GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Paul86S2 on 24 July 2009, 21:11
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After the 8v 16v Vr6 debate I would be interested in anyones recommendations about tuning the VR6 motor. A couple of people have said it was de-tuned from the factory for fuel economy.
I know about air box, exhaust, etc etc but what about bolt on items like cams, inlet manifolds, chips, etc.
Interested in how much extra power per item and approx costs.
Not really interested in turbo's or superchargers.
It would seem that with head work, cams, remap, etc you can get a 16v to just below 200 bhp, but to crack the 200 mark you will need stand alone management and individual throttle bodies. To get to the just below 200 bhp power mark on a 16v I would have thought it would cost about £1000 for parts and to crack the 200 bhp mark I would have thought the best part of another £1000.
So do I carry on investing in the ABF or will it be cheaper to go VR6 and modifications and let the extra power compensate for the extra weight and slower cornering speed.
Cheers
Paul
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I don't think head work with cams plus remap will see nearly 200bhp I would say closer to 180bhp.
Only you can make the choice, Vr6 has a lot more torque. :undecided:
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The sound :lipsrsealed:
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I'm going to stick with my 16v. the way I see it is that, I already have a 16v so don't need to buy a vr6 and everything that goes with it to do the convertion. That money there, that would go on to buy a vr6 will just go towards the 16v and then what ever money you was going to spend on the vr6 will go towards the 16v too.
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Ess_three has a 16v and looks to be getting high BHP without a TC or SC.
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186393&highlight=abf+tuning
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Ess-three has done a hell of lot of work on his motor, including head work.
The 16v is a good motor if you spend that much money on it.
On a vr you'll easily break the 200bhp mark with a filter, exhaust, chip and cams. Infact you'll get close to 200bhp without doing the cams.
Also torque on the vr is far higher as Wayne already pointed out.
Put in simple terms, the car will accelerate much faster at lower rpm's than the 16v.
This will make a 0-60 sprint much faster, even more so if a VSR is added.
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Ess_three has a 16v and looks to be getting high BHP without a TC or SC.
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186393&highlight=abf+tuning
Yes this is where the nearly 200bhp figure comes from.
He has performance inlet cam, standard exhaust cam, ported and polished head, with matched inlet and exhaust. Along with the other stuff like exhaust, modified airbox, throttle body remap etc. He has shown a 46 ish bhp increase and torque of 160 lb/ft torque.
What I really want to know is if it is cheaper to get better results from the VR6. If it is I will consider the swop, how hard is it to gt 240 to 250 bhp from the VR6, or am I dreaming without boosting it.
What will a similar level of modification give on a VR6, and what are the costs.
Manifold, cams, headwork, remap, how much for how much gain.
Cheers
Paul
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VSR - whats that.
Paul
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I don't think head work with cams plus remap will see nearly 200bhp I would say closer to 180bhp.
Only you can make the choice, Vr6 has a lot more torque. :undecided:
Depends on whether it's OBD1 or OBD2
The OBD2 never had a set bhp from the factory. A standard one that has been well looked after could put out anything between 185-195bhp
I'd personally smooth the inside of the airbox and chuck a pipercross panel filter in there, fit a Jetex stainless steel exhaust, sports cat, and stainless steel manifold.
Can't you tell I spend a lot of time on the VR6 owners club forum haha.
Love driving VR's, they're insanely quick compared to my 75bhp 1.6 lol.
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VSR - whats that.
Paul
Variable Inlet Manifold. The manifold varies the length of inlet tracts to boost low end torque.
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Ess_three has a 16v and looks to be getting high BHP without a TC or SC.
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186393&highlight=abf+tuning
Yes this is where the nearly 200bhp figure comes from.
He has performance inlet cam, standard exhaust cam, ported and polished head, with matched inlet and exhaust. Along with the other stuff like exhaust, modified airbox, throttle body remap etc. He has shown a 46 ish bhp increase and torque of 160 lb/ft torque.
What I really want to know is if it is cheaper to get better results from the VR6. If it is I will consider the swop, how hard is it to gt 240 to 250 bhp from the VR6, or am I dreaming without boosting it.
What will a similar level of modification give on a VR6, and what are the costs.
Manifold, cams, headwork, remap, how much for how much gain.
Cheers
Paul
The vr i used to own was an OBDI. It had filter, jetex exhaust, remap, and it was running 190-195bhp.
I got the exhaust second hand, i got the chip second hand too, my father-in-law soldered a socket to my ECU, so i could interchange the chips myself.
I would say 220bhp+ would be easily achievable on an OBDII, with the above work and a good set of cams.
The VSR won't add any bhp, it just drastically increases low end torque, like a real V6.
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The info on that thread! I will be reading that many times lol
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The info on that thread! I will be reading that many times lol
Yes Glen has put a lot of time and research into the mods on his 16v and backed the modifications up with RR results, dumping the rubbish ones and keeping the good stuff.
It will be interesting to see the results he gets with his ITB's and revised cam work.
Paul
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Variable Inlet Manifold. The manifold varies the length of inlet tracts to boost low end torque.
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Is this the item made by Schrick (spelling)
Will look at these figures and analise the BHP to Weight ratio of both cars. And then look some more into the costs involved.
I'll post up an analysis of costs when I've worked them out.
Thanks for the info.
Paul
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Yes, the variable inlet manifold is made by schrick.
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Yes, the variable inlet manifold is made by shrick.
Was very expensive new but makes one hell of a difference.
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My old vr made 191.4 bhp at Awesome last year, that was with a 6 branch manifold, induction kit, decat and stainless exhaust. Would deffo say that 200bhp could have been achieved with a remap.
I'd say that spending £1500 on your vr would get you 220-230bhp with bucket loads of torque.
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Just my 2p's worth - any VR6 will need a small refinery to fuel it, especially if you like the loud pedal :evil:
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Just my 2p's worth - any VR6 will need a small refinery to fuel it, especially if you like the loud pedal :evil:
A heavily tuned 16v will also drink fuel :rolleyes:
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Just my 2p's worth - any VR6 will need a small refinery to fuel it, especially if you like the loud pedal :evil:
A heavily tuned 16v will also drink fuel :rolleyes:
If a 16v and a vr had the same bhp the vr will always drink more fuel.
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Just my 2p's worth - any VR6 will need a small refinery to fuel it, especially if you like the loud pedal :evil:
A heavily tuned 16v will also drink fuel :rolleyes:
If a 16v and a vr had the same bhp the vr will always drink more fuel.
Not necessarily. A tuned up 16v which matches the standard vr will probably be just as thirsty.
I was pointing out that any heavily tuned engine will drink fuel.
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Just my 2p's worth - any VR6 will need a small refinery to fuel it, especially if you like the loud pedal :evil:
A heavily tuned 16v will also drink fuel :rolleyes:
If a 16v and a vr had the same bhp the vr will always drink more fuel.
Not really, the VR has a lot more torque so will sit in higher gears whilst the 16V will be screaming along, don't think their will be much in it to be honest.
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Also, to add, state of tune has alot to do with fuel consumption.
Engines are set up to run close to lambda, or in other words perfect fuel/air mixture.
This however can be set 10% either way of lambda from factory. I most cases from factory, engines can be set on the lean side, to keep fuel consumption and emissions down.
A re-map will obviously change this.
Other factors will affect fuel consumption, how well the engine 'flows' ie. filter and exhaust, and longer duration cams.
Bigger capacity does usually mean more fuel consumed. but its not always the case.