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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: andd306 on 26 September 2009, 11:55

Title: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 26 September 2009, 11:55
Morning chaps,

I have run into a problem whilst doing a normal job.  :angry:

I'll start from the begininng.......

Yesterday i serviced my car as normal but the spark plug snapped off in the head! i tryed everything to get it out but the bugger was stuck in there!

Any way after many hours trying to get it out with stud extractors ect i decided the best way forward was to remove the head!

Everything went to plan, head off --- removed snapped plug -- all went back together, new gasket ect ect but now the bloody thing wont start!

Checked for sparks + Fuel and all is fine but im not even getting any popping from the exhaust!

is there any way of checking that it is injecting the fuel?

Im at a loss as to what it can be!

Any info on this would be a massive help!

Cheers andrew
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: Christo77 on 26 September 2009, 15:01
Hi.. sorry to hear about that ole chap, that's a hec of a job you tackled there..
I assume your timing belt is back on with everything lined up..and you worked from TDC on number 1 cylinder before the strip down..
All pipes and electrical connections/sensors back in place etc..
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: robz on 26 September 2009, 16:03
not really sure tbh,
is it turning and not running??
poss timing??
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 26 September 2009, 19:44
Engine is all turning fine!

I forgot all about the tdc but i ensured it was all marked up and hasnt slipped! so it has all gone back as it came apart!

Andy
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 26 September 2009, 20:16
So now if you set it to TDC then remove the dizzy cap the rotor arm is pointing to the notch on the side of the dizzy ? Just a quick thing to check make sure its not the timing !!
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 26 September 2009, 20:31
is there a way of setting tdc without taking the rocker cover off?
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 26 September 2009, 20:36
Is  it an 8v or 16v as you don't need to remove the rocker cover to check for TDC on the 8v !!
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 26 September 2009, 22:56
its an 8v
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 27 September 2009, 20:37
timing seems fine but no joy.

any ideas? must be something simple
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 27 September 2009, 21:00
After trying to start it, to check to see if the fuel is being injected I suppose you could take out a spark plug and see if its wet from unburnt fuel.. I take it you are hearing the fuel pump prime as you said you'd checked the fuel..
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 27 September 2009, 22:05
well i took the hose off which goes to the injector rail and it pumps out when cranking! there seems to be a smell of fuel when trying to start it!

Also im 90% sure i can hear the pump priming.

The more i think about it the more i think it must be a fuel or ecu problem, because surely if the engine is timed up correctly and i have a full set of sparking plugs the only thing missing is the fuel?

Is there a injector test i can do or possibly something that can go wrong when disconecting the wires?

Is there a way of resetting the ecu?

Andy
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 27 September 2009, 22:21
The fuel pump priming is quite easy to hear I just checked mine on the way home. When you turn the ignition before starting there will be a hum from the back of the car for a second and half and then stop. To reset the ECU, disconnect the battery for 30+ mins then reconnect.
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 28 September 2009, 18:59
i can hear a priming noise coming from the engine area but not from the rear of the car! But when i remove the petrol pipe going into the injector rail and turn the engine over it poors out of the pipe so it look like there is a supply!  :shocked:
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 28 September 2009, 19:02
And everything is plugged back in ? Sounds like the injectors are not injecting the fuel if your getting a spark !!
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: Wayne on 28 September 2009, 19:11
Earth lead left off and spiked / blown the ecu by any chance.
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 28 September 2009, 20:08
Earth lead left off and spiked / blown the ecu by any chance.

Earth lead?

How can the ecu blow?

Andy
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: Wayne on 28 September 2009, 20:17
Earth lead left off and spiked / blown the ecu by any chance.

Earth lead?

How can the ecu blow?

Andy

Poor earth and then trying to start it can spike the ecu and blow it, seen it happen on mk2's a lot.
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 28 September 2009, 20:25
any way of testing it?
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 28 September 2009, 20:29
Suppose if you could connect and read your ECU with vagcom then the ECU must be working, may also give you a clue as to what the problem is !!

Know anyone with vagcom ??
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 28 September 2009, 20:31
nope afraid not! everything else still works!
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 28 September 2009, 20:35
Where abouts are you ?
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 28 September 2009, 20:37
congleton in cheshire.
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 28 September 2009, 20:53
Ah ok if you were local I could have popped by with vagcom !!
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 28 September 2009, 21:00
Ah ok if you were local I could have popped by with vagcom !!

haha, cheers anyway.

please keep the ideas coming.
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: Christo77 on 28 September 2009, 21:10
A couple of things.. Did you disconnect the battery negative cable before doing the work?  If you did, have any of your tools hit the battery terminals..or even if you didn't did you make contact with any electrical components causing sparks?
Another thing on the off chance..did you remove the distributor? again if you did it's an easy mistake to refit it 180% out..  I know, i did it once!  But i don't think it's a necessary procedure on these 20 litre 8v's for cylinder head removal.
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 28 September 2009, 22:31
A couple of things.. Did you disconnect the battery negative cable before doing the work?  If you did, have any of your tools hit the battery terminals..or even if you didn't did you make contact with any electrical components causing sparks?
Another thing on the off chance..did you remove the distributor? again if you did it's an easy mistake to refit it 180% out..  I know, i did it once!  But i don't think it's a necessary procedure on these 20 litre 8v's for cylinder head removal.


i didnt removed the battery conections doh!!! but the battery was dead!

regarding the disy have you got a picture of how it should be?
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: Christo77 on 28 September 2009, 22:59
Oh well if your bat was dead then no worries there really,
I haven't got any pictures of the disy in correct situ sorry, course i'm talking about the whole disy out of the engine not just the cap off..
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: leegt5 on 28 September 2009, 23:29
A couple of things.. Did you disconnect the battery negative cable before doing the work?  If you did, have any of your tools hit the battery terminals..or even if you didn't did you make contact with any electrical components causing sparks?
Another thing on the off chance..did you remove the distributor? again if you did it's an easy mistake to refit it 180% out..  I know, i did it once!  But i don't think it's a necessary procedure on these 20 litre 8v's for cylinder head removal.


i didnt removed the battery conections doh!!! but the battery was dead!

regarding the disy have you got a picture of how it should be?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/leegt5/golfgti/dizzy2.jpg)
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: axewielder on 29 September 2009, 09:29
to test injectors, remove fuel rail in one piece with fuel hoses still attached, get an old glass jar+ poke an injector size hole in the lid, insert 1 injector into hole, remove wiring plug off injector,turn on ignition to get fuel pressure, put 12v across the injectors terminals(i just ran 2 wires straight from battery), you should see an even fine spray of fuel from the injec5or as long as 12v are applied, might have to trial and error which connections but its pretty straightforward.
Also try a timing light wired in between dizzy+ spark plugs and dizzy+coil to check for spark.
Hope this helps
could well be dodgy earth connection, check all + clean, there is one under the battery tray
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 29 September 2009, 11:31
to test injectors, remove fuel rail in one piece with fuel hoses still attached, get an old glass jar+ poke an injector size hole in the lid, insert 1 injector into hole, remove wiring plug off injector,turn on ignition to get fuel pressure, put 12v across the injectors terminals(i just ran 2 wires straight from battery), you should see an even fine spray of fuel from the injec5or as long as 12v are applied, might have to trial and error which connections but its pretty straightforward.
Also try a timing light wired in between dizzy+ spark plugs and dizzy+coil to check for spark.
Hope this helps
could well be dodgy earth connection, check all + clean, there is one under the battery tray


how do you remove the fuel rail, looks like a tight fit!


i have just tested the feed to the injectors and im only getting 0-2v when cranking! surly it should be alot more than that?

Andy
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: Wayne on 29 September 2009, 12:16
to test injectors, remove fuel rail in one piece with fuel hoses still attached, get an old glass jar+ poke an injector size hole in the lid, insert 1 injector into hole, remove wiring plug off injector,turn on ignition to get fuel pressure, put 12v across the injectors terminals(i just ran 2 wires straight from battery), you should see an even fine spray of fuel from the injec5or as long as 12v are applied, might have to trial and error which connections but its pretty straightforward.
Also try a timing light wired in between dizzy+ spark plugs and dizzy+coil to check for spark.
Hope this helps
could well be dodgy earth connection, check all + clean, there is one under the battery tray


how do you remove the fuel rail, looks like a tight fit!


i have just tested the feed to the injectors and im only getting 0-2v when cranking! surly it should be alot more than that?

Andy

Would guess so, could be ecu related.
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: axewielder on 29 September 2009, 12:50



how do you remove the fuel rail, looks like a tight fit!


i have just tested the feed to the injectors and im only getting 0-2v when cranking! surly it should be alot more than that?

Andy

Might need to take off TB then there are just 2 allen head bolts holding it to inlet mani+ rubber bungs around injectors.
dont know about voltage to injectors dont have info to hand, i belive the resistance across injectors should be under 12 ohms?
+ if low voltage could be to do with bad earth/connection, have you checked all in engine bay?
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: andd306 on 29 September 2009, 20:36



how do you remove the fuel rail, looks like a tight fit!


i have just tested the feed to the injectors and im only getting 0-2v when cranking! surly it should be alot more than that?

Andy

Might need to take off TB then there are just 2 allen head bolts holding it to inlet mani+ rubber bungs around injectors.
dont know about voltage to injectors dont have info to hand, i belive the resistance across injectors should be under 12 ohms?
+ if low voltage could be to do with bad earth/connection, have you checked all in engine bay?



do you know wh all the eath are?
Title: Re: Help with 8v Gti Starting
Post by: axewielder on 29 September 2009, 22:55
theres a strip on the front left of block, under battery tray, top right of head, alternator, starter motor, prob a few more lol