GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => Shows, events, track days, motorsport => Topic started by: euro dave on 03 October 2009, 22:10
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Joe and I took the MK2 to Abingdon at the end of September for the first proper track session. Problem was that after 3 heavy laps the oil temp went above 115 and we experienced a loss of pressure - to the point that the oil pressure light came on and our gauge was showing around 5-10psi. We let the car cool for half an hour and the pressure came back (around 80 psi).
First thing to do is change the oil to a decent semi-synthetic, but is this enough? We found that above 110 degrees the oil pressure started to drop off. We did the entire day in 3 or 4 lap stints, changing up at around 5k rpm. Not as exciting as it should have been but the corners were a blast!
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At abingdon we usualy get 116 degrees plus oil temp after 6 laps plus. Car is a Mk3 ABF though. What oil are you running?
Might be worth running an oil cooler, from what I've researced you will need at least a 19 row cooler not the bog standard 13 row cooler.
With a 19 row cooler from what researched you shouldn't get above 110 degrees.
Trouble is you don't want to install an oil cooler to mask another underlying problem.
Might be worth installing a new oil temp and pressure sensor and a good aftermarket one of both to confirm the readings for peace of mind.
How did you find Abingdon - the chicanes are good fun.
Paul
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Something sounds a bit amiss as I've run my 8v up to 120 on the oil temp and not suffered any significant pressure drop. I would replace your oil pump as it sounds like it's performance is dropping off as the oil thins more than it should do.
nick
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8v or 16v?
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It's an 8V IIRC, on Digifant.
Been wrong before, mind.
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If the symptoms you describe were happening to my 8v I'd be looking at a new oil pump. It's also worth thinking about running a windage tray/baffled sump setup whilst the sump is dropped.
110 degrees isn't an excessive temperature, however i would consider running an oil cooler as Paul suggested.
I've abandoned the VW water/oil setup and just use a 13-row Mocal setup, with the cooler positioned where the driving lamp should be on the driver's side. At a hot Silverstone this year my car finished the race with an oil temp of 112.
Which oil are you using? I've yet to find a better replacement for good old Synta Silver.
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pike, slightly off topic but what oil cooler housing are you using to delete the water cooler?
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I've joined the redundant water pipes and used a Mocal sandwich plate without an oil stat.
There used to be a chap on ebay selling the kits for around £100 with the mounting hardware, plate and cooler. IIRC you had the choice of braided or rubber lines too.
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yeah i have all those bits, i trial fitted the oil filter and sandwich plate without the water cooler and the oil filter bottomed out on the thread before it touched the sandwich plate. was just wondering how you got around this?
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Can you not just chop a bit of the filter thread?
Nick
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I didn't encounter that problem. All mated up fine.
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Can you not just chop a bit of the filter thread?
Nick
id rather not, definately not on the oil filter end!
maybe the threaded hollow bit can screw up into the housing more on mine. ill have a fiddle
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I think Horney's suggestion is fine - the thread needs to be cut down to the right level, or you'll not be able to fit the filter!
I've got a Golf1 oil cooler kit on the shelf and a sandwich plate kit, but I thought I would try running the crossflow 8V with only the OEM set up to see how I got on. As it happens I haven't experienced any issues with oil temp (it's because I drive so slowly and tend to avoid high revs), so I haven't fitted anything more than the heat exchanger.
I *have* test fitted the sandwich plate and it was fine. It fitted on with a threaded sleeve over the OEM hollow stud. If I was fitting one with no thermostat I would keep the heat-exchanger as it helps warm the oil faster - oil that's too cold will do as much damage as too hot.
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It's an 8v, we will keep an eye on the pressure then once the oil and filter has been changed. Is the oil pump a massive job and can you tell signs of wear with the sump off?
Someone mentioned a diesel variant having a baffled sump but never seen evidence of this? Anyone know?
Cheers
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The diesels had a windage tray not a baffled sump, well worth slapping in if you can get one. Not sure if they're still available from VW.
As for the oil pump it's pretty easy to change, not sure on checking wear but they're not that expensive so may be a good idea to swap it out and see how you get on.
nick
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Diesel windage trays are still available from GSF.
Paul
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Do you know off hand how much they are Paul? I'm going to change my sump gasket over the winter and while it's off I might as well chuck one of these in.
nick
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Removing/replacing the oil pump is not a particularly taxing job.
Before you start its a good idea to make sure you know what you need to torque the pump up to. If the pump is torqued up wrong it will affect the operation of the pump? Un-helpfully I cannot remember what the pump has to be torqued up to but I'm sure someone can dig that information out for you.
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Do you know off hand how much they are Paul? I'm going to change my sump gasket over the winter and while it's off I might as well chuck one of these in.
nick
About £30 plus vat I seem to remember. I think they call them sump restrictors on the GSF site.
Paul
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Do you know off hand how much they are Paul? I'm going to change my sump gasket over the winter and while it's off I might as well chuck one of these in.
nick
About £30 plus vat I seem to remember. I think they call them sump restrictors on the GSF site.
Paul
That's great, thanks very much.
Nick
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OK, cheers guys
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Here's a link I found that might be of use to other people searching for the same topic:
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53047
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Priming the pump like that is a pointless thing to do. The oil will drain straight out of the bottom of the pump, but you'll think it's primed because the internetz said it was.
Instead, get the pump bolted up, replace the sump and fill it, then remove the dizzi and use a drill on the top end of the pump drive to actually prime the pump and the rest of the oil system.
This way you'll actually be able to see the pressure light go off and the system will actually be primed.
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DH good tip. As a matter of interest would pre loading the pump with grease work and then spin it over on the starter for a bit before letting it fire up?
I used to do this when I rebuilt mini engines and it reduced the time of getting the pressure up on new engine hugely. Not sure if this would work witht he Golf design of pump.
nick
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Pumping grease round your engine is a bad idea.
I've used vaseline before to help prime motors, but really the drill on the pump drive is the only sure-fire way of priming up the motor properly and with oil. The low speed turnover on the starter won't always pull the oil up with the vaseline, or grease - that's a big ask.
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Ah yes it was indeed vaseline and not grease, memories not what it used to be. Oil pump on a mini is cam driven so the drill option wasn't available for that.
nick
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You blocking out memories of vaseline there, Nick?
Got anything else you're trying not to remember?
:grin:
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What would you consider as the right order of things to do to solve the issue? Oil, Filter, Cooler, Pump in what order? Would you do just one thing before retrying to see the effects? Obviously we don't want to do things unnecessarily and it could be any number of issues. The history of the oil in the car is unknown so personally I'd just do this and a filter first, but I don't want to get on a track and damage stuff again.
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Hang on, can we just confirm something here:
You bought the car and then just threw it around on track without so much as changing the oil?
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We can only go on what the previous owner said which was that he'd done an oil and filter change. The oil was clean and we had good pressure and temperature on the road so never got around to a filter and oil change before the day. There weren't any plans on ragging the car on the track to within an inch of its life but in hindsight we should have done a full fluid change before the day.
But no, it wasn't just bought and thrown on the track.
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You didn't change the oil before the track day.
That's a pretty dumb thing to do.
Change the oil first, then get it nice and hot and then think about changing anything else after you've checked whether it wasn't just that the guy you bought the car off hadn't put the wrong grade of oil in it, or something similar. :rolleyes:
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when you say loss of oil pressure are you sure it's out of spec
these engines run at 4-5 bar oil pressure when cold or revving 60 - 75 psi it should never be above that. at 80 deg oil temp you should hit 2+ bar by 2000 rpm and oil pressure should rise with revs.
when hot ideling below 1 bar is not abnormal even for a heathy engine.
if driven hard, cheep or incorrect grade oil and or crap filter is capable of bringing the light on esp if the motor has done a few miles
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Cheers guys,
The oil has been done, and it's running at normal pressures, just got to see what it's like on the track now.
Cheers