on 17 December 2009, 17:14
How can a lean mixture send a fuel smell into the car?

I have this smell in my car when it's warm and I have no leaks and the engine runs like a dream. I'm really interested in the solution to the feul smell if and when you find it, so good luck!

Check the crankcase breather hoses.

OK stupid quetion time, where are they? AGG 2.0 8v
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 17 December 2009, 17:18
front of the block to plastic tube to box on top of cam cover
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: oneblueleg on 17 December 2009, 17:23
front of the block to plastic tube to box on top of cam cover

Thank you, that's only one though isn't it? AudiA8 says hoses plural??
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 17 December 2009, 17:53
well it continues from the box to the inlet tube, so sorta plural, but thats all  :smiley:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 17 December 2009, 18:57
right ive changed the lambda and topped up £25,ive got 54 miles and im just hitting reserve now,the temperature needle hasnt budged from zero even though theres warm air from the heaters,the car is drinking a bit of water but there doesnt seem to be any signs of head gasket or anything to suggest somethings wrong on this new engine

gonna keep a petrol can in the car and drive till it runs out of fuel,just to confirm the cluster isn't reading faulty,will let u know about the progress,but the lambda has made a big change,especially the smell,its still there but its not over bearing.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: oneblueleg on 18 December 2009, 08:46
well it continues from the box to the inlet tube, so sorta plural, but thats all  :smiley:

Cheers  :wink:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 18 December 2009, 09:54
right ive changed the lambda and topped up £25,ive got 54 miles and im just hitting reserve now,the temperature needle hasnt budged from zero even though theres warm air from the heaters,the car is drinking a bit of water but there doesnt seem to be any signs of head gasket or anything to suggest somethings wrong on this new engine

gonna keep a petrol can in the car and drive till it runs out of fuel,just to confirm the cluster isn't reading faulty,will let u know about the progress,but the lambda has made a big change,especially the smell,its still there but its not over bearing.

These 2 things suggest to me that your replacment engine has problems.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 18 December 2009, 15:04
the engine had 73k when it was pulled out of the scrap car,the rest of it is fine,sounds sweet,its still missing but i think thats the ignitiion timing as i was tinkering with that.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 18 December 2009, 15:05
done 70 miles and still on reserve and its minus 2 in oldham today
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 18 December 2009, 15:11
the engine had 73k when it was pulled out of the scrap car,the rest of it is fine,sounds sweet,its still missing but i think thats the ignitiion timing as i was tinkering with that.
you cant tinker with the ignition timing, its either right or not, the ecu does all of the fine tuning, the dizi just needs to be in the right area to work.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 18 December 2009, 15:12
what do you mean by right area? and would i know its in the right area?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 18 December 2009, 15:38
line the engine up to tdc + the rotor arm should line up with a notch in the casting on the dizi, as long as its in the right area itll work fine as the ecu does the timing so you can adjust it at all
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 18 December 2009, 15:40
right,ive had a w ork with another reputable mechanic,he recommened sme changing the plug leads and spark plugs as that could be causing a misfire or juddering,ive still got the original leads which are brand new and ill buy a setof spark plugs from halfords,
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 18 December 2009, 15:44
line the engine up to tdc + the rotor arm should line up with a notch in the casting on the dizi, as long as its in the right area itll work fine as the ecu does the timing so you can adjust it at all

thanks for that! will have a go at that later as im wrapped up in my duvet lol
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 18 December 2009, 16:01
Your saying it is drinking water, I would get that checked out 1st.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 18 December 2009, 16:08
its ok at the moment,i think it needed topping up,ill check it again tomorrow
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 18 December 2009, 16:37
its ok at the moment,i think it needed topping up,ill check it again tomorrow

Is the temp gauge working as it should now as well.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 18 December 2009, 18:48
nope,still the same,ive changed teh coolant temp sensor,thermostat,i havent changed the temp sender which is in the radiator,does that have anything to do withthe temp needle?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 19 December 2009, 00:07
Sounds more like an air lock to me.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 19 December 2009, 00:08
the top and bottom radiator hoses are both soft,is there anywhere else that i check for an airlock too?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 19 December 2009, 21:38
right,£25 quid got me 102 miles and this was until the car literally ran out of petrol,i had a petrol can in the car with a couple of litres to get me to petrol pump.

i took the leads of the spare distributor i had and put them on the distributor on the car,it wouldnt even start so i put the original one back on,going to put the whole distributor on tomorrow,wouldve odne it today but weathers awful.

ive bought some new seats for my passat,didnt get round to fitting them,again,cos of the weather,once i do that,will go to halfords and get some spark plugs,see if that makes a difference

oh and its not drinking water,it just wasnt topped up to proper level at the garage.

apart from plugs and distributor,any other ideas as to the heavy fuel consumption?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Gloves88 on 20 December 2009, 01:16
Using that much fuel I would say can only really be one of two things: you've got a leak somewhere or you're running super rich.

Check your new plugs, if they're black already then its because its running very rich but really it sounds like you might have a leak somewhere.

Have you checked for leaks? I would start at the back of the car with the pump as mentioned previously, then work your way forward carefully checking all lines and connections.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: justalex81 on 20 December 2009, 15:24
if he was running rich the lambda sensor would pick it up. i'd say leak somewhere
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 22 December 2009, 10:51
ive changed the spark plugs and wow were they black and sooted up.put the new ones in,started car,it gave ome black smoke and then went fine. i have worked out my average mpg to be 17mpg everytime ive topped up over the last 2 weeks.
the car is running better,still juddering a bit but much better than before.the temperature needle still at zero,only time itgoe sup is when im parked up for about 10 minutes,as soon as i start driving it will drop to zero,ive changed the thermostat and temp sensor,any ideas?

as for the strong fuel smell,ive been reading up on tinternet and as ive eliminated most of the common causes,the next step is to look at the fuel pump,it isnt a software problem as the diagnostic came up clear apart from the lambda which i replaced.
the fuel pump has an o ring which tends to go, causing fuel to escape to the outside of the tank,also been reading up about a fuel hose going to the fuel rail which can get corroded(do i have a fuel rail?) didnt understand that if anyone could elaborate

i think the fuel system is leaking but just got to figure out where from,any ideas as to how to check apart from with a lighter  :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Deano2711 on 22 December 2009, 11:57
When you say you are getting 17mpg on average is that on a run??  Mine gives me about 16/17mpg daily but by the time its warmed up I am at work. On a run I get it up to 34ish. I try to give it a run regularly to blow away the cobwebs!!!!!      Cheers      Deano
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 22 December 2009, 12:01
Mines a 1.4 :shocked: and im getting 17mpg.and thats an average form the fuel tank being completely empty(running out of petrol empty lol)
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 22 December 2009, 13:36
If your really only getting 17mpg then you must have a major leak or problem.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 22 December 2009, 15:36
I can't believe this thread is still going  :tongue:
Seriously though, if you can smell fuel then check the car from back to front, there must be a leak somewhere if you are getting MPG like that.
If you can't find anything, then get a garage to have a look.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 22 December 2009, 16:05
I got made redundant and am eating into my savings,apart from the engine swap,the erst of the work has been done by myself,i dont mind getting my hands dirty,i actually enjoy it.

anyone got ideas as to how to check for a fuel leak,its not dripping from anywhere that i can see. Are there any tools or ways of checking for a fuel leak?can't seem to find a how to anywhere on google

and thanks for being patient with me guys,ive saved a lot of money through your input and have learnt a lot of things that i otherwise would've never known.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Deano2711 on 22 December 2009, 18:42
Best way to check for a leak is to put some clean cardboard under the car then leave the engine running for a while to let it warm up then check the cardboard for wet spots. This would check the fuel lines that run under the car and is free!!!! If it's from the engine bay then get the engine cleaned first at one of the hand car washes that are popping up everywhere then again leave engine running and just visually check everywhere for wet spots and signs of leak. If it's top end you will see and if it's bottom end it will appear on the cardboard.     Cheers     Deano
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 22 December 2009, 19:04
The easiest way to find a leak is to just follow your nose, it really is that simple.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 22 December 2009, 22:05
The easiest way to find a leak is to just follow your nose, it really is that simple.

As above, should be easy to find.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 23 December 2009, 13:25
http://www.gtishrine.com/fuel.php
have you checked fuel filter isnt clogged?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 23 December 2009, 16:43
right,ive checked the fuel pump from the inside of the boot and theres no leaks there,

i popped the bonnet open and i could smell the raw fuel.

the smell of neat petrol is coming from the breather hose connected to the airbox coming from the crackcase.

it is a raw fuel smell and its definitely from there,

how do i solve this and is this the cause for the fuel smell inside the car aswell?

the temperature is still a problem,when parked up,goes to 90degress,start driving and its back to zero,thoughts and input on this?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 23 December 2009, 16:47
have you checked compression yet?, the only reason for fuel smeel coming from that breather that i can think of is if the piston rings are worn+ letting fuel past into the crankcase+ thus the vapour escaping out of the breather? + have you checked the fuel rail+ pressure regulator on the end is working properly?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 23 December 2009, 18:39
i phoned up swinton gsf branch an dtold them about this problem,and he's suggested its the throttle body.my old engine,the 2nd worn engine and the engine that ive got in now,the only thing that ive transferred over from the old engine is the throttle body,could this be worn.

a compression test would require me to go to a garage and the only decent garage round here are closed and will open up after the new year

not to sound like a numpty but wheres the fuel rail and pressure regulator?

the engine i have in now had 73k miles on it and was running sweet in the car that it came out of,could the throttle body be telling the injectors to dump in too much fuel and the raw fuel is going past the piston rings and into the bottom of the engine?and if the piston rings are allowing fuel to get past,does that definitely mean the rings are worn?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 23 December 2009, 20:51
> ive transferred over from the old engine is the throttle body,could this be worn.
not sure how they get "worn".  Its effectivly a funny shapped pipe with the throttle butterfly in it.

>a compression test would require me to go to a garage and the only decent garage round here are closed and will open up after the new year
yes.

>not to sound like a numpty but wheres the fuel rail and pressure regulator?
Is yours multi-point-injection?  aka multiple injectors?  Follow the fuel pipe in from the offside of the car under the bonet to the injectors, its there - litterly a pipe. The pressure reg is at the end usually held in by a pull-out clip

>could the throttle body be telling the injectors to dump in too much fuel
No - Fueling is controlled by the ECU, which works it out by the throttle position, RPM, air intake, Lambda etc.

> and the raw fuel is going past the piston rings and into the bottom of the engine?
If so then you've not got ignition somewhere.  It'd be blown out of the exhaust in preference to going past the rings I'd expect.  Your oil would also be screwed - aka 1/2 oil and 1/2 fuel!  Nice!

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 23 December 2009, 20:52
(silly forum software wouldn't allow a longer post - box kept scrolling up!)

>and if the piston rings are allowing fuel to get past,does that definitely mean the rings are worn?
it would be dire.  A compression test would show.

James
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 23 December 2009, 21:43
wow thanks for that detailed reply,now that i know where the fuel rail and fpr are,how do i check if they're working as they should?

ill wait until new year before i buy anything else for it and book it in for a full diagnostic,ive had a word with the mechanic and he said he'll charge £50 for finding the fault,i think thats a fantastic price

i wonder if the ECU is still running some faults from the previous engine causing the air/fuel ratio to run lean on the new engine?(or am i talking sh**)

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: VR6-Joe on 23 December 2009, 22:15
On the 1.4 AEX engine all the switches and sensors are built into the plastic casing on the side of the throttle body

When my throttle body was knackered, the water header tank was throwing out water.. which indicated to me that something was wrong with the car. I changed the throttle body for a second hand one and it stopped throwing out water!

Maybe try and source a second hand throttle body and try it?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 23 December 2009, 22:27
i phoned the scrapyard i bought the engine off,he thinks he still has it,he'll let it go with the manifold and the throttle body for £50 which is reasonable,i'm going tomorrow to pick it up,ill change the throttle body at the scrapyard,i should find out straight away if it has made a difference because the breather hose shouldn't smell of raw unburn fuel
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 17:10
ive changed the throttle body and it feels much better to drive,put int £10 worth of fuel and then loss of power,car switches off.

opened bonnet and the platic fuel pipe that comes from under the car had come off from where it joined the rubber hose,its got no clip on it! theres another ipe next to it which goes into the carbon canister and thats not got a clip either,and the  pipe that connects to the throttle body for the fuel,guess what,it hasnt got a clip.

am i right in saying these pipes are pressurised? and not having clips on it will cause fuel to leak from there? even though theres no visual signs when car is started and revving.

feel like killing the mechanic who put the new engine in!

also the coolant expansion tank,i bought a new one from gsf and a new blue cap aswell,its not allowing the system to vent which causes the radiator hoses to airlock and the temperature needle to drop to zero.both parts are brand new,my passats blue cap clicks when it reaches the full closure point,this doesn't,and if i do it too hard,i cant open it,i have to use a wrench!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 24 December 2009, 19:30
>am i right in saying these pipes are pressurised? and not having clips on it will cause fuel to leak from there? even though theres no visual signs when car is started and revving.
yes you are right - but surely you checked the fuel supply lines.....?

>,its not allowing the system to vent which causes the radiator hoses to airlock and the temperature needle to drop to zero
its a sealed system (hot water under pressure doesn't boil...) - its not supposed to vent...!

Can I make a suggestion?  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hilliers-Fundamentals-Motor-Vehicle-Technology/dp/0748780823/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261683209&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hilliers-Fundamentals-Motor-Vehicle-Technology/dp/0748780823/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261683209&sr=8-1)
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 20:41
 :embarassed: sorry and thanks for the book,i think i'm going to order that!

ok,if it doesn't need venting,then why do the radiator hoses go rock hard and once i open the blue cap,they go back to normal?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 24 December 2009, 20:44
sorry to say but either you have the mother of all airlocks, or its typical head-gasket failure.  You need a compression test to be sure, but if you start the car with the coolant cap off - does the water in the tank bubble?

Have you followed the coolant system bleeding post in the maint section?

James
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 20:45
ive done the bleeding system,and no it doesn't bubble

3rd engine in 2months and back to sqaure one if its a head gasket problem!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 20:46
does the main block get airlocked by any chance? i don't know if i read this right but someone had this problem and he left his oil cap off and drove for about 5 miles and that sorted his problem out?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 24 December 2009, 20:47
no - i've done the 1.8 block a few times - no airlocks what-so-ever, not even to the heater matrix.  Not done the 2L but sure its similar.

J
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 20:51
the coolant is nice and pink,no water loss,put another throttle body on today,temperature needle drops to zero when driving and up to 90degrees when stationary,the heaters are ho,no matter what the needle says.

oh and the crank still reaks of raw fuel,so i guess it wasn't the throttle body afterall

it idles at 800rpm,not erratic whatsoever,its even stopped juddering,i think that was the spark plugs

raw fuel smell from crankcase breather hose
AND
temperature needle goes to zero when driving
AND
radiator hoses get airlocked

only 3 problesm left
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 24 December 2009, 21:25
If you getting fuel smell from the breather that would suggest that fuel is leaking into the engine or it is running mega lean rich sorry
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 21:27
where is it leaking from?

and how do i stop it running mega lean?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 24 December 2009, 21:31
where is it leaking from?

and how do i stop it running mega lean?

Sorry it will or could be running rich.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 21:32
why would it be running rich?

considering ive changed the throttle body,lambda sensor,coolant temp sensor and thermostat
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 24 December 2009, 21:34
why would it be running rich?

considering ive changed the throttle body,lambda sensor,coolant temp sensor and thermostat

Not sure to be honest but to have a smell of fuel out of the breather is not good.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 21:36
suggesting piston rings are worn if fuel smell is coming from crank breather hose

Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 24 December 2009, 21:40
suggesting piston rings are worn if fuel smell is coming from crank breather hose



Have you done or had done a compression test.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 24 December 2009, 21:41
not yet,i phoned up yesterday and had it booked for the 3rd of jan

wouldn't i have more problems than just fuel if the head was on its way out?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 24 December 2009, 23:06

> and the raw fuel is going past the piston rings and into the bottom of the engine?
If so then you've not got ignition somewhere.  It'd be blown out of the exhaust in preference to going past the rings I'd expect.  Your oil would also be screwed - aka 1/2 oil and 1/2 fuel!  Nice!


sorry man but when the fuel mixture is in the cylinder it is then compressed on the compression stroke when the valves are shut, if the rings are worn then it wont compres properly+ let some of the mixture past the pistons into the crank case, but ure right the oil will be watwred right down  :wink:
plus just borrow a compression tester off of someone nearby, save some money?
have you changed the ecu any of these engine swaps as it may just be a buggered ecu?
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 25 December 2009, 00:18
if the ecu was buggered,wouldnt that come up in a diagnostic? only thing that came up was the lambda

oil looks fine too,not watered down or anything
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: axewielder on 25 December 2009, 00:49
no ecu doesnt have fault codes for im f**ked up, its a possibility
does the oil smell like petrol? + if not then the fuel smell wont be from the crankcase breather+ will poss be from fuel rail or somewhere nearby
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 25 December 2009, 00:57
you can smell it coming out of the hose,the smoke is actually visible due to the cold weather,its definitely from the breather hose,im going to pull off the manifold after xmas because i havent got another gasket and don't want to put the manifold back on without one
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: javalin on 25 December 2009, 09:53
you've kinda answered your own question...

"why would it be running rich?"

>temperature needle goes to zero when driving
Coolant Temperature sensor, or wiring, sounds very suspect.  Will also cause rich running!

>if the ecu was buggered,wouldnt that come up in a diagnostic?
extremely unlikely that the ECU is buggered

Happy christmas all,

James
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 25 December 2009, 16:19
would the car run lean or leak fuel OR smell fuel from the breather hose if the hose coming off the fuel pressure regulator wasn't connected?

or would it even start?

just took the manifold off and im pretty sure that wasnt connected,but just want to confirm as i may have pulled it off
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 25 December 2009, 16:56
i just smelt the oil from the oil filler cap and it smells more like the fuel tank

guess im looking at bad news then
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 25 December 2009, 21:22
i just smelt the oil from the oil filler cap and it smells more like the fuel tank

guess im looking at bad news then

If petrol is in the oil then yes.
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 26 December 2009, 00:12
im getting a compression test done tomorrow,will let you know what the outcome is to that
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: gor131-x on 26 December 2009, 19:54
right,ive had a compression test done (thanks to bob property off gticlub forum) and the results came back as 150 per cylinder which means the engine is fine

BUT I THINK IVE SOLVED THE PROBLEM!

yeterday,i pulled the manifold off and this morning decided to fit the new one i bought from scrapyard(same manifold from the engine that is in the car now),i took the fuel rail off the old manifold and it wouldnt fit on this new one,so i went back to the garage and looked at my 1st engine,i pulled the fuel rail off that and put that on and it worked.

what the garage guys had done was before this engine,i got given a knackered engine by another scrapyard who claimed it was 1.4 but was actually a 1.6aee,he had put that manifold and injectors on to this engine,the manifolds are totally different,theres no niple fo the fpr vacuum hose to go into,anyway,i put the right manifold and fuel rail on and took it for a 30mile round trip on the motorway,the fuel needle ever so slightly dropped (compared to 1 whole bar dropping after 15 miles!)

also the temperature goes to around 70 degrees when driving rather than dropping to zero and the hoses dont get airlocked anymore?

im going to drive it for a week and see if the mpg has improved

i changed the oil and filter as the old oil stank of fuel

THANKS GUY FOR HANGING IN THERE WITH ME AND HELPING UT,COULD NEVER HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT YOU!

SILLY ERROR BY THE GARAGE MECHANIC CAUSE OF ALL PROBLEMS!
Title: Re: Strong Fuel smell inside....urgent help needed!!!
Post by: Wayne on 26 December 2009, 20:28
Great result if you have got it sorted.