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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: fishnchipsx2 on 06 November 2009, 20:46
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So failed the MOT fairly miserably today, with just over a sheet of failures! :rolleyes:
All my rear brake lines are corroded, so I thought I'd have a go at doing them myself, as I always like to learn a new skill! Got myself a (cheap :rolleyes: ) flaring tool, pipe cutter, some copper brakeline, a bunch of unions, and some fluid.
However, working with hard-lines is all new to me, so I have a few questions...
Do you think it would be a better idea to:
A. cut out just the corroded sections of line, and splice in new parts?
...or...
B. Go the whole hog and replace all the rear lines? (8v gti, so I have a bias valve...)
I understand that VW uses bubble flares. If I take option A, should I use bubble or double flares? And do bubble flares use different unions to double flares?
Any other helpful tips?
Thanks in advance for any help...
Calum. :smiley:
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replace the complete rear section while your at it. I got carried away and replaced the brake spash guards, fitted mk4 calipers. I should have dropped the complete rear axel and changed the axel bushes while I was working in that section. Probably worth checking while your there.
I think I mushroom flared mine (been a while). fitted the hard line. Then removed it and checked to see if the flared hole was still open and not crushed closed.
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Got myself a (cheap :rolleyes: ) flaring tool
Tut tut - buy cheap, buy twice!
The rear sections are a doddle to replace - the only pig is access and corroded lines.
You've got a few pieces,
flexi: calliper > beam
hardline: beam > beam
flexi: beam > floorpan
hardline: floorpan > bias
hardline: bias > master cylinder
I insist on buying on of these (http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/sy/sykes-pickavant-brake-pipe-spanner-11mm-x-13mm.jpg), it will make your life MUCH easier.
You may as well replace all the lines up until the bias, then you can just chop the pipe and put a socket over the union - dead easy then.
For the unions I was using, (single) bubble flair was what was needed (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads12/double+vs+bubble+flare1201238131.jpg).
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Cheers Blue... I'm short on cash to say the least until December, so there won't be any new calipers or bushes going in just yet! Also my parking permit conditions state 'no major repairs to be undertaken on site :huh:" ... so dropping the beam might be pushing it a bit far - at least with the beam on, I can drop the car onto the wheels if anyone jobsworth comes sniffing around! :grin:
Good stuff, cheers for that Ben:
All the flexis are braided hoses, so I'll be keeping them, apart from one caliper hose, which is apparently leaking - although it may just be a case of tightening up. If not, is it possible to buy them singly?
However according to the friendly MOT man, all 4 of the hard-lines up to the compensator are corroded, so I'll be doing all of them...
Already got a flare-nut spanner, gotta agree that they put 'normal' spanners to shame! :smiley:
then you can just chop the pipe and put a socket over the union
^^Are you suggesting this purely for ease of access, or is there another reason? :huh: Sounds good to me though...
Will get my longboard out and head down to the shop later on to see if I can swap my 'normal' (double-flared, I'm guessing?) unions for single bubble-flare ones...
Thanks for all the advice!
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^^Are you suggesting this purely for ease of access, or is there another reason? :huh: Sounds good to me though...
Yeah, it just makes it all a bit easier - it can be a fiddle with a non-ratchet spanner as there isn't much room to turn it, so its spanner on/spanner off ... spanner on/spanner off.
But if you just chop the pipe - you can just put a socket over it or ratchet spanner, considering you are replacing all the lines to the bias anyway, cutting them as close to the union will make it easier - plus you can gauge the pipe lengths and bends better with the big portion off the car ;)
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Replace the whole lot......Joins = leaks
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I would just do the lot, the rest will corrode at some point so may as well just do it in one go now and save time and hassle further down the line
Also if you splice in sections then you increase the chances of leaks so imo its a no brainer really
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Will be doing all 4 at the rear then. I have male unions, which I'm told will fit any single flare - including bubbles. Will get out there now to get started.
A question for later... when I bleed the brakes, I'll probably use the 2-person method, as it's worked well for me before. Problem is, I no longer have the random bit of tubing I used last time to stick over the nipple and route into a jar of fluid. Has anyone got any suggestions for what to use as tubing? :huh: Washer hoses are just a little bit to small...
Having a problem getting the flare-nut spanner to fit over the n/s beam-flexi to caliper-hardline joint. What seems to be a part of the bias valve linkage connecting to the beam is in the way... would disconnecting this help? Cutting the pipe wont help as I can't envisage fitting a socket in there anyway, and although a normal 11mm spanner will just fit, I don't want to go down the route of rounded-off unions!
^^Please let me know if you didn't understand that, and I'll re-word/draw a diagram/take pics :grin:
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if its the one that is blocked by the arm for the bias that comes off the beam, i just removed it to get better access
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Safe, I'll remove it when I get on the case tomoro then, cheers! :smiley: (You do mean the part attached by 2x14mm (or mebbe 13mm, I canny remember) bolts+nuts, right?) :laugh:
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No idea off the top of my head.
When I'm working on the car, I just remove anything that is in my way ;)
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i just done all mine mate, just take your time and make sure you put the nuts on before flaring the pipe.
i did the about 3 times cause i was rushing, make sure the flares are right or you will have to do it again cause it WILL leak.
invest in at least 1 11mm brake pipe spanner cause you will only have a whole load of heartache with normal spanners or a socket.
watch out for the little springs which join the hoses and the steel pipes, they break easily and as far as i know then its a trip to the scrappers, although you may be able to get them from the dealers.
i rinsed mine out when they were done with brake cleaner, and gave em a quick coat of hammerite smooth to make em last.
im only an amateur at cars and it int hard just take your time and good luck.
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Small query...
The flares my tool are making a slightly different to the flares on my old lines.
It is a double-flaring tool, but I am only doing the first half of the flaring process, so it produces a bubble-like flare.
However, the flare isn't quite the shame shape. Whereas the original VW ones have a conical tip, my ones have a flatter tip.
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/STA70574.jpg)
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/STA70573.jpg)
I quickly made up a double-flare to check, and it seems to sit inside nicely. However, there's less contact surface area, so I just want to double-check on here: will it still still give a satisfactory seal???
Here's a diagram of how they sit:
(http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n471/fishnchipsx2/linesbare.jpg)
Cheers... :smiley:
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The male flange you made should be fine, it is better to double flare it, to stop it cracking.
The shape will change when its compressed into the female flange.
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Nice one, I was thinking it'll shape itself into the female flange when done-up.
But surely double-flaring it will turn it into a female flange, such that it won't fit into my braided lines/compensator? Or are you just speaking generally? :huh:
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All the guides i have read suggest to do it that way. It won't turn into a female flange, it will just make the male flange stronger.
The best way to do it is to just make loads up, practice is everything.
As you said the male flange will shape itself when compressed into the female flange.
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Ok... I will pop off a flexi when I get the chance, I guess that's the best way to check if a double flare will fit... unless Ben can share some 1st-hand experience? :smug:
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I just (single) bubble flared mine - that's the VW way :)
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Cheers Ben (yet again), that's what I've gathered from reading.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5rW-ppyB_ugC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA90&dq=bubble+vs+double+flaring&source=bl&ots=fbpBkjpEup&sig=Eqrz5HmzyBKAPJq3vox5f04NkRE&hl=en&ei=CTP7SqrpOcqe4QbF--2MAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBTge#v=onepage&q=&f=false (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5rW-ppyB_ugC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA90&dq=bubble+vs+double+flaring&source=bl&ots=fbpBkjpEup&sig=Eqrz5HmzyBKAPJq3vox5f04NkRE&hl=en&ei=CTP7SqrpOcqe4QbF--2MAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBQQ6AEwBTge#v=onepage&q=&f=false).
Figure 4-15 shows it pretty well.
I would think that cracked flares are more associated with steel lines than copper anyway...
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All finished - took a while at first, but by the end, the process of taking off old line, making up new one and putting it on took no time at all. :smiley:
Bled out the rears, adjusted the bias valve (stretched spring) whilst I was at it, and got the o/s handbrake working with a little penetrating oil.
Took it for a little test drive round the car park, and was very pleased to find that it stops!
Thanks for the help everyone, big thumbs-up. :kiss:
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I did mine the same as your picture. I then compressed the flange.
Removed it and double checked to see if the flange had compressed shut. A few did and I just used a small drill bit to open it up.
Not sure if thats the right way but it worked and didnt leak
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Well we no who to take our brake pipes to now then ! nice job , home brake pipes yummy !!!:) i done all mine it was great fun stuff,
Joe
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Removed it and double checked to see if the flange had compressed shut. A few did and I just used a small drill bit to open it up.
Didn't think of doing this... but no problems with bleeding the brakes, so I guess that means none of em were completely compressed shut.
Sorted out a fuel leak, got the emissions down (from 8%! :laugh: ), and took out the rear seats, then drove to the MOT station for sill-welding, a new exhaust hangar, and a retest.
Got my green sheet, so I'm happy :smiley: . Was intrigued to see that the station had failed the lack of rear exhaust hangar (I just had a jubilee clip). I thought they were going to weld a new one on for me, but they just put a couple of cable ties on!! :grin: