GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: Teutonic_Tamer on 14 September 2009, 09:49
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OK, after reading a few peeps 'exploits' on how they are treating their brand new GTIs (or any other brand new car) - I think it is important to firmly stress just how important correctly running in an engine is. :nerd:
The most obvious advice is to RTFM, and do NOT ignore it. :smiley: There are more 'detailed' ways of correctly running in an engine, which I've previously posted, and I'm frantically searching the forum - but havn't yet found the golden nugget thread. But I'll list a few theads of importance.
Some brief info on why you need to run in: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=65747
EDIT: more threads:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=58268
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=55825
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=58750 - this one is a tasty thread, because it has links to thick yankie opinions :rolleyes:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=57521 - not quite 'running in', but some info on how running in affects oil consumption
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OK, a 'cut and paste'
"For a piston engine, a good running in regime would be to start off with very light throttle, low revs, and light engine loads - and progressively build up both revs and loads (but still avoiding WOT) - and end aiming for full throttle, max revs, and max engine loading at about 1,200-1,500 miles. It is absolutely vital not to maintain a "constant" rev loading, say for the first 600 miles, and then to cane the pants off it suddenly. You need to vary the engine revs, up-to, say 3,500rpm (not consantly at 3,500rpm) for the first 300 miles, then upto 4,500rpm for another 300 miles, and so-on."
0 - 300 miles up to 2,500 rpm / 1/4 throttle
300 - 600 miles up to 3,500 rpm / 1/2 throttle
600 - 800 miles up to 4,500 rpm / 1/2 throttle
800 - 1,000 miles up to 5,500 rpm / 3/4 throttle
1,000 - 1,200 miles up to 6,500 rpm / 3/4 throttle
1,200 - onwards max rpm / full throttle
The most crucial thing when running in, is to vary the engine speeds within those thresholds, so for example, between 600 and 800 miles, don't religiously stick at 4,500 rpm for the whole 200 miles - vary it up to 4,500 rpm."
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I cannot agree enough about how important it is that we follow this advice. I write this from experience of not running in a new car properly when I was younger. A lot may think that its OK and their new car or previous new cars have been fine but I can assure you all that you are seriously damaging the engine.
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Please, please find it :) I couldn't myself
And thanks in advance!
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i would be v interested in your views on running in an engine TT. i have 500 miles on mine, been taking it easy (in general keeping it to 3000/3500 revs; i have on the odd occasion gone to 5000 revs but rarely.) i was looking at taking it easy till 1000 miles then start to put my foot down a bit more. is this the norm?
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TT is quoted in this thread, I hope you won't mind...
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=83769.10
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Looking forward to seeing the run in schedule
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I'd be interested to see what's suggested.
Personally, I don't 'run in' to any strict guidelines...I take it easy for the first 100 miles or so to let the tyres scrub in, the brakes bed in, the the dampers settle and to make sure nothing is going to fall off...I warm the engine up properly (using the oil temp gauge - back on the Mk6?) and let it cool down after a run...
Beyond that I don't bounce it off the limiter, load it up hard or labour the engine.
In between, I use it.
After a couple of hundred miles of backroads and varied load journeys I just use it properly.
My 1996 85000 mile 16v Mk3's internals are like new - and it's was treated the same way. As was every new car I've ever owned...and I've not broken any of them.
Oh, and I won't use variable service intervals either. It has it's oil changed annually, or possibly twice a year depending on use.
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Sensible S3.
Also watch you don't crash the car after 10 days use. The 10 day thrash and crash is like a curse on new cars.
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Sensible S3.
Sensible S3...yeah, great for traction.
Sadly, so lacking in feeling and information passing that you have no idea you have run out of grip, and when you brake, you end up with a £30k sledge with 4 x 225 wide sliding points.
Been there, done that...frightened the sh*t out of myself.
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^^ sounds like an expensive lesson :undecided:
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^^ sounds like an expensive lesson :undecided:
Luckily not...
The driver coming the other way performed miracles and I sat there Shi*ting myself as I counted every one of my 9 lives go by...and I hit nothing.
I then turned round, nursed it home and parked it back in the garage...and stayed in until the snow had gone.
Not nice.
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I'd be interested to see what's suggested.
Personally, I don't 'run in' to any strict guidelines...I take it easy for the first 100 miles or so to let the tyres scrub in, the brakes bed in, the the dampers settle and to make sure nothing is going to fall off...I warm the engine up properly (using the oil temp gauge - back on the Mk6?) and let it cool down after a run...
Beyond that I don't bounce it off the limiter, load it up hard or labour the engine.
In between, I use it.
After a couple of hundred miles of backroads and varied load journeys I just use it properly.
My 1996 85000 mile 16v Mk3's internals are like new - and it's was treated the same way. As was every new car I've ever owned...and I've not broken any of them.
Oh, and I won't use variable service intervals either. It has it's oil changed annually, or possibly twice a year depending on use.
I agree with this approach. Life is too short to molly coddle an engine :smiley:
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I agree with this approach. Life is too short to molly coddle an engine :smiley:
Don't get me wrong...I warm it up and cool it down properly...but beyond that, I have a warranty...so if I can't break it in 3 years, it's a good one.
I'll be bored and looking to change by the time the warranty is out anyway...so I'm not overly concerned about what happens when I've sold it.
Use it...you've paid for it.
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ok then, so as T_T loves to say RTFM.... so here's the section from P60 of booklet 3.2
The engine needs to be run in during the first 1500km.
up to 1k km:
- do not drive faster than 3/4 of top speed. (i.e. 112 mph)
- do not use full throttle
- avoid high engine speeds
- do not tow a trailer
from 1k to 1.5k km:
- speeds can be gradually increased to the maximum road speed or engine speed (rpm)
during its first few hours of running, the internal friction in the engine is greater than later on when all the moving parts have bedded down.
if the engine is run in gently, the life of the engine will be increased and its oil consumption reduced.
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The MK6 has an oil temp gauge? ? ?
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Scroll up or down on the MFD using the steering wheel controls until you find oil temp', wait till it's nice and hot then drive however you want.
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Scroll up or down on the MFD using the steering wheel controls until you find oil temp', wait till it's nice and hot then drive however you want.
does it read like the early ones?
Not displaying until over 50 degrees?...I keep the engine to 3000RPM max until I see a reading, but don't give it beans until it's up at 90 degrees ish.
Regardless, good to have it back - it's more relevant to the well being of the eingin than water temperature in my view.
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Yes exactly the same as before and that's about the right temperature as well.
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Re-edited first two posts with some more info! :afro:
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Re-edited first two posts with some more info! :afro:
Hmm...life is too short for some of that overly prescriptive stuff.
Warm it up, don't labour it, don't thrash it and cool it down...be midful of the rest of the car being new (first 100 miles)...and just use it.
That's never let me down in 20 years of running new cars in.
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What amazes me is the number of people out there who will say 'you don't need to run in modern engines' or similar. If only they'd look to someone more educated in the subject of mechanical engineering than a salesman... Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.
I'm not suggesting any of you are stupid, by the way.
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What amazes me is the number of people out there who will say 'you don't need to run in modern engines' or similar. If only they'd look to someone more educated in the subject of mechanical engineering than a salesman... Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.
I'm not suggesting any of you are stupid, by the way.
Ahh...but I'm not suggesting you mollycoddle it, or that you abuse it.
Modern manufacturing technology makes engines fit with tighter tolerances than ever before, modern oils lubricate better...some engines are dyno tested in the factory to ensure they make the numbers...or they don't get fitted (Porsche flat 6s for example).
Now, tell me how wise it is to mollycoddle an engine that's done 2 hours flat out on an engine dyno?
Hmm...
The car, you have to run in...make sure nothing falls off, bed in the brake friction material, let the dampers settle in etc...but the modern engine needs little by way of 'running in'.
I know what the insides of my tuned 2.0 16v ABF looks like - you can still see the honing marks on the bores, the bearings are like new, the oilways spotless etc...after 85000 miles and no running in.
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Sorry Ess_Three, I was commenting on the 'general populace' who tend to rely on their point-of-sale or bloke next door as a guide to how to treat a new engine. I generally agree with your views. You obviously know what you are talking about, as do I.
I had a Mk2 GTI which I ran for close to 100,000 miles from new without using oil. Oil changes were done at 10,000 mile intervals and only fully synthetic oil was used. It was always driven sympathetically when cold and allowed to warm up before being used to the full.
That car was treated to a reasonably careful running-in period of around 1000 miles. As you say, no labouring the engine and no high revs. I didn't adhere to any strict guide, although I did (mostly) keep the engine below 3500 rpm for the first few hundred miles. After passing it to my brother the engine was torn down as a precaution and presented us with what basically amounted to a brand new set of components (much like your ABF) - I was astonished. As much as German engineering, I put this down to using the right oil, treating the engine well and yes, care running it in when new.
A bench-run high performance engine from the likes of Porsche or Ferrari will obviously not necessarily require a careful running-in procedure and modern tolerances are often held more tighly than 20 years ago. However, be under no illusion that all mass produced engine tolerances are so narrow or specified in such a way as to make them ideal. A cam lobe ground on machine A will still need to wear slightly in order to conform to a follower similarly finished on machine B. Asperity contact will still occur under high loads and boundary lubrication conditions. Lubricants will still carry contaminants around the engine.
I will concede that for many modern engines which you are going to keep for 5 years/50,000 miles you probably don't need to worry about being careful with running it in. How you treat it day-to day (allowing oil to warm up, not labouring the engine at low speed etc) and regular oil changes with decent synthetic oil is far more important. I would mention however that turbochargers turn very, very quickly and have bearings which are far more sensitive to wear particulate, oil degradation and other contaminants. Personally, I would want to carefully run in any turbocharged car (and even perform an early initial oil change) to ensure longevity of the turbo if nothing else.
Following the general guidelines given by T_T or the more basic good-sense advice from yourself to treat the engine carefully when new can avoid unanticipated damage which might well result in accelerated wear or even premature failure. You never know when you might want to keep a car for 12 years - I know I didn't.
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"....start off with very light throttle, low revs........It is absolutely vital not to maintain a "constant" rev loading.... You need to vary the engine revs, up-to, say 3,500rpm (not consantly at 3,500rpm) for the first 300 miles......
0 - 300 miles up to 2,500 rpm / 1/4 throttle
The most crucial thing when running in, is to vary the engine speeds."
Thats going to be an interesting trip up the M1/A1 for 300 miles i will be doing after collection. :laugh:
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You never know when you might want to keep a car for 12 years - I know I didn't.
No me neither...13 and counting for my Anniversary.
I think common sense is a better rule than a salesmans rule book.
1/4 throttle for 300 miles! Really.... :rolleyes:
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Well im now on about 850miles.. so thats enough running in for me. Next time shes warm shes getting her hinney spanked :evil:
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Well im now on about 850miles.. so thats enough running in for me. Next time shes warm shes getting her hinney spanked :evil:
:shocked: Sure it's a 'she'??
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Well im now on about 850miles.. so thats enough running in for me. Next time shes warm shes getting her hinney spanked :evil:
:shocked: Sure it's a 'she'??
Always a she :wink:
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Why do you lease boys care about running in?
I thought you took pleasure in making the car a nasty as possible for the next owner.
As Quintin Wilson says, " Rough owners, rough cars".
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Why do you lease boys care about running in?
I thought you took pleasure in making the car a nasty as possible for the next owner.
As Quintin Wilson says, " Rough owners, rough cars".
I might buy it afterwards.
I like quentin wilson.
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What amazes me is the number of people out there who will say 'you don't need to run in modern engines' or similar. If only they'd look to someone more educated in the subject of mechanical engineering than a salesman... Stupid is as stupid does, I guess.
I'm not suggesting any of you are stupid, by the way.
Ahh...but I'm not suggesting you mollycoddle it, or that you abuse it.
Modern manufacturing technology makes engines fit with tighter tolerances than ever before,
Agreed - but they still aint perfect.
modern oils lubricate better...
And therin lies the problem. The modern high quality fully synthetic oils have virtually illiminated ALL engine wear - and this is one of the reasons why engines still DO need running in.
some engines are dyno tested in the factory to ensure they make the numbers...or they don't get fitted (Porsche flat 6s for example).
But NO VAG engine is 'run-in' on a bench test. The bench test is just what it says on the tin - just a test. And as for the factory running them before they leave the factory gates - there are only two VAG mainstream-marque factories who use a 'human' to run up the engines - and those two are Neckarsulm (home of 'quattro GmbH' who make Audi RS models and the R8) and Dresden (aka the 'Transparent Factory', where VW Phaetons are hand built). All the other VAG factories, including Wolfsburg, simply use an automated test - but they are NOT 'dyno' tested, nor 'run in' in any way. :nerd:
Now, tell me how wise it is to mollycoddle an engine that's done 2 hours flat out on an engine dyno?
In case you are forgetting, this is a GTI foum, not a Porsche forum! :tongue: :wink:
The car, you have to run in...make sure nothing falls off, bed in the brake friction material, let the dampers settle in etc...but the modern engine needs little by way of 'running in'.
Sorry, but strongly disagree!
I know what the insides of my tuned 2.0 16v ABF looks like - you can still see the honing marks on the bores, the bearings are like new, the oilways spotless etc...after 85000 miles and no running in.
And . . . one swallow doesn't make a summer, and all that . . .
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just out of interest, how old are you TT?
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1/4 throttle for 300 miles! Really.... :rolleyes:
Erm . . . it is just a guideline.
If you personally don't want to bother running in your engine, then fine. However, based on my own very valid experiences - the way the engine was run in can have long lasting issues.
But I also think it is vital to stress that an engine which is permanently 'mollycoddled' can actually be very problematic too. At the end of the day, it is simply about taking it easy for the first 1,000 miles or so, ALWAYS taking it easy when the engine (coolant AND oil) isn't up to normal operating temps - but once the first 1000 miles are past, and the car is warm, then progressively let the engine rev upto the red line - for brief periods at first, and then progressively for longer periods. :nerd:
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TT how often would you recommend an oil change??
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TT how often would you recommend an oil change??
i know im not tt but 10k or every year at least :smiley:
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Cheers, I know thats what the manual says but surely after 10k the oils a mess? Would any sooner not be better?
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Cheers, I know thats what the manual says but surely after 10k the oils a mess? Would any sooner not be better?
the sooner the better obviously.. but if you use a high quality synthetic oil (e.g. longlife oil) then you will be just fine after 10k. I ran my R32 for 23k before it required its first service.. usually driven very hard from cold every day for short distances under sometimes heavy load.. and she was just fine :lipsrsealed: :grin:
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Cheers, does the mk6 come with long life oil or should I have to replace the existing oil? Just want the car to be running as smooth as can be.
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will most likely come with LL oil but check your service book to be sure
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Ta mate, Deano :wink: