GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: AlanD on 20 August 2009, 09:11
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Not having much joy at the moment, my dash is light up like a Christmas tree. Need new brakes (low pad warning light on) and this morning my nearside dipped beam light has gone faulty (another light) :(
Anyway, I've noticed this over the last few weeks now and it doesnt do it all the time (was brought to my attention yseterday again). When Im letting the car cool down for 30 odd seconds my idle sometimes is very erratic and revs itself between 700-1100. What would cause it to do this (sensor?) as I think its probably going to be a good idea that it gets replaced and I can add it to my list.
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Not having much joy at the moment, my dash is light up like a Christmas tree. Need new brakes (low pad warning light on) and this morning my nearside dipped beam light has gone faulty (another light) :(
Do you have vag-com? Log all the fault codes, and then clear them. Get some new pads and a bulb - you cheapskate! :kiss:
And just to clarify, it IS just the bulb and pad lights, and nowt else? :undecided:
Anyway, I've noticed this over the last few weeks now and it doesnt do it all the time (was brought to my attention yseterday again). When Im letting the car cool down for 30 odd seconds my idle sometimes is very erratic and revs itself between 700-1100. What would cause it to do this (sensor?) as I think its probably going to be a good idea that it gets replaced and I can add it to my list.
Might be the MAF. What air filter are you running?
And maybe it is just down to high current electricals shutting down - such as air con, fans, even closing leccy windows or sunroof.
vag-com measuring blocks are really needed.
Oh, and you do know that just letting it idle for 30 seconds isn't really the best way of 'cooling down' the engine? :wink:
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Yes it is JUST the bulb and pads warning light. Bulb light came on this morning so will stop off at Halfords on the way home to get a new one. Pads are getting done soon, maybe lol (its a long story).
I don't have VAGCOM (another thing to add to my endless list of things I need) but will be at the Brands Hatch meet next week so will get one of the boys to bring it with them and get it scanned then. I am correct in that I need to clear faults, go for a drive and then rescan don't I?
I'll have to check when I get in (look at the receipt) but I'm pretty sure I'm running a Pipercross filter which got added when I put in my Carbon Speed CAI (that was back in March), either way its not the standard one.
To my knowledge taking it easy for the last mile or so and letting the engine run for 30 seconds is the best practise when shutting the engine off? If that is not true please enlighten me.
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I'll ask Dan to bring his laptop to Brands mate.
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I take it he has VAGCOM and all the leads? I thought you had it? Was just about to ask you on Facebook when I saw your post.
Thanks mate :)
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Yes it is JUST the bulb and pads warning light. Bulb light came on this morning so will stop off at Halfords on the way home to get a new one. Pads are getting done soon, maybe lol (its a long story).
Xenons or halogens? And you are still a cheapskate! :lipsrsealed:
I don't have VAGCOM (another thing to add to my endless list of things I need) but will be at the Brands Hatch meet next week so will get one of the boys to bring it with them and get it scanned then. I am correct in that I need to clear faults, go for a drive and then rescan don't I?
Yeah, just clear all the codes. You often find some 'legacy' codes hiding (maybe if the stealer done some work and failed to clear them, and also any alarm triggers) - and sometimes these can affect any fresh DTCs. Once cleared - any 'genuine' faults will soon reappear. And if your pads are only just catching the wear sensors, it may be another few days or so before the pad light reappears - which is handy to know for when a certain three letter test is due. :wink: :lipsrsealed:
I'll have to check when I get in (look at the receipt) but I'm pretty sure I'm running a Pipercross filter which got added when I put in my Carbon Speed CAI (that was back in March), either way its not the standard one.
IF it is the MAF, will the pipercross really be worth it? Just get an OEM paper element. Why do you think F1 engines dont use foam rubbish - they either use a paper element - or fcuk all!
I think I'll have on my epitaph:
"non-paper air filters are for mugs"
To my knowledge taking it easy for the last mile or so and letting the engine run for 30 seconds is the best practise when shutting the engine off? If that is not true please enlighten me.
Yeah, thats fine. The real nerdy way is to try and keep 'off-boost' for the last mile - so try keeping the revs below about 2.5 k, and only tickle the throttle. :nerd:
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Xenons or halogens? And you are still a cheapskate! :lipsrsealed:
Halogen, Im currently running the Phillips ones I got from powerbulbs. Im guessing Halfords will sell them, if they dont then there is a car spares place down the road from me which will sell individual ones so will just get one for now and order the Phillips ones online.
IF it is the MAF, will the pipercross really be worth it?
Probably not, it all came as one package with the CAI so that's why it went in. It doesnt do it offten, maybe once a week, if that, just odd and a bit concerning is all.
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I take it he has VAGCOM and all the leads? I thought you had it? Was just about to ask you on Facebook when I saw your post.
Thanks mate :)
I have the lead but needs dans laptop as
I don't have a laptop with windows on it.
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Alan have you changed the PCV valve since remapping etc? There prone to failure after power increase and can cause idle issues like you have. Mine was caused by the DV but you have the forge one, i know they require servicing but not sure what needs to be serviced? May be worth a look?
Sam
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Alan have you changed the PCV valve since remapping etc? There prone to failure after power increase and can cause idle issues like you have.
Huh . . . please explain how a remap can affect the PCV? Or do you mean the DV? :undecided:
Mine was caused by the DV but you have the forge one, i know they require servicing but not sure what needs to be serviced? May be worth a look?
If the DV is on its way out, then it would usually be much more bothersome during high levels of boost. Again, I can't see how a u/s DV can cause erratic idling! :undecided:
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Alan have you changed the PCV valve since remapping etc? There prone to failure after power increase and can cause idle issues like you have.
Huh . . . please explain how a remap can affect the PCV? Or do you mean the DV? :undecided:
Mine was caused by the DV but you have the forge one, i know they require servicing but not sure what needs to be serviced? May be worth a look?
If the DV is on its way out, then it would usually be much more bothersome during high levels of boost. Again, I can't see how a u/s DV can cause erratic idling! :undecided:
Hi TT.
PCV valve is prone to failure after a remap, i'll dig out some info in 2 min's over on 'the other site'
The DV is also an odd one, which neither me, or my mate who is a (decent) VW master tech could figure out the logic behind, but I can assure you 100% it does effect the idle as mine did (an someone else on this site) when I first bought the car. Would love an explaination as to why/how but after changing it everything ran sweet as a nut!?
Sam
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Just had a quick scout around but couldn't find anything worth posting, but basically would it be fair to say that if the PCV valve is obviously under positive pressure (boost?) then remapping will increase this pressure and lead to premature failure of the diaphagm?
Would that make sense TT?
Sam
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Id like to think my Forge DV isnt at fault. It went in a few days after the remap which was in December so only 8 months ago . . . . .
I'll see what VAGCOM says on Wednesday and update.
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Going back to the mk4 days, when I had a dodgy idle the first time it was the MAF (remember it doesn't always cause a fault code, you have to log it [or disconnect it] to see if its bad) and the second time it was a lambda (O2) sensor. The other mk4 favourite was the temp sender but I've not heard of this being an issue with the mk5...
Its annoying when stuff like that happens :sad:
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Just had a quick scout around but couldn't find anything worth posting, but basically would it be fair to say that if the PCV valve is obviously under positive pressure (boost?) then remapping will increase this pressure and lead to premature failure of the diaphagm?
Would that make sense TT?
Sam
The PCV valve has NOTHING to do with turbo boost! :rolleyes: It is ONLY the DV which is affected by turbo boost, unless you have modified your engine to work on the two stroke cycle!
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No idea then, you know better than me, but it is all the talk over on the 'other' forum about remapped car's PCV valve's failing and what is the best way to upgrade to prevent carbon deposits building up on the valves. :undecided: Presumably the more power you run the more pressure you have in the crankcase? You tell me as i'm not a technician!! :cool:
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No idea then, you know better than me, but it is all the talk over on the 'other' forum about remapped car's PCV valve's failing
So just 'cause someone on another forum got it wrong, but everyone agreed like a following flock of sheep - then that makes it 'correct' then?! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Which 'other' forum was this?
and what is the best way to upgrade to prevent carbon deposits building up on the valves. :undecided:
Ahhhh, that is a completely different issue - but has nothing to do with remaps or turbo boost - or any other similar 'off-tangent' hair-brain ideas!
Presumably the more power you run the more pressure you have in the crankcase? You tell me as i'm not a technician!! :cool:
Pressure in the crankcase has nothing to do with the turbo boost, nor 'power'. I suggest you go to a library and read some propper textbooks. :smiley:
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Just had a quick scout around but couldn't find anything worth posting, but basically would it be fair to say that if the PCV valve is obviously under positive pressure (boost?) then remapping will increase this pressure and lead to premature failure of the diaphagm?
Would that make sense TT?
Sam
The PCV valve has NOTHING to do with turbo boost! :rolleyes: It is ONLY the DV which is affected by turbo boost, unless you have modified your engine to work on the two stroke cycle!
The PCV valve may have nothing to do with boost, but it can be affected by it. Therefore increased boost can damage it.
Crankcase Ventilation
The crankcase is maintained in a constant
vacuum while the engine is running.
The crankcase breather that supplies
this vacuum is connected to the intake
manifold.
The crankcase blow-by gases are separated
in two stages. In the first stage, the
primary oil separator in the oil filter module
takes most of the oil out of the gases. A
second separator in the cylinder head cover
removes the remainder of the oil from the
gases.
Since a turbo engine requires a more
sophisticated pressure control system, a
two-stage pressure control valve is located
on the cylinder head cover. If vacuum exists
in the intake manifold, blow-by gases flow
directly into the intake manifold.
If a boost pressure is present in the intake
manifold, a one-way valve in the pressure
control valve housing closes and the blowby
gases flow into the cylinder head cover
ahead of the turbocharger. The system can
detect faulty installation of the pressure
control valve. Unmetered air is detected by
the reaction of the oxygen sensor.
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No idea then, you know better than me, but it is all the talk over on the 'other' forum about remapped car's PCV valve's failing
So just 'cause someone on another forum got it wrong, but everyone agreed like a following flock of sheep - then that makes it 'correct' then?! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Which 'other' forum was this?
and what is the best way to upgrade to prevent carbon deposits building up on the valves. :undecided:
Ahhhh, that is a completely different issue - but has nothing to do with remaps or turbo boost - or any other similar 'off-tangent' hair-brain ideas!
Presumably the more power you run the more pressure you have in the crankcase? You tell me as i'm not a technician!! :cool:
Pressure in the crankcase has nothing to do with the turbo boost, nor 'power'. I suggest you go to a library and read some propper textbooks. :smiley:
You seem rather belligerent T_T :sad: for someone whom people are asking your expert opinion about something which appears to be your profession? I am not a mechanic/technician/workshop monkey so my above suggestions were purely speculative based on a number of GTi owner's having the same problem with a particular component. Far to co-incidental for me.
Maybe an understandable reply to us mere mortal's about exactly why this could be of no relevance to said problem, would be a little more useful to the topic, rather than shoot anyone down in flames on the basis you have a far superior wealth of knowledge! :nerd:
Sam
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Just had a quick scout around but couldn't find anything worth posting, but basically would it be fair to say that if the PCV valve is obviously under positive pressure (boost?) then remapping will increase this pressure and lead to premature failure of the diaphagm?
Would that make sense TT?
Sam
The PCV valve has NOTHING to do with turbo boost! :rolleyes: It is ONLY the DV which is affected by turbo boost, unless you have modified your engine to work on the two stroke cycle!
The PCV valve may have nothing to do with boost, but it can be affected by it. Therefore increased boost can damage it.
Crankcase Ventilation
The crankcase is maintained in a constant
vacuum while the engine is running.
The crankcase breather that supplies
this vacuum is connected to the intake
manifold.
The crankcase blow-by gases are separated
in two stages. In the first stage, the
primary oil separator in the oil filter module
takes most of the oil out of the gases. A
second separator in the cylinder head cover
removes the remainder of the oil from the
gases.
Since a turbo engine requires a more
sophisticated pressure control system, a
two-stage pressure control valve is located
on the cylinder head cover. If vacuum exists
in the intake manifold, blow-by gases flow
directly into the intake manifold.
If a boost pressure is present in the intake
manifold, a one-way valve in the pressure
control valve housing closes and the blowby
gases flow into the cylinder head cover
ahead of the turbocharger. The system can
detect faulty installation of the pressure
control valve. Unmetered air is detected by
the reaction of the oxygen sensor.
Where - exactly did that blatant cut, copy and paste come from? Because that categorically is NOT from a Volkswagen Group FSI engine? And there are some serious, and fundamental basic errors with that!
And I will categorically state again, boost pressure has absolutely NOTHING to do with the PCV - nothing! Furthermore, it can NOT be affected by boost either.
But hey, you read and stole the above from some other internet forum, so that then means it must be true! :rolleyes:
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No idea then, you know better than me, but it is all the talk over on the 'other' forum about remapped car's PCV valve's failing
So just 'cause someone on another forum got it wrong, but everyone agreed like a following flock of sheep - then that makes it 'correct' then?! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Which 'other' forum was this?
and what is the best way to upgrade to prevent carbon deposits building up on the valves. :undecided:
Ahhhh, that is a completely different issue - but has nothing to do with remaps or turbo boost - or any other similar 'off-tangent' hair-brain ideas!
Presumably the more power you run the more pressure you have in the crankcase? You tell me as i'm not a technician!! :cool:
Pressure in the crankcase has nothing to do with the turbo boost, nor 'power'. I suggest you go to a library and read some propper textbooks. :smiley:
You seem rather belligerent T_T :sad: for someone whom people are asking your expert opinion about something which appears to be your profession?
Huh - how the fcuk can I be seen as belligerent? Someone asked a question > someone gave an answer > I disagreed with said answer and gave my detailed opinion > someone disagreed with my opinion > so I told them to do some research in a library. :rolleyes:
Hey ho. Are you still breast fed, or have you made it to the bottle of formula milk yet? :rolleyes:
I am not a mechanic/technician/workshop monkey so my above suggestions were purely speculative based on a number of GTi owner's having the same problem with a particular component. Far to co-incidental for me.
Maybe an understandable reply to us mere mortal's about exactly why this could be of no relevance to said problem, would be a little more useful to the topic, rather than shoot anyone down in flames on the basis you have a far superior wealth of knowledge! :nerd:
Sam
But I HAVE given an 'understandable' reply - you disagreed, so I told you to look elsewhere - because it seems that to a few minority on here - no matter what I say, you wont believe me. So go and buy a text book from an academic bookshop - and not some comic from the newsagent or WHSmiths.
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i've not taken one from a mk5 to bits (yet :evil:) but surely it needs a vac feed from the inlet mani to function? or have they used a different method to the 1.8T on the fsi engine?
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toph, the clue is in the actual full meaning of 'PCV' :wink: :smug:
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Just had a quick scout around but couldn't find anything worth posting, but basically would it be fair to say that if the PCV valve is obviously under positive pressure (boost?) then remapping will increase this pressure and lead to premature failure of the diaphagm?
Would that make sense TT?
Sam
Huh - how the fcuk can I be seen as belligerent? Someone asked a question > someone gave an answer > I disagreed with said answer and gave my detailed opinion > someone disagreed with my opinion > so I told them to do some research in a library. :rolleyes:
Hey ho.
That reply in itself say's it all really :huh:
But I HAVE given an 'understandable' reply - you disagreed, so I told you to look elsewhere - because it seems that to a few minority on here - no matter what I say, you wont believe me. So go and buy a text book from an academic bookshop - and not some comic from the newsagent or WHSmiths.
Would you care to direct me to said understandable reply, one with a some context would be great :afro:
Oh and as for Are you still breast fed, or have you made it to the bottle of formula milk yet? :rolleyes:
Still on the good stuff, who ain't?
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83/leftbehindchild/bitty.jpg)
Sam
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toph, the clue is in the actual full meaning of 'PCV' :wink: :smug:
yeah i know what it is, i had one from an audi s3 in bits in my hands most of today :grin: and the pcv check valve is operated by a feed from the inlet manifold.. and pressure in the manifold obviously increases with boost requested from a remap. Just wondered if they worked differently on a mk5!
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toph, the clue is in the actual full meaning of 'PCV' :wink: :smug:
yeah i know what it is, i had one from an audi s3 in bits in my hands most of today :grin: and the pcv check valve is operated by a feed from the inlet manifold.. and pressure in the manifold obviously increases with boost requested from a remap. Just wondered if they worked differently on a mk5!
All flavours of FSI engines, turbo or not, ONLY use positive pressure in the crankcase. That earlier comment about the crankcase working on a vacuum is just pure HS, and nearly had me falling from my high chair! :grin: :grin:
Yes, you are correct that the actual PCV works from the 'inlet manifold', but technically, it is just a pressure 'difference', rather than an out and out vacuum. Because FSI engines generally don't have much of a manifold vacuum, by simple virtue that FSI engines are not 'throttled' in the traditional sense. That is why FSI engines now use a vacuum pump for the brake servo, just like oil burners. :nerd:
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yeah it doesn't need much vac to open the check valve.. but under boost when its closed, is that not where the valve fails? in a similar fashion to the old plastic diaphragms on the dv's?
i wouldn't need to be asking these questions if i could get my etka working again and could see how it all went together :angry: :laugh:
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yeah it doesn't need much vac to open the check valve..
Which valve? There are actually two valves in the PCV unit, one small one which just acts as a bypass for the cyclonesm and the larger diaphragm valve. And there is also a piston in it too, which is operated by pressure, not vac.
but under boost when its closed, is that not where the valve fails? in a similar fashion to the old plastic diaphragms on the dv's?
No, because dispite what the 'big boost numbers boys' will tell you, in the inlet manifold, there isn't actually that much pressure - if there was, engines wouldn't pass emisssions tests, because the charged volume in the combustion chamber would just be pushed out the exhaust valves during the valve overlap phase. (I think? It's getting late, and I'm feeling decidedly dodgy - so I might be talking BS too!)
i wouldn't need to be asking these questions if i could get my etka working again and could see how it all went together :angry: :laugh:
Look in the Mk5 maint + info section, and download the 'self study guide' for the GTI engine - it details how the PCV works. :wink:
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i'd rather just get my hands dirty and investigate it for myself by taking one to bits :grin:
can i borrow your car? :laugh:
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Just had a quick scout around but couldn't find anything worth posting, but basically would it be fair to say that if the PCV valve is obviously under positive pressure (boost?) then remapping will increase this pressure and lead to premature failure of the diaphagm?
Would that make sense TT?
Sam
The PCV valve has NOTHING to do with turbo boost! :rolleyes: It is ONLY the DV which is affected by turbo boost, unless you have modified your engine to work on the two stroke cycle!
The PCV valve may have nothing to do with boost, but it can be affected by it. Therefore increased boost can damage it.
Crankcase Ventilation
The crankcase is maintained in a constant
vacuum while the engine is running.
The crankcase breather that supplies
this vacuum is connected to the intake
manifold.
The crankcase blow-by gases are separated
in two stages. In the first stage, the
primary oil separator in the oil filter module
takes most of the oil out of the gases. A
second separator in the cylinder head cover
removes the remainder of the oil from the
gases.
Since a turbo engine requires a more
sophisticated pressure control system, a
two-stage pressure control valve is located
on the cylinder head cover. If vacuum exists
in the intake manifold, blow-by gases flow
directly into the intake manifold.
If a boost pressure is present in the intake
manifold, a one-way valve in the pressure
control valve housing closes and the blowby
gases flow into the cylinder head cover
ahead of the turbocharger. The system can
detect faulty installation of the pressure
control valve. Unmetered air is detected by
the reaction of the oxygen sensor.
Where - exactly did that blatant cut, copy and paste come from? Because that categorically is NOT from a Volkswagen Group FSI engine? And there are some serious, and fundamental basic errors with that!
And I will categorically state again, boost pressure has absolutely NOTHING to do with the PCV - nothing! Furthermore, it can NOT be affected by boost either.
But hey, you read and stole the above from some other internet forum, so that then means it must be true! :rolleyes:
Didnt say it wasnt a copy and paste.
It was copied and pasted from the 'self study guide' for the GTI engine
Have you read it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Plus YOU got that guide from from the SAME internet forum as I did so it must be true.
Page 8 I think you will find.
Still stand by your
Because that categorically is NOT from a Volkswagen Group FSI engine? And there are some serious, and fundamental basic errors with that!
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/golfgoodies/mk5golfengine.pdf - Self-Study Programme
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:grin:
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Just had a quick scout around but couldn't find anything worth posting, but basically would it be fair to say that if the PCV valve is obviously under positive pressure (boost?) then remapping will increase this pressure and lead to premature failure of the diaphagm?
Would that make sense TT?
Sam
The PCV valve has NOTHING to do with turbo boost! :rolleyes: It is ONLY the DV which is affected by turbo boost, unless you have modified your engine to work on the two stroke cycle!
The PCV valve may have nothing to do with boost, but it can be affected by it. Therefore increased boost can damage it.
Crankcase Ventilation
The crankcase is maintained in a constant
vacuum while the engine is running.
The crankcase breather that supplies
this vacuum is connected to the intake
manifold.
The crankcase blow-by gases are separated
in two stages. In the first stage, the
primary oil separator in the oil filter module
takes most of the oil out of the gases. A
second separator in the cylinder head cover
removes the remainder of the oil from the
gases.
Since a turbo engine requires a more
sophisticated pressure control system, a
two-stage pressure control valve is located
on the cylinder head cover. If vacuum exists
in the intake manifold, blow-by gases flow
directly into the intake manifold.
If a boost pressure is present in the intake
manifold, a one-way valve in the pressure
control valve housing closes and the blowby
gases flow into the cylinder head cover
ahead of the turbocharger. The system can
detect faulty installation of the pressure
control valve. Unmetered air is detected by
the reaction of the oxygen sensor.
Where - exactly did that blatant cut, copy and paste come from? Because that categorically is NOT from a Volkswagen Group FSI engine? And there are some serious, and fundamental basic errors with that!
And I will categorically state again, boost pressure has absolutely NOTHING to do with the PCV - nothing! Furthermore, it can NOT be affected by boost either.
But hey, you read and stole the above from some other internet forum, so that then means it must be true! :rolleyes:
Didnt say it wasnt a copy and paste.
It was copied and pasted from the 'self study guide' for the GTI engine
Have you read it :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Plus YOU got that guide from from the SAME internet forum as I did so it must be true.
Page 8 I think you will find.
Still stand by your
Because that categorically is NOT from a Volkswagen Group FSI engine? And there are some serious, and fundamental basic errors with that!
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/golfgoodies/mk5golfengine.pdf - Self-Study Programme
Yup, I still stand by my claim. Sadly, you seem to be utterly gullible if you honestly think crankcases work on a 'vacuum'. Go and read Hillers. That PDF is simply a 'dummed down' guide for the Yankie audience (whos' intelligence is debatably considerably less than ours).
Here is another mistake from the same said PDF:
High-pressure oil pump drive from a
triple cam on the intake camshaft
I suppose you believe that as 'gospel truth' too! :rolleyes:
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:grin:
What's so funny? Look at my subsequent reply.
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Lol- I'm not the one coming across as a total cock :smiley:
listen T-T, there's no doubting your valuable input into this site but lighten up. Just because there are a great many users who don't have your wealth of knowledge nor experience doesn't excuse the level of arrogance you seem to demonstrating.
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(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/255/PreviewComp/SuperStock_255-3128.jpg)
Just out of interest T_T and I hope you don't mind me asking but, I notice you are retired now? Did you retire early or are you at that age where it come's naturally?
I won't ask how old you are as it's rude! :shocked:
Sam
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Only came here to post the fact every time I see the thread title this is what I think.........
(http://bigpicture.typepad.com/writing/images/idle.jpg)
Always look on the bright side of life............... do do...........
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Well, Im glad this thread was of service. Shes getting VAGed (yes I have just invented a new word) tomorrow so will update tomorrow or Thursday depending on what time I get back from Brands.
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Its the remap go and get your money back!!!! :angry:
Opps! Be reading too much on certian Seat owners forum...lol
Nick
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T-T you told people to go read that Self study to see how the PCV system works. Then you basically say that what VW have written is wrong and your right. Make your mind up.
You will be telling us next that you know more about the Space Shuttle than NASA does.
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Lol- I'm not the one coming across as a total cock :smiley:
Huh - how can I be the one who is a 'cock' when I am actually posting factually correct info! Oh, sorry, because I have shown up two major errors in some yank originated document, then that makes me one?
Seriously, I think you'd best look in the mirror, because you havn't actually inputed anything worthwhile into this thread, apart from taking a cheap jibe . . . hey ho . . . . :rolleyes:
listen T-T, there's no doubting your valuable input into this site but lighten up. Just because there are a great many users who don't have your wealth of knowledge nor experience doesn't excuse the level of arrogance you seem to demonstrating.
So what about the extreme level of arrogance by the certain other poster. I have proven time and time again on this forum - I generally know what the fcuk I am talking about - and on the rare occasion when I do get things wrong, I'm happy to own up.
Maybe instead of getting out your big wooden spoon, go and read Hillers, and then explain how a crankcase can work on a vacuum!!! :rolleyes: :smug:
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T-T you told people to go read that Self study to see how the PCV system works.
Then you basically say that what VW have written is wrong and your right. Make your mind up.
Yup, I did. But then I honestly did NOT expect to find two major and fundamental errors in it. But I have a whole stack of official SSPs, most from Audi AG in Germany - and none of them support what the yankie one states. :smug:
Or do you also think that the oil pump is driven from the inlet camshaft too? :rolleyes:
You will be telling us next that you know more about the Space Shuttle than NASA does.
Erm . . . no! :rolleyes:
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Its the remap go and get your money back!!!! :angry:
Opps! Be reading too much on certian Seat owners forum...lol
Nick
LOL !
Yeah, I was thinking that in the back of my head. Dodgy northerns ;) :D
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Lol- I'm not the one coming across as a total cock :smiley:
Huh - how can I be the one who is a 'cock' when I am actually posting factually correct info! Oh, sorry, because I have shown up two major errors in some yank originated document, then that makes me one?
Seriously, I think you'd best look in the mirror, because you havn't actually inputed anything worthwhile into this thread, apart from taking a cheap jibe . . . hey ho . . . . :rolleyes:
listen T-T, there's no doubting your valuable input into this site but lighten up. Just because there are a great many users who don't have your wealth of knowledge nor experience doesn't excuse the level of arrogance you seem to demonstrating.
So what about the extreme level of arrogance by the certain other poster. I have proven time and time again on this forum - I generally know what the fcuk I am talking about - and on the rare occasion when I do get things wrong, I'm happy to own up.
Maybe instead of getting out your big wooden spoon, go and read Hillers, and then explain how a crankcase can work on a vacuum!!! :rolleyes: :smug:
LOL T-T. :grin: I'm perfectly entitled to input into ANY posting on this forum - it's a public forum.
I'm not actually disputing your knowledge - quite frankly I don't know if you're right or it's total BS. I have limited knowledge in the field of engineering and automotive mechanics - something I had hoped to gain a little from frequenting this forum.
The issue may or may not be regarding the content - I'm not in a position to comment, hence I haven't. BUT I can take issue with the attitude that you have portrayed in this topic.
There is an elevated level of arrogance and intolerance from yourself with a hint of bully-boy tactics akin to that of "I don't care what the official documentation states, I'm still right, and you'd better f'kin believe me!!" - this is the impression being given
I personally haven't witnessed arrogance from anybody else in this thread - I noticed an elevated irritation aimed towards Sambo when the nature of advice was called into question...... this was then reacted to with further "i'm right, everybody else is wrong".....
Feel free to read back the thread - this is how it reads to a 3rd party :smiley:
As for your last childish remark, c'mon mate, act your age.
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Right back on topic. Luckily I have the print off which my VW tech mate gave me when a number of error codes were logged. I had all of them so the PCV valve was changed as a matter of course. This is from 'Elsapro technical service handbook'
Technical product infomation
Erratic idle speed, entry 08583, 04759 or 08825.
Customer statement/ workshop findings
Erratic idle speed. The following entries are logged in the engine control unit.
08583 P2187 bank 1, fuel measuring system too lean at idle speed
04759 P1297 turbocarger- throttle valve connection, pressure loss
08825 P2279 air leaks in intake system
Technical background
Leaking non-return valve in the pressure control valve.
There's also a picture of the PCV which is circled as part of an exploded diagram.
Any use? :smiley:
Like I say this didn't fix my irradic idle, but there was a fair bit of oil in the DV (which was then replaced and fixed the problem, multiple rip's in the rubber diapragm) which apparently is an indication of a knackered PCV valve. My car is an early 54 plate and the PCV I took off had a 2004 date on, so it was replaced with a modified version that VW strted to use later on in production due to the failure rate of the originals like I had.
Sam
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Thanks for posting this up :afro:
Right back on topic. Luckily I have the print off which my VW tech mate gave me when a number of error codes were logged. I had all of them so the PCV valve was changed as a matter of course. This is from 'Elsapro technical service handbook'
Technical product infomation
Erratic idle speed, entry 08583, 04759 or 08825.
Customer statement/ workshop findings
Erratic idle speed. The following entries are logged in the engine control unit.
08583 P2187 bank 1, fuel measuring system too lean at idle speed
04759 P1297 turbocarger- throttle valve connection, pressure loss
08825 P2279 air leaks in intake system
Technical background
Leaking non-return valve in the pressure control valve.
This seems to be the cause of all our arguments. Do I presume correct that Elsa are using the above term 'pressure control valve' for the valve which is bolted to the turbo housing (on the standard 200PS GTI)? And then abbreviating it to 'PCV'? Because the correct technical and 'textbook' term for PCV is actually 'Positive Crankcase Ventilation' - and this is very different to the valve which regulates the turbo boost, and is why I have been quite vherment on this issue (even beligerant, some might say). And on the GTI engine, the 'Positive Crankcase Ventilation' valve is bolted at the top of the engine, on the front face of the black plastic camshaft cover - hidden under the engine cover.
There's also a picture of the PCV which is circled as part of an exploded diagram.
Any use? :smiley:
Can you post the pic here?
Like I say this didn't fix my irradic idle, but there was a fair bit of oil in the DV (which was then replaced and fixed the problem, multiple rip's in the rubber diapragm) which apparently is an indication of a knackered PCV valve.
I fully agree with the oil in the DV, and the torn diaphragm (and this might be a good idea to replace it with the 'piston' valve from the newer TSI engine) - but I'm struggling to see how this can affect the crankcase PCV - because the PCV is basically just a glorified oil separator. When SWMBO next lets me have her GTI, I'll pull off the covers again, and have a proper look at the hose routings and related stuff.
My car is an early 54 plate and the PCV I took off had a 2004 date on, so it was replaced with a modified version that VW strted to use later on in production due to the failure rate of the originals like I had.
So is yours an AXX engine, or the later BWA? And do you happen to know the part number of the item which was replaced? :smiley:
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I can't get the picture onto the computer as I don't have a scanner sorry. The pressure control valve which they talk about is 100% definatly the PCV valve which is also the positive crankcase ventilation valve :undecided:. It clearly shows the the PCV being the black plastic 'strip' which is held onto the rocker cover? under the engine cover by self tapping screws. I changed this part myself so I know the part. My engine code is an AXX as it's early.
As per the VW bulletin, the problem seems to be a failing non return valve in the PCV valve itself. Maybe this is the pressure control valve, so effectively a PCV inside the PCV valve? :laugh:
The part I fitted has the part number 06F129101L. I can possibly get the part number of the part that was replaced tomorrow, depending on wether or not it is still in the garage, or binned!
Sam
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Brought the wrong lead so couldnt get it VAGCOMed :(
Im away for a week or so next week so looks like it will have to wait till when I get back. Its nothing major anyways :)
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Its nothing major anyways :)
(http://www.deskpicture.com/DPs/Miscellaneous/kaboom.jpg)
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lol dammit! Just realised I REALLY shouldnt have said that l :D :D :D
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lol dammit! Just realised I REALLY shouldnt have said that l :D :D :D
not with me around anyways :tongue: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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I can't get the picture onto the computer as I don't have a scanner sorry. The pressure control valve which they talk about is 100% definatly the PCV valve which is also the positive crankcase ventilation valve :undecided:. It clearly shows the the PCV being the black plastic 'strip' which is held onto the rocker cover? under the engine cover by self tapping screws. I changed this part myself so I know the part. My engine code is an AXX as it's early.
As per the VW bulletin, the problem seems to be a failing non return valve in the PCV valve itself. Maybe this is the pressure control valve, so effectively a PCV inside the PCV valve? :laugh:
I think you are spot on. This PCV valve has three separate valves inside it, including the large disc-type diaphragm valve. I havn't had chance to check yet, but something in this assembly must be operated by pressure generated from the turbo, because as mentioned earlier, a crankcase can never run on a vacuum - unless someone has hidden a fookin gert Dyson inside the engine! :laugh:
The part I fitted has the part number 06F129101L. I can possibly get the part number of the part that was replaced tomorrow, depending on wether or not it is still in the garage, or binned!
OK, the last time I looked at mine (cleaned the innards), I noted the part number as '06F 129 101 F' - so they have obviously updated it. Thanks for sharing. :afro:
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The PCV valve has NOTHING to do with turbo boost! :rolleyes: It is ONLY the DV which is affected by turbo boost, unless you have modified your engine to work on the two stroke cycle!
So are we doing a bit of a U turn in opinion T_T? Not saying i'm right, your wrong or anything childish, but your opinion towards the way this component operates seems to have changed.
Genuinely interested to hear of exactly how this works as it has raised heated discussions on 2 forums now and most people just like to know about the facts.:afro:
Cheers, Sam
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The PCV valve has NOTHING to do with turbo boost! :rolleyes: It is ONLY the DV which is affected by turbo boost, unless you have modified your engine to work on the two stroke cycle!
So are we doing a bit of a U turn in opinion T_T?
Not at all. The actual 'boost' is still controled by the divert valve or recirc valve (or what ever VW are calling it this month).
And until I can actually have a real nosey, I'm gonna sit on the fence. Though I do now accept that it seems as though the PCV is plumbed in to react to the turbo boost.
And I categorically will not be changed by the bollox in that yankie engine guide - because anyone who is anyone regarding engines, will vhermently tell you that crankcases NEVER work on a vacuum. Just like the oil pump is NOT driven from the camshaft, as it claims.
Not saying i'm right, your wrong or anything childish, but your opinion towards the way this component operates seems to have changed.
I certainly don't have any 'hangup' about changing my opinion. But I do need to work on engineering facts. Because I'm sure we all need no reminding that the Yanks systematically come out with BS . . . .
Genuinely interested to hear of exactly how this works as it has raised heated discussions on 2 forums now and most people just like to know about the facts.
Huh, TWO forums? Linky please. :huh:
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Don't think you need a link to the other forum, your in it! :grin: re: catch can's and there purpose/use. Admittidly it is a slightly differant discussion but it involves the same component.
Like what has been said earlier, your knowledge is very valuble to forums like this. It is not a matter of who is right or who got it wrong. My input to this topic was based on info I had picked up from having a similar problem and trying to find an answer. I am by no means experienced enough to be able to comment on technical details, just come to a conclusion using the various drib's and drabs of info out there on the net and available to me via a friend who is a master tech at Vdub.
Hopefully we/you can find a definative answer to this failing PCV valve issue (which VW have tried to combat with this updated part) and find the best solution to the problem it causes. This may just be fitting said updated part, or the use of a catch can or something completely differant. :undecided:
Presumably the PCV valve only allows deposit's to build up on the valve stems etc if it has failed? Or is there a fundimental issue with the design (current or updated version) which allows this process to take place? If the later then I can understand why people are looking at using a catch can set up.
I may be seeing my VW mate later tonight anyway, so will ask for his opinion on the matter if I remember! :smiley:
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I believe its the one way valve in the 'front' PCV that fails and leaks boost pass it. The signs of this is a slight loss in boost and oil being blown out of your oil filler cap due to boost pressure not being stopped by the one way/non return valve. The crankcase vents through the 'front' PCV and 'rear' PCV when no boost is present and only the 'rear' PCV when there is. I am sure it is more complicated than that but you get the basic idea. This is the reason I have had my catch can on for over a year now was to remove altogether the 'front' PCV and therefore not having to worry about the failing one way/non return valve.
Technically the crankcase still vents out of the 'front' but through the catchcan then back into the PCV system for the 'rear' PCV to deal with. So now the PCV system is not directly connected to the inlet manifold.
I stand to be corrected though.
Oh and the catchcan has the added benefit of LESS deposits on the valve stems. Whether the fsi engine needs it, that is still under discussion, but certainly doesn't make it any worse.