GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: redcarboy on 12 September 2004, 18:35
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I read somewhere today that if you fit a cone air filter to your car you will expirience a loss of power due to the fact it sucks hot air back in from the engine when it needs to be cold air and people are returning to the old box type filter is this true can't say that i know what do you folks think anyone had any problems? :o
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Ive got one mounted on the end of my carbaretta (from a vauxhall) Its right behind the grill and a fair way from the block, Its positioned sideways to air flows right through the grill when im moving, This means that the carb can just abstract whatever air it needs without it being forced down and causing carb freeze, That mixed with the twin webber carb thats being fitted next week i should gain some good power.
Its all about where you position it, Its only air, As long as plenty of it is getting to the motor feel free to experement with it, It cant do any damage to your car. The worst that will happen is that you restrict the air flow and the car becomes slower, Untill you change the setup and its back to the way it was 8)
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the old box type some do have the manifold pipe connected to them!
most of this is incorrect! if you get your engine hot! and the touch your inlet manifold which the air flows through you will find that it gets pretty hot..... and lets not forget that the inlet is straight above the exhaust manifold!
so even if cold air was getting in by the time it passes throught the inlet its already warm........
and ie no difference!
i have the k&n kit and the only difference i get is when its really cold about 12c or below! thats when the car goes faster! with either filter on a warm day there will not be a noticeable difference!
apart from the k&n being less restrictive!
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If you just replace your airbox with a cone filter the results will be poor due to hot air from the engine, hence the invention of the induction kit. Basically a tube between the filter and a supply of clean cold air.
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Or alternativly do what the honda boys do, Use a AEM long arm kit.
Basically the arm between the block and the Cone filter is longer and positioned downwards to the base of the car, Just above your suspention where the air is coolest.
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The airbox connection from the manifold is flap operated and once the engine is up to temp the flap is closed.
I'm not a big fan of cone filters, but if you do fit one your best off making a box to close off the hot engine bay air from your inner wing area.
The air travels through the inlet manifold too fast for it to get heated up.
Cold air is better because its more dense than hot air so effectively you can fit more cold air thasn hot air into the same space.
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There's always been loads of controversy over this one ...
Basically there's more chance of contaminating the air with a cone filter unless it's shielded from the heat in some way. BUT yes in ideal conditions you'll see more air flowing, so with the correct fuel levels you will see an increase in bhp - but only 1 or 2 !
The main question is what do you want out this ... just the noise or more performance?
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You could always get a RAM intake kit ;) Basically its a tube comming from your motor, Straight to a large scoop thats usally positioned behind a grill or in a bonnit vent, The best way to get cool air, However it has no filter in it, So best used only for the drag strip ;)
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Basically i'm still umming on which induction kit to get been quoted ?97 for a hitachi 92-97 at local performance shop wanting to increase the hp but if this is only gonna up it 1-2 hp hardly seems worth it for a bit of extra growl. :)
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Thats where your going wrong mate, Dont think of it as a performance upgrade, Think of it as a stepping stone. At the moment your car will only get about 1-2BHP with a intake, However when combined with a full exhaust kit, A Exhaust headder, HT leads and racing spark plugs you will of obtained the basic level of performance modifications, From that point your set to start making larger mods to your motor.
If i could recomend one for you it would be the carbonio long arm kit,
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/vw%20golfmk3/engine.html
(http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/images/carbonio4.jpg)
Howeever if you want a cheaper option then try the ram air kit (situated below the carbonio kit on the same page, Both are long arm ram air kits located behind the grills where the cold air is maximised, Located away from the air box, If your worried about heat however, But a foil engine dress up kit from halfords and cover the pipe with the head reflective coating. This way your getting air from below the motor (and as we all know, Heat rises) And the ram air kits are only about ?55 for a 8V and ?63 for a 16V
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Basically i'm still umming on which induction kit to get been quoted ?97 for a hitachi 92-97 at? local performance shop wanting to increase the hp but if this is only gonna up it 1-2 hp hardly seems worth it for a bit of extra growl. :)
if ur gettin an extra 1-2hp then id go for it each bit of hp makes a hell of difference it might not seem it but every xtra one adds. its true cones do suck in hot air tho if u can mount a long stainlesteel pipe to go from the front of ur engine bay to the cone filter then ur car`s performance shud improve abit.
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Go for the K&N kit they are still the best. They were also the first to come up with after market filters with increased airflow.
As others have said a filter on its own wont give hardly any bhp improvement, but it allows further mods to be made and is usually a first step.
Just make sure you fit a delivery pipe that collects air from outside the engine bay.
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CHEERS FELLAS MUCH APPRICIATED ;D
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Personally, if your looking to spend almost ?100 and your looking for performance, first of all how far are u prepared to go in the grand scale of things ....
If u wanna see big gains quickly, save the money on the air filter and think ahead to chips, cams and head work. If it's pure power your after ultimately that's were you'll end up after spending ?500 on a full stainless exhaust, induction kit, manifold HT leads etc and only see say 5 bhp increase. Not alot for your money!
Everybody is quite right in saying it's the overall solution that provides the performance - but unless money is a major factor don't always think small first.
?500 on a cam(s), New ECU chip and mild head work would see anything up to 20bhp increase - then surround these with exhausts etc.
Really it's personal preferance, but coming for a BSc in Auto Engineering i'd take? much bigger steps initially as there's alot more to gain at the start.
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Only if my lotto numbers come up this weekend christmas is a coming and 4 kids later=bankruptcy so having to save bits here and there to afford my mods still need bonnet respraying after it was chavved as well thats gonna cost ?100 notes. :(
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Lol .. well in that case there's no problem with the idea at all - just always worth asking at the start "what's the end product your after?" as some decisions made at the start can have a HUGE impact if not thought about properly.
If you're looking at Air Filters for that sorta money I'd say stay away from foam applications from people like Piper; the foam degrades and can cause havoc with your air flow sensor !!
K&N are about the best really for that ammount of money.
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Could always bodge me a filter out of old drain pipe and dishcloths. ;D
Might have to get me hold of a 16v mk2. ;)
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As ur an avid ebayer check for a K&N on there. I picked mine up from ebay, brand new for about 60 notes inc postage.
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lol thats sorta what i did with my carb, I got a carb pipe from a Mk1 golf, Took it to halfords and asked for a green filter that will slot over the end, After that was done i bolted it all togeather with some zip ties and fitted it, Works a treat ?;D
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If you just wan't noise your best of drilling the air box.
I have a spare mk3 8v bottom if you want it. Yours for the price of postage. Just message me your address and i'll whack it in the post.
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If you just wan't noise your best of drilling the air box.
I have a spare mk3 8v bottom if you want it.? Yours for the price of postage.? Just message me your address and i'll whack it in the post.
Now Theres an idea you got mail. ;DAs ur an avid ebayer check for a K&N on there. I picked mine up from ebay, brand new for about 60 notes inc postage.
Yeah i keep looking was bidding on a mk3 k+n couple of weeks ago but bidding got silly at the end so had to let it go. gonna drill the airbox as 1990 suggested till after crimbo gives me chance to get together some other smaller parts as well to stick on all at once. A sheep in wolf's clothing he! he! ;D
plan on full magnex exhaust and lowering springs by 40-50mm once winter is over if i can pick up parts cheapish i will plenty of scrappy's within range of where i am. :)
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Try Stuart at EuroCarParts in the 'GoodGuys' section.
I got my K&N for about ?50 (I think), got a really good discount. They were the cheapest I could source at the time.
Hope that helps.
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Try Stuart at EuroCarParts in the 'GoodGuys' section.
I got my K&N for about ?50 (I think), got a really good discount. They were the cheapest I could source at the time.
Hope that helps.
CHEERS M8 ;D
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write a letter to the golf mag. get a free one ;D