GolfGTIforum.co.uk

General => Car audio => Topic started by: mattyass on 24 August 2009, 13:36

Title: Bought an amp. Now what??
Post by: mattyass on 24 August 2009, 13:36
Hello all

Im after upgrading my front door speakers in the mk3. When i bought it it came with some fli (inteceptors i think) which dont really ofer much quality.

I want to upgrade these but am on a budget. Im looking for a new set for around the £45 mark.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated????
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesBaby on 24 August 2009, 16:50
Hi

I put these Alpine's in the front and in the rear. They are cheap and a step up from the Kenwoods that were in mine.

http://www.online-caraudio.co.uk/shopscr225.html

I then bought a cheap 4 channel amp from a eBay shop (£40 with wiring kit - Mutant) and then wired them up. Sounds ace for the price. But you will need a sub as the cheaper end of the scale speakers don't produce anything usefull below 100hz.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MUTANT-MT2004-4x70W-RMS-STEREO-4-CHANNEL-AMP-AMPLIFIER_W0QQitemZ370133089342QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Audio_TV_Electronics_In_Car_Entertainment_GPS_Car_Amplifiers_PP?hash=item562da6bc3e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

However if I had around £45 ish + I would give these Pioneer ones a go.
http://www.online-caraudio.co.uk/shopscr1042.html

J
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 25 August 2009, 09:21
Thanks James. I'll probably look into buying slightly higher end speakers as i dont want to amp them up just yet. I'll save that til i get a proper audio set up.

The Alpine's and Pioneer's look good tho.

Im trying to keep my eye on some ebay bargains and am currently bidding on some Infinity Kappa's.

Are there any real standout makes i should look out for? And equally any crap ones that i should be careful of?
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesBaby on 25 August 2009, 10:48
Hi

Just a thought re how you spend your cash.

The problem IMO with buying slightly better speakers\high end is that you will not get the best from them if you just run them from a head unit. The sound quality will be affected more by the output from the head unit rather than speaker capability. For example most head units that are 4 x 50w actually only put out about 18w RMS. So your 35w, 45w, or 50w speakers aren't getting enough clean power anyway let alone potential 70w+ speakers. The temptation is then to turn up the head unit beyond half way, but then you send distortion to the speakers. This distortion then makes it seem that the speakers are not capable of handling the power due to them sounding so bad. When in actual fact it's the signal being sent to them.

Take my setup for e.g. I have an Alpine head unit running the Alpine 45w speakers. At volume setting 17 it sounds ok, but it's not loud enough and the low end is very poor. But at volume 23 it's plenty loud enough but then the treble is harsh and the lower end just farts and rattles the doors.

However, when I send the "17" level signal to an amp, I can amplify this clean signal to a higher level. The result is a really nice loud clean crisp sound with no door farting (louder than volume 23 on the head unit). On top of this you then have the extra control of not sending anything below 80hz to the doors and letting the sub handle it. This makes the door speakers sound even punchy'er. Thus you have achieved nice sound with cheaper speakers.

So in other words, get the balance right on how you spend your money. A 4 channel amp can be had off eBay quite cheap and it will make a world of difference. Plus, you can upgrade speakers (or even your cheap amp) to your hearts content later, knowing that between your head unit and the amp you will be able to send enough clean power to make them loud and crisp.

I'd say that for now, don't go above your current speaker budget. Then save up and get an amp. I bought and installed mine for about £80. Sounds awesome.  Give me a call and I can talk you through the install if you want. :cool:
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 25 August 2009, 10:57
Wow! Cheers dude thats some great info. Hmm sh!t shall i just get an amp now then?? Descisions descisions!

I am a quite the novice when it comes to audio but am well into my music so really need to get my sounds sorted.

Ok so maybe i could amp up the speakers that are in the car. There are some xpolod 6x9s in the back and the fli integrators in the front (installed by previous owner) i get decent enough quality with these but really want to upgrade.

So in therory i could just get a decent 4 cannel amp (4 channel??) and vastly iprove the sound quaility??

What about a set of components? Could i run those in the front thus giving more power to the 6x9s in the rear?

The can of worms in now open!!
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesBaby on 25 August 2009, 11:51
I would get a 4 channel amp and power all the speakers from it. If you are keeping the 6x9 then use them as the rear channel, and power the fronts from the front channels on the amp. You can even use the crossovers on the amp to remove any frequencies that the speakers are not able to handle (the very low end stuff). I reckon you will be grinning when you hear it.

If you are just starting out don't go mad on high end gear. But rather get the install right so you are ready for the future. Use thick power cable from battery to amp, and ground. RCA from head unit should be sent down the other side of the car to the power. etc etc. I might post an install guide when I get a moment.

Either way if you install an amp you have nothing to lose. You will make your existing stuff sound much better. Whilst also getting yourself ready for potential upgrades in the future.  :smiley:
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 25 August 2009, 11:57
Hmm. Definate food for thought fella. I like your thinking. I'll keep my eye out for a decent enough amp.

U say i need a 4 cannel amp is that regarding the 4 speakers?

There is a mutant one on ebay for cheap including wires. And a couple on edition that ive got my eye on. Might just wait til e38 and see what might be for sale there.

Your help is much appreciated fella. And a write up would be awesome!
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesBaby on 25 August 2009, 15:31
Yes, 4 channel amp because you have 4 speakers.

I got the mutant amp and I think it's great. The wiring kit that comes with it is ok except for the power cables, they are far too thin. You will need to get some of your own, proper stuff. I got mine from here http://www.knukonceptz.co.uk/productMaster.cfm?Category=Power%20Wire (http://www.knukonceptz.co.uk/productMaster.cfm?Category=Power%20Wire)

Get the 4 Gauge power wire. Here is a great guide to installing audio gear http://www.caraudiohelp.com/how_to_install_a_car_amp/how_to_install_a_car_amp.htm (http://www.caraudiohelp.com/how_to_install_a_car_amp/how_to_install_a_car_amp.htm) . It's just for a reference really.

You will need :
4 metres for the +Positive
2 metres for -Ground (get different colour to +)
RCA leads to go from Head Unit. Check your unit to see how many outputs it has. If only one then you will need on ly 1 RCA but then a Male to Female RCA splitter to go at the Amp end.
Crimp connectors and crimping tool. (The ratchet type makes the job so much easier)

 :smiley:


Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 25 August 2009, 15:46
Nice one James

Top stuff here im liking the sound of this. Might try n hold out until edition to see if i can pick up a decent amp for much cheapness.

That installation guide is very useful i'll definately be referring to that.

With regards to the power wire. Do u know what lengths it is sold at from that site you've referred me to?? And did u get one of those fuse holders?
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesBaby on 25 August 2009, 15:57
Great stuff. It's the way forward  :cool:

Re the cable. They sell it per metre. So the price on the site is per metre, but then there is a delivery charge of £4 per shipment. I think it is very reasonable indeed as you get proper wire. Not some chinese rubbish that has the outer jacket thicker than the cable inside it. (They do this due to the increase in the price of copper.)

Re the fuse holder. If you get the mutant amp it will come with a kit, and in the kit are some things are are usable. Such as the fuse holder, and the 60 amp fuse. If you don't get that, just get one seperately. Some of the pre-made kits are daylight robbery.

 :smiley:
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 25 August 2009, 16:00
Smashing cheers fella.

Im gonna keep an eye on a few things on ebay and such but it definately sounds like amping my current speakers up is the way to go.

Cheers for all your help dude. I'll keep u posted on how i get on.
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesBaby on 25 August 2009, 17:56
Yeah now worries bud. It's all good.

 :cool:
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 26 August 2009, 11:16
Right ive been thinking about this.

If i were to get a 2 channel amp to run just the front speakers. Will this improve the sound by much? As stated earlier they're only Fli integrators.

I am suggesting this as i realised i use the bluetooth function on my hu so surely if i have an amp powering all 4 speakers this feature will be lost?

If i were to go down this route and power just the rears with the hu will i see an improvement in thier quality as the hu will only be powering 2 rather than 4 speakers?

Cheers ya'll
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: JamesBaby on 26 August 2009, 17:08
Right ive been thinking about this.

If i were to get a 2 channel amp to run just the front speakers. Will this improve the sound by much? As stated earlier they're only Fli integrators.

I am suggesting this as i realised i use the bluetooth function on my hu so surely if i have an amp powering all 4 speakers this feature will be lost?

If i were to go down this route and power just the rears with the hu will i see an improvement in thier quality as the hu will only be powering 2 rather than 4 speakers?

Cheers ya'll

You could get a 2 channel amp and do the fronts yes. And it will be great, plus you could still upgrade the speakers in the future. I only said 4 channel because you had 4 sets of speakers. (A HU is not good enough for 6x9 rears by the way. A bit of rear fill sound only perhaps)
The bluetooth feature should not be lost. It should just simply pass audio through the RCA's to the amp.
Whatever is powered by the amp will improve. If you only power the rears from the HU, they will have no change from what they are sounding like now.
You could bridge the spare 2 channels on a 4 ch amp, and power the fronts and a small subwoofer instead of course.
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: B-chi on 26 August 2009, 19:49
An amp plays the signal sent from a hu.

The hu plays the signal it reads from cd/aux in/bluetooth.

As said above 2ch for fronts, then other amp when needed.

4ch amp use only 2 ch then bridge the other 2 for sub.
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 27 August 2009, 09:55
Thanks guys.

Right so here's the plan. Im gonna get a 2 channel amp for now of decentish quality (see what ebay finds) and amp up the front 2 Fli speakers leaving the dodgy rear 6x9s to run of the hu.

Hopefully this will give a nice improvement for now.

Then in future i will buy a set of components for the front and continue running them off the amp and replace the 6x9s with the old fli's. Noddy who had the car before me put them in the rear 3 quarter panels so i may need to replace them as they'll have a chonking great hole in them!

Then get a sub and amp, 2ch or mono to give me some bass.

How's that sound? Anyone wanna lend me some monies. Haha!

Cheers for all your help fella's
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 27 August 2009, 10:05
http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/stock01/kac6202.asp (http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/stock01/kac6202.asp)

Seen this for sale on another forum. Any good?

Or maybe this one on ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160357679577&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160357679577&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

Cheers
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: B-chi on 27 August 2009, 21:58
Mate you've got the right idea with the buying the amp then upgrade gradually.

i would personally (sooo many people go on about 4 speakers, bla bla, but this is me) go for a descent 2ch say around 2x70-120wrms, descent make. I would only run the fronts off the amp & nothing else. I would then buy a mono amp or 2ch (& bridge it) & run a sub.

The problem with rear speakers is it drags the sound behind you. Your ears hear things best that are in front of you.

Also whats the point in spending money on a descent front end, then ruining it with sh!t quality speakers behind you ruining the sound.

Your stereo is only as good as your weakest link!
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 28 August 2009, 15:49
Sweet cheers for that B-chi. And cheers for your help Jamesbaby.

Gonna get myself a 2 channel amp and some decent wiring and hopefully get it hooked up for the trip to edition.

Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: mattyass on 14 September 2009, 14:47
Ok. Lets bump this one up. Just picked up a Kenwood KAC 624 2 channel amp off the bay. Anyone with any experience of these?

So now the next step is fitting. Im thinking of fitting it under the passenger seat. As mentioned earlier i am on a tight budget so was looking at an autolead or Fli 8 guage wiring kit.

I am a novice but am looking forward to tackling the installation myself. Anyone with any tips/write ups or owt would be much appreciated.

Cheers
Title: Re: 17cm speaker recommendations
Post by: B-chi on 14 September 2009, 15:54
Mk3s are a joy to lay cabels in. The plastic trim along the door frame pops up with loads of room (I've got 3 50mm2 cables running down mine). There's a grommit that side of the engine bay as well.

As your running 8awg keep the power as short as possible. The under seat idea is ideal.