GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk1 => Topic started by: deanpompey on 19 August 2009, 19:14
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ok so i am binning off the 1.8 carb'd lump currently in my clipper cab, and replacing it with a 2L 16v 9a lump from a 'rado.
gona make a start this weekend coming so just wanted to make sure i have everything i need and all info i need before i start.
so i am planning on using:
9a complete engine.
9a manifold matched to 8v mk1 downpipe
mk1 starter
9a alternator
mk1 coil
mk1 020 gearbox and clutch
so, i know i need to tap the rh engine mount hole in the block to take the mount, then all mounts just line up an bolt on right?
can i use water and oil temp senders off mk1 8v and splice them into the 9a loom?
what fuel pump do i need to fit and how do i go about doing it?
anything else anyone can think of??
cheers guys
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this was going to be a vr6 last week
take 9A sit the 1.8 carb motor bt it. and swap sh!t failry self explanatory when there out on the deck
you'll be swaping, mounts ( some slight adjustment needed iirc) flywheel, clutch gearbox, starter. pullys and stuff depepnd on whitch ones had pas. you'll most likely be swaping som pullys over off the carbed enigne.
why would you splice the mk1 senders in, the 9a ones will work
fuelpump depends on fuel system most likely you'll want a k jet pump and in tank pump.
for the price of it just buy a hottuning manifold to sort the exhaust.
oh yes as for other stuff to make it a cute uinstall you need to cut and weld the intake manifold one or get a rocco one
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vr6 idea was binned, gonna vr T a mk2 next year much better base.
anyhow, the mani/downpipe bodge is temporary til i get back off holiday and catch up £££ wise, needs to be on the road in 3 weeks so i can bin off paying out to store it.
mk1 senders i wanted to splice in as the 9a ones arent there! lol shouldve made that clearer.
and what do you mean i need to cut and weld intake mani? as in shorten it? dont care about cute, just want if to fit and run!
cheers
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you've lost me then. thers a hole bunch of sender on a carb engine a 16v dosent have but there not needed. the 16v has all the sensors required they just look diffrent
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mk1 engine bay the airbox should go on the other side to where it is in a mk2, dont have to but its the right way
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ah i get ya. well il sort that when i get time, but for now like i said i just want it in and running!
the 9a loom doesnt have the senders because they were cut off it by prev owner, hence why i needf to splice the 8v ones in!
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Getting it fitted like a scirocco 16v will take lots of time & money, since the required parts are very hard to come by. its not just the intake its also the airbox & fuel lines that need sourcing, all the pipework etc. you can bodge it using MK1 bits but that would defeat the point tbh.
The only mk1 sensors you can use from the old block are the coolant temp & oil pressure, non of the others will have any use on a 16v.
the enghine itself will drop right in usign the mounts swapped over from the old engine, and the old gearbox + flywheel. fit a new sachs mk2 gti clutch kit tho. If you want to use the 16v gearbox check the size of your driveshafts, if 90mm you need to swap your old box flanges over or fit 100mm shafts from a later cabby/scirocco.
what management are you planning to use on it? if kr all you need is a single pin black collar temp sensor for the ign controller, these can be found on many VAG cars, MK2 16v, MK1s, MK3 ABF etc. Same sensor as you need to use for the dash temp gauge basically. GSF sell em but I'm unsure of the quality of them. If you're going for the 9a managemnt, you need to get a lambdfa fitting in the downpipe, and buy a new ecu temp sensor from VAG. You'll also have a bit of wire splicing to do.
if you are going with the MK2/9a managment you need a MK1 GTI fuel pump, accumulator and lines. You wil lalso either need to swap the fuel tank for a MK1 GTI item, or drop in a later cabby/scirocco injection in-tank pump plus under car reservoir. Crazyquiff does 16v conversion pipes off the shelf, but a little pricy. Oh and you'll want MK1 metering head feed/return pipes plus the fuel filter bracket that fits to the front of the metering head.
If you want to run the MK2 16v isv controller ideally you want an early MK2 16v airbox as that will have all the correct connections on it for the over-run valve and the breather, if not you can use a MK1 airbox but fit the 16v metering head onto it. The late 16v airbox is too wide to fit on the driver side chassis leg.
you'll probably find you dont have much clearance for the dizzy, what you can do is fit an ABF dizzy cap and rotate the 9a dizzy 180 degrees, moving the leads round to suit. you'll need to use the 8v king lead though, or make your own as the 16v item isnt long enough.
Last of all the exhaust. You need to either buy an off-the shelf conversion manifold, or fabricate your own downpipe. the MK1 item wont bolt to the 16v manifold. You need to use the top half of the 16v downpipe welded to the bottom of the MK1 downpie, and some jiggery in between, like this:
(http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/mk1-16v1.jpg)
(http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/mk1-16v2.jpg)
With a bit of carefull thought and some effort you can fit the 16v so it looks liek it was there from the factory:
(http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/cabby36.jpg)
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhh! lol im kinda confused by bits of that, but heres where i am:
sensors - they are the two i need so thats all good
mounts, thats what i thought.
gearbox - all good, has brand new sachs clutch in there too :)
as for management, im using the ecu that comes with the engine?im assuming thats original 9a stuff.
fuel pump wise can i not just use any intank pump?was under impression all i needed was the in tank pump and would run?
as for isv i hadnt even thought about that, will have to find out if i have one comin gon the engine!
dizzy i will sort when i get there, and downpipe is basically what i was planning on doing, except i have a full 4 branch stainless manifold into downpipe on the 8v lump, so was going to have the two manifolds cut and welded together if that was possible? havent even looked at the new engine yet so havent got a clue!
aargh! there will be many questions coming your way im sure!
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ok so management wont be an issue now.... have just bought a set of twin 40's..... :smiley:
few more question though, will an abf inlet mani fit a 9a? or will i need another? and what fuel pump set up will i need for 40's?
need to find a linkage kit too.
will prob run stock management for now, so actually if you can help me with that would be appreciated!
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ABF manifold fit 9A ( all 16v manifolds will fit all 16v enignes )
the webbers wil want a facet pump, and ether a pressure reg of just a T' off the fuel line to them and loop the feed back to the return with a bit of a restriction, so you get 3-4 psi at the carbs
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wahey! so now all i need to do is find a facet pump, regulator, and linkage kit an il be away!
cheers!
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this the kind of thing i need?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160356462605&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_500wt_1182
is 3 / 4 psi the ideal pressure? have seen some red top facet punps that run 6 / 7 psi, would there be any benefits/negatives in running higher psi?
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If you run too much pressure, the valve in the float chambre of the carbs may be over powered and you will end up constantly flooding the engine,
Too little pressure means when you give it the berries, it'll run outa juice and slow down/stop (or it could go really really wrong, run lean, get hot and seize - that would be bad)
So stay with what the others have told you.
Have fun
kraM
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to answer your 9a questions, you have to use the gti pump as the 9a managment is still based on k-jet, so needs a proper k-jet pump & pipework. all the isv wiring etc is all contained within the 9a wiring, so just a case of stripping it and splicing it to the mk1 fusebox. Not as scary as it sounds, once you strip out everything that isnt connected to the ECU there isnt much left to worry about! use as mich of the mk1 engine loom as you can, i.e. sensors etc, just bin any carby specific bits, then combine the 2.
if you were planning on using the abf inlet to run on 9a managment that wont work, but if you mean you had a abf inlet modified for carbs then thats fine :)
when you go for the webbers you'll need either a KR ignition control unit and loom to do the ignition on the 9a dizzy, swap on a vacuum advance dizzy from a 1.3 MK2 or I think a pug 1.9GTI one works quite well, or go for aftermarket ignition managment of some kind.
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ok so can i use the 9a dizzy so long as i get a kr ignition control module?is that what your saying? lol
im gonna be running twin 40's so not worried bout kr fuel pump etc.
gonna buy a red top facet fuel pump and reduce the pressure to 4 psi via the regultor, have been told its better to have more in reserve than to max out at full whack and start pinking etc, makes sense so il go with it!
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yep thats right, just if you went for basic tci+coil ignition you would need a vaccuum dizzy to do the ignition advance.
also in a MK1 shell the dizzy cap often hits the brake MC/reservoir so you can use an ABF one and rotate the dizzy 180degrees toi give you a ton of clearance :)