GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: adw555 on 15 July 2009, 14:18
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This month's edition has a Hot hatch Super Test ..
New GTI comes in first....just pips Focus RS :smiley:
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Got any more info from it ? little snippets, or quotes etc ?
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Oooh, must find newsagent, must buy!! :cool:
Rolfe.
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sorry...just noticed it on the way out of Sainsburys at lunchtime....queue was too long at the time to buy it...so just had a quick glance at the last page...will get it on the way home.
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No surprise there then
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Wow this could be one of those rare occasions I buy what car. I always thought of this as a consumer mag rather than an enthusiasts mag. Maybe its a sign of getting older that the car I want is a what car fave!
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I don't think I've bought a copy since I used it to choose the Peugeot, in 1997!
I was going to buy it again this time, because I found it useful just to run my finger down the column of a particular spec and pick out those cars that fitted the bill - that way I knew I'd got the lot and hadn't missed an obscure possibility. Well, OK, it was the 0-60 rating I was running my finger down. That's how I got the short list, the Peugeot and the Golf GTi (don't know which model it would have been in 1997).
I thought actually that there might be a web site that would let you enter your basic requirements (body style, number of doors, lower MPG limit, upper 0-60 limit or whatever), then present you with a list of cars fitting these specs, but I couldn't find anything. Maybe I missed something?
So I was going to buy What Car and start running my fingers down columns again. But then I got seduced by the Golf, and decided, this time you're having it!
Quite fancy buying it if it's going to confirm my prejudices though!
Rolfe.
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I'll pick it up too.
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Wonder how much VW slipped the road testers........? :grin:
Not that I'm cynical or anything!
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You think Ford wouldn't stoop to that? :rolleyes:
Rolfe.
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VW must have offered more!
On a tangent from that though, as long as the GTI is winning press plaudits it can't but help increase the desireability of the car which in turn will help re-sale prices no end. Same happened with the mk5.
Maybe not so good for people like me who would rather buy an ex-demo than a new car (for purely financial reasons!) as the order books will be full and the things will be flying off the shelves.
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Quote "We'll be honest here the vote almost went to the Focus RS. How can you resisit a car that puts down 300bhp so effortlessly, that provides supercar performance for £25,000 or thereabouts and that retains a regular focus's practicality? Then again, how can you resist a car that does eveything you want of a hot hatch one minute yet has the dignity and the gravitas to pass as a busines car the next, and that's built as though its creators' lives depended on it? The thing about the Golf GTI is that you can use it anywhere for anything. We're not sure that's the case with the Focus RS"
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Quote "We'll be honest here the vote almost went to the Focus RS. How can you resisit a car that puts down 300bhp so effortlessly, that provides supercar performance for £25,000 or thereabouts and that retains a regular focus's practicality? Then again, how can you resist a car that does eveything you want of a hot hatch one minute yet has the dignity and the gravitas to pass as a busines car the next, and that's built as though its creators' lives depended on it? The thing about the Golf GTI is that you can use it anywhere for anything. We're not sure that's the case with the Focus RS"
Just about sums it up. Not to mention that for about an additional £1k you too can probably put 300bhp though your front wheels.. without looking like a t1t the rest of the time :lipsrsealed: :grin:
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It was a slightly strange summing-up for the Golf, as at least 50% of the text was about the Focus! Still, I agree with them. The RS is a monster, a cop magnet, and altogether way too much. Horses for courses, but I wouldn't have wanted anything quite that blatant.
It's a shame they didn't factor in the Focus ST, which is more comparable to the Golf. It's relatively restrained to look at while being in the same general power bracket and so on. Still, they couldn't test everything.
What else did they miss out? What else would you have liked to see in that lineup?
Rolfe.
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There was quite a few cars that were missing, S3, Seat Leon etc.... instead they had a Renault twingo.
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There was quite a few cars that were missing, S3, Seat Leon etc.... instead they had a Renault twingo.
A Renault Twingo in the same class as the GTI? hmmmm its like comparing Bette Midler and Beyonce...
WTF?
HM
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There was quite a few cars that were missing, S3, Seat Leon etc.... instead they had a Renault twingo.
The S3 and Seat were there... They just had their VW Golf dress on that day!! :grin:
I know what your saying though but I guess there are only so many cars they could have in the test. I read it and thought it summed up the Golf about right. I think I would enjoy the Focus for a weekend but then it would start to grate on me after a while.
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Grabbed it on the way home, read on the train and was disappointed it was such a short review. I still prefer the longer write ups from Car, Evo, Performance Car etc.
Notice how many white cars there were? White is the "in" colour right now!
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There was quite a few cars that were missing, S3, Seat Leon etc.... instead they had a Renault twingo.
Maybe they were considered but didnt make the top 10.
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Good to hear the Golf won.
I just love What Car, it's so British, so 'nice', as if it were published by Marks & Spencers :) Still going to get a copy when I come back to England on Sunday :)
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Hey, quite apart from the group test, take a look at page 84. What Car? best buys for August 2009. The "sports cars" category.
1st - Nissan GT-R, price £56,800
2nd - Ferrari 430 Scuderia, price £168,962
3rd - VW Golf GTi 3-door, price £22,415
There is absolutely no indication of what the other contenders were, or how that decision was arrived at, but not bad, what?
Rolfe.
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Finishing just behind a Ferrari that costs 8 times as much is fantastic :)
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Simply is, the mk6 is the best hot hatch in the world right now.
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I wouldn't actually have thought of the Golf GTi as a "sports car". I tend to think of sports cars as low-slung two-seaters, probably with an open top.
What would be the correct definition, and what other cars would qualify? It seeme to me the Golf must have beaten the Focus RS in that category too.
(I still wish they'd included the Focus ST in the hot hatch group test. It's the version of the Focus that doesn't have the drawbacks they penalised the RS for.)
Rolfe.
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What size are the tyres on the Monza Shadows. In What Car they give the size as 225/45 18, and I have just checked the Monzas on my MK5 and they are 225/40 18.
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shadow's 225/40/18, the standard monza's are 225/45/17
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How come my GTI with the poorly rated 225 Dunlops goes around corners better than the my scirocco with 235 P zero rosso's?
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How come my GTI with the poorly rated 225 Dunlops goes around corners better than the my scirocco with 235 P zero rosso's?
Can only imagine it's the GTI's XDS coming into play ? Don't think the Scirocco has that ?
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Coz the GTI kicks ass!!!
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Coz the GTI kicks ass!!!
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sizmik/laugh.gif)
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Another little touch I liked in that review was what looked like an "honourable mention" for the Peugeot 306 GTi-6 (page 49, in the middle of the review of the 207 GTi).
Ah, great car.... :cry:
Rolfe.
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Horses for courses, but I wouldn't have wanted anything quite that blatant.
Agreed, but is that not why we all own nice subtle VW's instead of garish orange Fords...? :laugh:
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Well, that was sort of the point I was getting to. The Focus that better compares with the Golf GTi is the ST, not the RS. The ST performs fairly close to the GTi, and like the GTi it can look more or less like a standard Focus to the uninitiated. You don't have to have it in orange!
Since the point that the RS was marked down on was exactly that, looking like a complete chav, it would have been interesting to see how the ST measured up against the same criteria. I suppose they couldn't really include two different Focus models in the test though, and everyone would expect the RS to be there.
Rolfe.
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Well, that was sort of the point I was getting to. The Focus that better compares with the Golf GTi is the ST, not the RS. The ST performs fairly close to the GTi, and like the GTi it can look more or less like a standard Focus to the uninitiated. You don't have to have it in orange!
Since the point that the RS was marked down on was exactly that, looking like a complete chav, it would have been interesting to see how the ST measured up against the same criteria. I suppose they couldn't really include two different Focus models in the test though, and everyone would expect the RS to be there.
Rolfe.
Why can't you compare the RS to the GTI, only the ST ?
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Well you could compare the RS with the Golf easily enough as they cost about the same but they are aimed at slightly different buyers really.
I won't stereotype but you know what I mean.
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Unless I'm mistaken, it seems there are a lot of people out there that think because car A is faster therefore car A is better. If we all wanted fast cars then we'd buy an affordable car like an Evo and remap it to the moon.
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Unless I'm mistaken, it seems there are a lot of people out there that think because car A is faster therefore car A is better. If we all wanted fast cars then we'd buy an affordable car like an Evo and remap it to the moon.
Agreed - it's intangibles you're talking about, not the top trumps attitude some folk seem to have to cars.
The GTi's have them in spades.
Well you could compare the RS with the Golf easily enough as they cost about the same but they are aimed at slightly different buyers really.
I won't stereotype but you know what I mean.
You are, but stereotypes are true for a reason. :laugh:
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And that's why the GTI has always been so popular. It's decently quick (not mk3 or 2.0 mk4), comfy, understated and acceptable anywhere.
As the Stella adverts said, ''reassuringly expensive''!!!
Horses for courses and all that, but the GTI is a multi-tasker, won't win many races but will probably have the highest average.
I think the fairest comparison would be against a Leon FR which shares most of the mechanicals and much underpinnings. The Leon is well over two grand cheaper, maybe nearer four now and yet the GTI will outsell the FR many times over (at least in the UK) which either means we are all snobs or VW are getting the blend just about right (apart from the slightly silly high price).
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Why can't you compare the RS to the GTI, only the ST ?
Of course you can compare the RS to the GTi, that's exactly what the What Car? test did. The RS lost by a whisker, apparently on the grounds that is wasn't as versatile - that it looked like a boy racer's car that you wouldn't want to drive up to a five-star hotel in. However, the ST isn't nearly so chavvy as the RS, so arguably might stack up better against the GTi if this is going to be your dealbreaker criterion.
I just thought it would have been interesting to see the GTi and the ST compared. That was the choice I was looking at making - I would never have considered the RS. However, they obviously weren't going to include two Focus models in the test, and the RS was the obvious model to include.
Rolfe.
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Why can't you compare the RS to the GTI, only the ST ?
Of course you can compare the RS to the GTi, that's exactly what the What Car? test did. The RS lost by a whisker, apparently on the grounds that is wasn't as versatile - that it looked like a boy racer's car that you wouldn't want to drive up to a five-star hotel in. However, the ST isn't nearly so chavvy as the RS, so arguably might stack up better against the GTi if this is going to be your dealbreaker criterion.
I just thought it would have been interesting to see the GTi and the ST compared. That was the choice I was looking at making - I would never have considered the RS. However, they obviously weren't going to include two Focus models in the test, and the RS was the obvious model to include.
Rolfe.
The ST vs GTI was done to death with the mk5 GTI. I guess the mags are jumping on the RS as it's the new one and the GTI is billed as being new too and, as said, ££££ wise they're similar. The mags generally go for road tests of the latest model as that's what their readers want. Next year it will be the next VXR vs the GTI, the following year the next Type R vs the GTI. The GTI is normally regarded as the benchmark as the allrounder and that's always the 'one to beat'. For the last 30 odd years every couple of months the mags headlines scream ''This is the car that steals the GTI's crown''. How many times has the Golf GTI lost its crown?
And while we are at it, I can't see myself pulling up outside a 5 star hotel in a GTI either, Travelodge maybe.... :smiley:
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Why can't you compare the RS to the GTI, only the ST ?
Of course you can compare the RS to the GTi, that's exactly what the What Car? test did. The RS lost by a whisker, apparently on the grounds that is wasn't as versatile - that it looked like a boy racer's car that you wouldn't want to drive up to a five-star hotel in. However, the ST isn't nearly so chavvy as the RS, so arguably might stack up better against the GTi if this is going to be your dealbreaker criterion.
I just thought it would have been interesting to see the GTi and the ST compared. That was the choice I was looking at making - I would never have considered the RS. However, they obviously weren't going to include two Focus models in the test, and the RS was the obvious model to include.
Rolfe.
Well you said the ST is better to compare to the GTI not the RS. And now you say of course you can compare the RS, so why say that in the first place ?. Ragardless of wither the RS is chavvy or not, its very much comparable. I think speed came into you're way of thinking, just like it does with so many others that think speed = better.
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Why can't you compare the RS to the GTI, only the ST ?
Of course you can compare the RS to the GTi, that's exactly what the What Car? test did. The RS lost by a whisker, apparently on the grounds that is wasn't as versatile - that it looked like a boy racer's car that you wouldn't want to drive up to a five-star hotel in. However, the ST isn't nearly so chavvy as the RS, so arguably might stack up better against the GTi if this is going to be your dealbreaker criterion.
I just thought it would have been interesting to see the GTi and the ST compared. That was the choice I was looking at making - I would never have considered the RS. However, they obviously weren't going to include two Focus models in the test, and the RS was the obvious model to include.
Rolfe.
The ST vs GTI was done to death with the mk5 GTI. I guess the mags are jumping on the RS as it's the new one and the GTI is billed as being new too and, as said, ££££ wise they're similar. The mags generally go for road tests of the latest model as that's what their readers want. Next year it will be the next VXR vs the GTI, the following year the next Type R vs the GTI. The GTI is normally regarded as the benchmark as the allrounder and that's always the 'one to beat'. For the last 30 odd years every couple of months the mags headlines scream ''This is the car that steals the GTI's crown''. How many times has the Golf GTI lost its crown?
And while we are at it, I can't see myself pulling up outside a 5 star hotel in a GTI either, Travelodge maybe.... :smiley:
:grin: I hear ya !
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Can anyone either find this on the web, or - even better - a wee scan of the review? :undecided:
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I think you have to be very careful with putting up scanned images due to copyright laws, we wouldn't want topher gitting in the crap would we?
Not seen the test myself either but am willing to part with £4 next time I'm in a newsagent.
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Wasn't really worth it imo. Wander down to the library, sorry I mean Smiths, and spend 2 mins reading.
Lacked substance and enjoyment.... apart from finding out the result :)
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The ST vs GTI was done to death with the mk5 GTI. I guess the mags are jumping on the RS as it's the new one and the GTI is billed as being new too and, as said, ££££ wise they're similar. The mags generally go for road tests of the latest model as that's what their readers want. Next year it will be the next VXR vs the GTI, the following year the next Type R vs the GTI. The GTI is normally regarded as the benchmark as the allrounder and that's always the 'one to beat'. For the last 30 odd years every couple of months the mags headlines scream ''This is the car that steals the GTI's crown''. How many times has the Golf GTI lost its crown?
And while we are at it, I can't see myself pulling up outside a 5 star hotel in a GTI either, Travelodge maybe.... :smiley:
You are quite right, of course. I'm suffering from not having looked at these things until I decided to change my car. (Maybe if I'd been buying the mags regularly, I'd have traded in the Peugeot years ago....)
Rolfe.
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one for Rolfe - in the Autocar full review they rank the GTI first amongst its peers, above the Focus ST and Leon FR. They quote that the ST is more a GT than a hot hatch (though the same could be said of the Golf I reckon) and also cite higher running costs. The FR has the same engine and near enough performance but was "less polished", though excellent refinement and poise AND 4k cheaper! (looks ugly IMO though)
Personally I reckon the Golf is likely to have the greatest longevity. I'm not particularly keen on changing cars too often, so the Golf is perfect as I think it won't date as quickly as the focus or leon. It's like a little 3-series BMW really, hence I'm willing to pay a bit more.
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looks ugly IMO though
Agreed, and - more crucially - cheap & nasty.
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Well, I never got close to one as the dealer I went to first didn't have even a brochure never mind an actual car. I was recommended to go to another dealer, but by that time I'd had a sniff of the Golf so I didn't bother.
What I still don't understand is why the Top Gear reviews of both cars specifically state that the Focus ST is more economical to run than the Golf. It was the better fuel economy of the Golf that first made me sit up and take notice, and it's in a lower road tax bracket. Anybody know where Top Gear are getting their rating from?
Rolfe.
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Well, I never got close to one as the dealer I went to first didn't have even a brochure never mind an actual car. I was recommended to go to another dealer, but by that time I'd had a sniff of the Golf so I didn't bother.
What I still don't understand is why the Top Gear reviews of both cars specifically state that the Focus ST is more economical to run than the Golf. It was the better fuel economy of the Golf that first made me sit up and take notice, and it's in a lower road tax bracket. Anybody know where Top Gear are getting their rating from?
Rolfe.
from their derriere? :p
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You are quite right, of course. I'm suffering from not having looked at these things until I decided to change my car. (Maybe if I'd been buying the mags regularly, I'd have traded in the Peugeot years ago....)
Rolfe.[/quote]
Rolfe, interesting review of your Peugeot... not bad compared to the the GTI of the day. Jeremy Clarkson was funny then and still funny today...
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqgJ5vQkWGc
Cheers, HM
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Rolfe, interesting review of your Peugeot... not bad compared to the the GTI of the day. Jeremy Clarkson was funny then and still funny today...
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqgJ5vQkWGc
Cheers, HM
Aw, my baby!!! The car Clarkson's driving is even the same colour.
So, it wiped the floor with the Golf of the day (Mk III I would think) on just about everything, and yet he chose the Golf because the Peugeot didn't come in a 5-door version. Oh, and he went on and on about the size of the Golf's luggage capacity, when I know for a fact the Peugeot is actually slightly bigger in that respect - sometimes I think it has a small dimensional warp inside it. Well, I wanted a 3-door in the first place. And the Peugeot takes my actual bicycle, and the tailgate shuts, or my mother's wheelchair with the back seat up. The damn thing has taken half of Ikea in its day.
Thank you for reminding me why I bought that car, way back in '98.
It was a real cracker.
Rolfe.
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Double post, sorry.
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A mate of mine had a black GTI-6, cracking car. The Golf in question was a mk4 and very different to the Peugeot. I had a black one the same time as my mate had his 306. My GTI was re-mapped so obviously quicker than the 306 and yet the GTI-6 felt very lithe and the suspension and steering were much more GTI like than the (VW)GTI. When it came to the interior though, the Golf shone through despite the plastic wood.
The GTI-6 was the last of the decent Peugeot hot hatches and the mk4 was the last of the rubbish VW GTIs. Mind you sometimes I think the Golf wants to be a Peugeot when I look at the 307 foglights on the new GTI.
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I never had cause to complain about the Peugeot's interior, and I don't remember the Golf being noticeably better at the time. The utter disappearance of anything resembling a decent car in the Peugeot line was part of the reason I kept the 306 for so long. The 307 was a disaster.
Of course the other reason was that I just loved the 306 for itself. I should have changed it in 2003, just before we sold our business, but a cursory search of hot hatches at that time didn't reveal an obvious contender. And if I'd changed it then, it might have been a lot harder to exit the business in 2006 with a newer car when I realised I despised the new owners, without any questions asked or money changing hands. And a car bought in 2003 wouldn't have caught the scrappage deal, and at just the moment this little peach of a Golf became available.
Sometimes it all works out for the best.
But I really did enjoy watching that clip - I never saw it before.
Rolfe.
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Actually I really like my 307 so before you start bad mouthing have you ever driven one? mine is a 2.0 litre diesel delivering 136bhp and it is fast, it flings me back in my seat when I hammer it up a hill near to me, it has top spec on an XSi and is a neat looking car, I am only getting rid cos I want a mark 6 GTi and my Peugeot is coming up for 4 years old and is starting to need attention at services etc.
If the mark 6 hadn't appeared on the scene I wouldn't be getting rid of my 307 but as I've always yearned for a GTi now is as good a time as any, so unless you have driven or owned one please do not cast aspersions!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry:
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Both, but only sort of! :grin: One of our employees chose a 307 as her company car (so technically, I owned it!), and I drove it a couple of times. It felt like a shopping trolley with a lawnmower engine on it compared to my 306, but I'm prepared to believe that was an engine capacity problem. I can't remember exactly what it was.
It was always in the bloody dealers for one fault after another though. Some ghastly electrical fault, I'm not sure there wasn't an actual recall at one stage. Horrible bloody car.
I'm perfectly prepared to believe that was an aberration, and no offence meant, but I didn't think the 307 had a model to touch the 306 GTi.
Rolfe.
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Well ok i've calmed down somewhat now, yes I believe there were some problems with the earlier 307's but after 2005 when they did a face lift most seemed to be cured!! Touch wood mine has never given me any trouble and as I said before being the top speed diesel engine it really is like s--t off a shovel. :grin: :grin:
Needless to say this new gti is really going to be faster than anything i've had before and I can't wait to take delivery and start roving the roads of North Yorkshire :grin: :grin: :grin:
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father in law had peugeots for years,His last was a 307,top of the range,had loads of problems with it, has totally put him off peugeots for life,before that he had nothing but praise for them.
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Guess i've been lucky then. :grin:
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Irma's 307 would have been an early one, not long after the 306 was superseded. Don't remember the exact date. That car was a turkey though. I drove it when it was brand new, and I think that was the moment I decided my 306 would have to be prised from my cold, dead hands.
That's why I have to have the Golf GTi Mk VI. Only a car better than the Peugeot can reconcile me to its demise. Otherwise I'll still be paying for pointless repairs and throwing good money after bad when it's 20.
Rolfe.
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I just watched the old Top Gear clip again.
"The Peugeot 306 GTi becomes the best friend you ever had."
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
And it has every single one of the goodies Clarkson praised the Golf for (aircon, trip meter and so on). And its back folds down just as well as the Golf's, and the boot is even bigger. I know, I measured it.
So he put the Golf ahead because it had 5 doors. Five doors is a dealbreaker on a hot hatch, when speed and manoeuverability and fun factor are poorer? Yo, maybe VW are paying him at that, and have been all along! :grin:
And did you see him driving? He had the headrest about level with the middle of his neck. If he's crashed that, he'd have been geography.
Ah, but I'll treasure that little clip.
Rolfe.
ETA: Are you sure that would have been the Mk IV Golf in the test? I would have thought it would have been done in 1997 when the Peugeot was new. I remember choosing the car in December 1997, and buying it at the beginning of 1998, and I'm pretty sure it was the Mk III that lost in the shortlist battle then. But if the Mk IV came out later in 1998, perhaps it was indeed the Mk IV on the test.
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Let it go,it will be a square lump of metals,plastics and glass soon :evil:
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ETA: Are you sure that would have been the Mk IV Golf in the test? I would have thought it would have been done in 1997 when the Peugeot was new. I remember choosing the car in December 1997, and buying it at the beginning of 1998, and I'm pretty sure it was the Mk III that lost in the shortlist battle then. But if the Mk IV came out later in 1998, perhaps it was indeed the Mk IV on the test.
Yes it's a mk4, I remember watching the test when they did it and I just watched the first 5 seconds of the YouTube clip and that's definately a mk4.
They used the GTI-6 as it was the best of the then current crop and the mk4 Golf as it was leaps and bounds better than the crappy mk3. The mk4 was released in the UK around this time on an R plate.
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That'll be right then. I'm certain I bought the Peugeot before the Mk 4 came out. I chose it just before Christmas 1997 and had some fun over Christmas visiting any dealer I happened to be passing to drool over their show cars. I ordered in January and took delivery February.
The Mk 3 was the other half of the short list, but it lost in spades, I'm afraid. Looks like it was a good decision, back then!
Clarkson isn't half pro-Golf in that clip though. The Peugeot wiped the floor with the Golf on everything except having 5 doors, but he still chose the Golf. He had a lot more criticism of the Mk 4 when he tested the Mk 5 though! :grin:
Rolfe.
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Clarkson is well known as a GTI enthusiast....maybe he lurks about this forum :laugh:
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Clarkson is well known as a GTI enthusiast....maybe he lurks about this forum :laugh:
Well, it was his review of the Mk V that sold me on the Mk VI. I questioned at the time if VW was slipping him the odd tenner for it....
I watched the Top Gear review of the Focus ST, which was funny and entertaining, and contained no especial reason to put me off the car. But then I thought I'd see what he had to say about the Golf, and found the Mk V review without realising it wasn't the current model. The line he took was simply far more in tune with what I wanted from a car, and although I'd already been attracted by a number of the Golf's features, I date my determination to have the Golf from the moment I watched that review.
Of course it did turn out to be the Mk V not the Mk VI, but I don't see the differences between the two models as all that substantial, and nobody unbiassed is seriously suggesting that the Mk VI is inferior, so altogether I'm a happy bunny. I can see that it's necessary to correct for his blatant prejudice though! :rolleyes:
Sigh. I'll miss the 306. Only a peach like the Golf can possibly reconcile me to this....
Rolfe.