GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk1 => Topic started by: dubdom on 22 September 2009, 13:54
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Hello people,
I'm part way through putting a GT engine into my mk1, and have got a couple of problems. Lots actually...
1. Reverse light sensor?
Only have the actual engine loom in the mk1 not whole front loom. Could i just swap the switch out of the mk1 4 speed into the mk3 5 speed? (That would save me lots of hassle)
2. Fuel pump wiring? Locating the fuel pump at the back beside wheel well (mk3 polo stuff). Have the in car fuel pump wiring but were does it go? Do i take some wires from the back of the relay beside the ecu. (unless you can guess I'm a complete wiring novice)
3. Black temp switch on thermo housing? haven't got the right plug as far as i can see. Where does it go and what should i use?
4. Unknown plug no.1, furthest forwards one on the little mount of 3 beside inlet manifold. Again catn find correct plug, 2 pin plug with yellow and blue wires going to seperat plugs on back of the head? What is?
5. Unknown plug no.2, This plug run along with the plug to the coil pack but splits before it reaches, its a 3 pin plug (brown red black wires) What is?
6. Unknown plug no.3, This one runs along with main loom towards the ecu but again splits, its a 3 pin plug with a big red, little red and a yellow? What is? anything to do with fuel pump??
7. Coolant inlet, outlets?? Thermostat housing, 3 outlets on back, top two are plugged lowest is not, where does it go? Other two are on the metal coolant pipe running along back of block, two outlets coming out towards back on the far right (looking from front). I assume two of these go into my heater matrix, but which ones and what does the other one do???
8. Coil wires, all of the wires to the coil and other mk1 wires, hall sender etc which will not be in use, i assume theres an ignition live which ill be using but what do i do with all the rest?
9. Coil pack, where have other people chosen to mount it, dont really want to cut loom so that restrict things, also what dizzy-coil pack lead could i use which is longer?
10. And finally has someone got a pic of the fabricated gearbox mount? Just want to see one before i start to cut them about? (for adapting 4-5speed, mk1 to mk3??)
Phew......... Right those are all the questions I've got, just wanted to see if anyone can offer any advice?
As you can tell i am by no means a pro, so dont hesitate to put anything in lamens terms........
I really appreciate any help anyone can offer
Cheers,
Dom
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1. could try it, should fit if your MK1 is a 1.0-1.3
2. you'll need to either fit a MK1 fuel pump relay & wiring, or splice the Polo wiring in somewhere. The problem with the polo is it uses a completly different type of fusebox and its sat in the rain tray
3. you'll need to find a suitable plug for this, they're dead common on later VAG models though. chop off and fit it to your red/yel wire, run the other wire to earth somewhere
4-7, pics would help. these all sound liek managment wires that will be part of the polo ecu loom. what you need to do is strip the polo ecu loom down to the bare components, remove anything thats not for the ecu. then strip all the engine bits out of your mk1 loom, and cobine the 2.
8-9. The polo coil has 3 pins, earth (brown), ignition live (black) and the trigger wire from the ecu (usually red/green), no biggy to wire up.
however you'll need to watch out here, otherwise your rev counter wont work. 2 ways for this, either bin the polo coil and fit a later MK2 Golf/Polo electronic ignition loom & coil, and splice to the MK3 polo coil wiring or open the polo coil and add a wire into it for the rev counter.
If you used a MK2 coil you would need the TCI-H unit and wiring between it and the coil. Then splice the wire from pin 6 of the coil into the mk3 polo coil trigger wire. run your mk1 rev counter wire to terminal 1 on the mk2 coil and job done. Advantage here is the coil will fit in the factory spot and use the std ign live and rev counter wires from the MK1 loom.
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awesome cheers dude thats a great help, im gonna get a chance to get onto it today or tomorow, ill grab some pictures and see what i can do and update this.
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right did a fair bit this morning, oil high and low pressure switches, one odd thing was that what i had labelled as yellow pressure switch was a blue wire, and what i labelled as blue pressure switch was yellow. This was a fair amount of time ago when i took it out so i dont really know what i did, oops.
i have still got a couple of problems so i thought id take some pictures and see if anyone can help.
There are two plugs which i dont know what they are, they are the same type of plug. One which goes close to the coilpack and split just before it.
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/mk1004.jpg)
Second one is close to the ecu. (far right)
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/mk1009.jpg)
close up of the plug
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/mk1006.jpg)
Also this red wire and brown wire i assume is power and earth for ecu?
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/mk1011.jpg)
Next was those coolant inlet outlets. you can see all 3, 1 plastic and 2 metal ones, i have got two pipes coming out of mk1 for heater matrix, dont know which ones they go to and what the other thing is?
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/mk1008.jpg)
Other two things were a couple of breathers, first coming out from under inlet mani (as far as i can see) has a red tip on it, cant see any logical place for it to go to.
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/mk1012.jpg)
second is one coming from back of dizzy.
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/mk1013.jpg)
where do these go and what do they do?
The only other thing i have to sort is fuel supply. Lift pumps in, but i need the plug, its a 3 pin plug, i assume one is earth, one for level sensor and one a power for pump? were will i run the power to? cause i assume its gotta have the relay which is up by ecu.
Also just gotta run power to pump and mount the pump aswell.
Cheers for any help once again!
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1-3 I think you would be better off asking on clubpolo, its been too long since ive worked on a polo! i recognise plug #1 & #2, but I cant for the life of me remember where they go. 1 might be for a knock sensor? 2 looks like it could be power, fuel pump and a starter motor? there is a similar plug on a digifant mk2, and red/yel is usually fuel pump power or relay trigger. the fuel pump relay is there in the loom so id say it could be power to the pump(s)
can you list the wire colours on these 2 plugs?
4 - yeah to the battery, which is in that corner of the scuttle on a polo. Need to extend em!
5 - left one on the metal pipe goes to the matrix, as does the spare hose onm the plastic flange. right connection on the metal pipe goes to the header tank :)
6-7 again club polo best place to ask, not worked on a GT before. this pic any help:
(http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/p3gtvac.jpg)
Yeah you have earth, pump live and sensor output on the lift pump, opower will come from the fuel pump relay. im reasonably sure it goes to plug #2 for power. Once you get the ecu powered up, check for power at the red/yellow wire when you hear the fuel pump relay click on then off :)
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Sweet cheers, yeah I've got a post up on clubpolo aswell. So would power for Lift pump and normal pump come from the relay?
Just had a look at wires, no1 is red/yellow red/black and yellow. And the female plug on polo loom goes through the White plug next to the polo fuse box.
No2 is black red/black and brown and the female plug is closer to the front of the loom.
Cheers dude!
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i recon the 1st plug is:
red/yel - power to fuel pump
red/black - starter motor live
yellow - diagnostics
other plug might be starter or fan related perhaps, cant recal. polo forum should be able to help though! i can remember unplugging that when i removed the head from the engine, but not where it actually went!
only a reasonable guess on my part though ideally you want to get the multimeter out and check for continuity to the ecu/relay pins. if it helps i have a polo gt wiring diagram?
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that would be great please mate. cheers for help!
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just got a reply on clubpolo sayin that one of the metal coolant outlets was for the expansion tank, and i asssume the breather in the last pic is for that aswell?
I am trying to do away with the expansion tank as its just messy, ive got my mk1 top fill rad in at the mo, would it cause any problems if i justy blanked them off?
Dom
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yeah 1 of those is for the header, other 2 are for the heater matrix. no problem blocking one of the pipes off, just make sure it wont leak!
pm me your email address and I'll send the diagrams over.
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Right all engine wiring etc done, been slacking lately though as i've just started uni. Last couple of questions about fueling. Should I use all fuel pump assembly inc accumulator and big filter? Or just the fuel pump itself? Also where do I run power to for both fuel pumps? I assume it's gotta go to the relay but where do the wires go there no obvious plug or anything?
Cheers
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use the complete fuel pump setup from the GT, if you still have the carby fuel tank you'll need a lift pump of some kind. I'm not 100% sure if the Polo has one or not, and if it does whether it will fit the MK1 tank? If you have a MK1 GTI tank you can just plumb it all to the outlet on the side.
As for the wiring I recon you have the Polo GT fuel pump relay there, if so follow the wiring from that and find the output, then run it all the way back to the pump(s)
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Sweet yup I've got all polo stuff, lift and normal pump. Lift pump is in went and got plug and all the wiring I could get put of a spi polo (same plug). And I have gotta mount the fuel pump soon, do you reckon use hole assembly Inc accumulator and massive fuel filter off polo? Or just the pump itself
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Yeah I've got the relay it one of the ones that sits next to the ecu, couldn't find an obvious plug or anything, so just try and follow the wiring off the back of the relay, should I be looking for two red lives?
Sorry about immense amount of questions I have to think out loud before I do something.
Cheers for the help you know a hell of alot of dub stuff!
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yeah use everything from under the polo, the filter is obv requirted to stop crap gettin in the engine, and the reservoir is there to prevent fuel starvation on corners :)
if you find the 2 relays you should be able to spot the pump power wire, the one you're looking for is red/yellow :)
dont confuse this with the trigger wire from the ecu, this is also red/yel. But this one will run from the fuel relay to the ecu so you should be able to spot the difference
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right ive been lazy/ill lately so havent made a huge amount of progress. I have put the intank pump in and wired up earth and signal feed, and got the power in the engine bay. I have found the two yellow/red wires, i assume the fatter one is for main fuel pump, also i dont know where to splice em in. One comes out of relay and goes to a inline fuse, think its for the tank pump, im just scared of cutting it and f'in it up. Would you be able to tell me if i got a couple of pics up?
Also the only other thing (this is why its annoying me so much and im soooo nearly there) is the main fuel pump, again dont know how much to use. will normal inline small fuel filters work, as the great f'in huge polo one wont fit anywere unless i stick it righttttt at the back of the back behind spare wheel well, which i dont wanna do. Now i can just get the fuel pump and accumulator in next to the fuel tank. Im looking at some fancy inline injection ones (of a motorsport site) which i may get in the future. Which bring me onto my final question about the accumulator, theres two many pipes coming off it!!! dont know what they all do, whats inlet/outlet or whather its confusing me. again would picture help.
Cheers for help really appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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the red/yel wire with a fuse is for both fuel pumps :)
the other red/yel could be the ecu trigger wire for the relay, need to get pics up i think. as long as the filter you get is designed for injection its all good.
accumulator fittings:
input from lift pump
return to lift pump
feed to main pump
return from engine bay
clicky here, if you cant see the pic signup to the site, its free :)
http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/vw/PO/1992/120/50/1253133/
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Wow awesome cheers dude that link is great. So now ill be able to sort out the acumulator,
Here is the photo of the bit of loom, hope its good enough, i just dont know where to cut it, because if i dont cut the big one aswell then there is only one wire?!?!?!?
(http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll33/djselliott/DSCF1796.jpg)
Oh yeah just remembered one other thing i got to do, the two hoses which are supposed to go to/from the expansion tank, what actually is the purpose of an expansion tank? cause i can either try and find a reducer which has a biiiiiig step down as they are quite largly different, or block em both off some how, but if i do that then i have got to find adequate plugs or something.
cheers!
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the header tank is there for a little extra cooling capacity, and to allow the system to self-bleed. the 3 large hoses are for the heater matrix and the bottom of the header tank, the thin hose to the top of the tank is the one sat on the brake reservoir in one of your piccies. this should help:
http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/vw/PO/1992/120/49/1251795/
the output to the fuel pump is most probably on that 3 pin plug, the thing you have in your hand is the fuel pump fuse. it goes relay -> fuse -> pump :)
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Cool, what do you reckon the 3rd wire is for on the plug?
Yep I get what all the hoses are I just don't want to use an expansion tank so what would I do with them? Block em of join em or isit essential? If so I Gotta buy another rad?
Cheers
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ah ok I see. blocking them off is fine but you still need a filler cap from somewhere. early MK1 1.3 rad is what you want, comes with a filler cap on the side. alternatively i think you can purchase inline caps that splice into the upper rad hose
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Yeah I've got one, that's cool how would you suggest blocking them is there blanking plugs I should be using or just find something about rite size stick it in and put jubilee clip on it? Depends what aorta pressure it is I suppose.
Any idea about what wire off that plug I should be using.
Cheers
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length of pipe with something jubileed in to block it would be ok, provided you can get summat the right size for each hose. other option is to get another of them metal pipes and have the fitting welded up :)
I'm not sure what the other 2 wires do, i see some wire tracing using those diagrams i sent in your future!
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Awesome cheers dude!
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rite more questions! sorry lol
Been up to scrappy and found this plug, which has the fuel pump wire (red/yellow) going into it, then a yellow connector, then coming out of it is two red/yellow wires, one big one small (diameter) so this is what the polo uses i assume, would cutting it in after fuse be the rite idea?
Sorrry if im being bit stupid havent had a chance to even have a look at mk1 for a while, so mite make sense tomorow, never know.
Cheers
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the big wire would be the one to use for the pump, i think the thin one might be power for the labda sensor or maybe the injectors. or it could be a seperate line to the lift pump i guess? either way the main pump wants a chunky wire :)
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Sweet yeah this wire splitter thing was inside the car just after fusebox so it's deinatly for both pumps but I'm just trying to figure out where u should splice it in, after the fuse in that picture? Whatcha think? I'm going to do a couple of bits on it now so I'll have a look and a think.
Cheers
Dom
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deffo after the fuse, dont want it to set fire to the car loom if it rubs thru somewhere and shorts out eh ;)
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more questions! any idea how you modify the gear linkage/inside gear stick turret so it will run with a 5 speed? i can get pics if that any help.
i have never changed/set up gear linkages either so how do you usually set it up, got it clamped on the shifting rod thing but i think it may be a bit to far back as it doesnt feel right. i can get 1 mayb 2 gears, maybe not even that as it just rocks the hole engine (havent tightened everything up yet)
cheers
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afaik you have to get under the car and do something to the bottom of the gearstick to allow you to move it over to where 5th should be, not done this myself so cant offer much more than that! I assume there is some kind of stop you bend or chop off?
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have you managed to get the gearbox issues sorted yet? i fitted a polo mk3 5 speed into my mark 1 for the gearbox mounting i used a scirocco 1.8 mount which i turned u8pside down, not forgetting to turn the rubber inside to compensate and welded onto the mk1 4 speed mount, this worked perfectly. im afraid i haven't got any pics worth noting is you dont cut off anything from the scirocco or mk1 gti mount and only use the side pieces with the mounting holes of the mk1 mount.
with regards to the linkage i used the mk1 4 speed linkage and lever mated to the 5 speed link rod at the c clip. i had a lot of problems adjusting the lever to get 5th gear when i fitted this and if i got 5th i lost 1st. eventually i sorted this by making a jig to set this. you must ensure that the lever is completely central in the aperture with regards foward movement, and if memory serves me correctly as i did this in 2003, 12mm from the left hand side im afraid it is trial and error, but im certain i made the jig from a guide somewhere on club gti.