GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Neo Badness on 12 May 2009, 16:31
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I'm in the process of putting my mk2 16v through it's MOT and it's failed on power steering not working.
Have a '91 mk2 16v, I bought the car knowing that previous owner had removed the old pump but he included a replacement part.
However, I didn't clock that he had butchered the high pressure hose + connection. I've been quoted 157.50 plus the VAT for it and understandably I'm looking for alternatives.
Question 1. will my '94 mk3 16v power steering hoses fit the mk2 rack and pump?
Question 2. Does anyone know the part number for the hose on the high pressure side?
Question 3. If all else fails how straight forward is it to fit a manual rack?
Many thanks in advance
NB
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Get down to Pirtek and get a replacement hose made up - good quality and normally not dear.
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Get down to Pirtek and get a replacement hose made up - good quality and normally not dear.
Where are Pirtek based I'm in Dundee, are they national?
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1. yes
2. you really dont want to know :grin:
3. not an easy job, subframe will need dropping a bit
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1. yes
2. you really dont want to know :grin:
3. not an easy job, subframe will need dropping a bit
1.LEGEND!! I'm going to go and pull my mk3 to bits to get the power steering hoses off that fecker and boost them down to the garage.
2. Aw, go on... :grin:
3. Fair do's I'll leave it alone...
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ok you asked for it :grin:
192 422 893 A - 157.19+VAT
Only potential problem I can see is if the pump etc was removed due to a faulty rack! then either way you'll have to replace it. the MK3 one will fit but you'll need to use the MK3 UJ and track rods.
1 thing, be VERY carefull doing up the unions to the rack, space is very limited and it is easy to cross thread them :(
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Just for info pirtek don't like making power steering hoses due to hse issues.
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Just for info pirtek don't like making power steering hoses due to hse issues.
ORLY?
'Just for info' there didn't seem to be any issues getting a hose made up last autumn. We took the car down there to get them to make it up, too. No one batted an eyelid.
Maybe you're confusing this with their not making up fuel hoses, which they absolutely will not do.
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Just for info pirtek don't like making power steering hoses due to hse issues.
ORLY?
'Just for info' there didn't seem to be any issues getting a hose made up last autumn. We took the car down there to get them to make it up, too. No one batted an eyelid.
Maybe you're confusing this with their not making up fuel hoses, which they absolutely will not do.
You were lucky, I work with hydraulics and use pirtek a lot, they have a company policy of not making brake / fuel or power steering hoses, it has something to due with hse regs, they may have done yours as a one off.
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There's a fella on here that makes up recon racks and hoses and bits. His names Flakey or summet.
Change the title of the thread to something relevant and he might spot it.
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Cheers for the feedback guys...
Aw man, I think I'll have to bite the bullet and buy and buy this fricking expensive ass hose. :cry:
Spent 3hrs other night pulling the mk3 rack to bits and all for nowt. :angry: :cry:
Anyone got a spare one kicking about that I can come pick up?!?!
Either that or my wallet will have to be mortally wounded....
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i had to buy all the hoses from a Rado and a recon mk2 rack, and a second hand pump. i went for new VAG as i couldnt be arsed dicking around, cost over £300 :laugh:
rack is easy to change once youve lowered the subframe, i also replaced the UJ as that was fooked too :nerd:
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i had to buy all the hoses from a Rado and a recon mk2 rack, and a second hand pump. i went for new VAG as i couldnt be arsed dicking around, cost over £300 :laugh:
rack is easy to change once youve lowered the subframe, i also replaced the UJ as that was fooked too :nerd:
AeeeYAH, are these pipes and pumps made from platinum?!?
Got a 2nd hand pump for gratis so that's something I suppose. was quoted 85+ VAT for that.
Gutted, proper gutted.
Wouldn't have minded so much but had not budgeted for it at all.
Just forked out 160.00 for 2x tyres
Need to replace my shocks and top mounts/ rear wheel bearings soon too. :rolleyes:
Anyone know if mk3 ABF power steering rack/pump/ etc needs to be transfered to mk2 when doing the ABF into KR engine swap?
Just need to get the soddin car through the soddin MOT... :sick:
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i had to buy all the hoses from a Rado and a recon mk2 rack, and a second hand pump. i went for new VAG as i couldnt be arsed dicking around, cost over £300 :laugh:
rack is easy to change once youve lowered the subframe, i also replaced the UJ as that was fooked too :nerd:
AeeeYAH, are these pipes and pumps made from platinum?!?
Got a 2nd hand pump for gratis so that's something I suppose. was quoted 85+ VAT for that.
Gutted, proper gutted.
Wouldn't have minded so much but had not budgeted for it at all.
Just forked out 160.00 for 2x tyres
Need to replace my shocks and top mounts/ rear wheel bearings soon too. :rolleyes:
Anyone know if mk3 ABF power steering rack/pump/ etc needs to be transfered to mk2 when doing the ABF into KR engine swap?
Just need to get the soddin car through the soddin MOT... :sick:
If fitting an ABF, you would keep your mk2 pas set up including pump.
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If fitting an ABF, you would keep your mk2 pas set up including pump.
Eh? He could just fit all MK3 bits, alternator, water pump and PAS pump and have the more modern (and reliable) multi-v belt.
The MK2 PAS rack can be swapped for the MK3 one - however, you need to change over the track rods as they are longer on the MK3. Or you could fit MK3 front wishbones/hubs and widetrack it - but then you'll have to sort the rear wheels from being 4 stud.
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Well ok, I was wrong maybe.
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Hmmn, was really wanting to keep it 4 stud as I prefer my 4 stud wheels.
I have a pretty much complete mk3 golf sitting cluttering up my mates driveway (his Mum loves me :laugh:)
But the mk2 is being held hostage at MOT station as it's already failed it's mot and awaiting retest. Don't want to fork out another 50 for new MOT.
So, think I'll just have to cough up for the hi pressure pipe in interim.
I'm working all weekend as well and can't face the ballache trailing round breakers looking for a rusty pipe that they want 300 quid for.
Can always figure out what I'll do regarding the situation of steering racks TRE's etc. closer to the time.
Sound like a plan?
Couple lack of golf, huge bill and to add insult to injury I'm running around in a slow ass diesel transit van with 290k on the clock...
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dont need to swap the wheel bearing housings or anything as ben says, swap MK2 PAS track rods onto the MK3 rack and it'll drop right in like for like. You also need the MK3 UJ though, MK2 one wont fit MK3 rack.
You could keep the MK2 rack as well, but the MK3 one is newer so probably will be better, also you've not had the MK2 rack working so cant say if its knackered or not! Either way keep the MK3 alt/pas setup, as ben says its miles ahead of the MK2 setup, plus parts for it are now plentiful in scrappies with more mk3s getting scrapped!
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He could just fit all MK3 bits, alternator, water pump and PAS pump and have the more modern (and reliable) multi-v belt.
Hate to say it, but the Golf3 non-air-con system uses the same mincey little V-belt and sh1tty tensioning system on the power steering as the Golf2.
Only thing you gain is the multi-rib belt on the alternator.
That's Why DannyP and I have something on the blocks to deal with the nasty powersteering pump belt situation once and fer all. :smug:
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That's Why DannyP and I have something on the blocks to deal with the nasty powersteering pump belt situation once and fer all. :smug:
What's that, ditching PAS :laugh:
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I had to replace all my power steering hoses on my Mk2 16v & this guy made them all for me for £120..
Check out "power-steering-store" on eBay & mail the guy to see what he says.. Very helpful chappie!
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Hate to say it, but the Golf3 non-air-con system uses the same mincey little V-belt and sh1tty tensioning system on the power steering as the Golf2.
Only thing you gain is the multi-rib belt on the alternator.
That's Why DannyP and I have something on the blocks to deal with the nasty powersteering pump belt situation once and fer all. :smug:
V belt maybe the same thickness, but the tensioning setup is completly different.
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V belt maybe the same thickness, but the tensioning setup is completly different.
I'm sorry, I forgot to add, IN MY EXPERIENCE.
Whether the part numbers are slightly different or not, IN MY EXPERIENCE the power steering tensioner on both G2 and G3 operates in the same way and it's still a crappy set up.
Do tell us how the power steering set up on the Golf3 is better than the Golf2, in your experience.
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IMO the mk2 powersteering setup is a strap on afterthought botch. the mk3 system may be slightly diffrent but i don't care it's still a fugly botch. hence i has made a reservation in the bin for it after last time i had to remove it it played silly buggers putting it back on and took about 2 hours longer than it should- not happy about that.
i'm keeping pas, i'm useing vw bits, but not the nasty golf pump
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can you elaborate on that? im just curious mind, ive never had a problem with the mk2 setup. the only annoying thing i find is getting to that hidden bolt round the back (IN MY EXPERIENCE raaar shout etc)
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All you need to do is extend your experience to late Polos and the like, which have an electric power steering system on them and then use your imagination......
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or wait for someone helpful to tell me....
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Don't go holding your breath.
I wouldn't want to be responsible for your death.
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:huh:
as usual your snidy remark needs explaining, why would i be dying?
i was referring to danny-p btw. its obvious hes the brains behind your 'knowledge'
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I don't think that was a terribly snide remark, unless you are always ready to take offence, which of course, as a naysayer you are.
It wouldn't take very long for you to die holding your breath.
It will take slightly longer than that to complete this plan.
Do you want me to draw you a picture?
Danny and my skills are pretty complementary, but yes, he has all the good ideas and I am a charlatan gobshyte.
Better to be in the open spouting interesting shyte, than on the sidelines shouting spite.
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I don't think that was a terribly snide remark
theres your problem :wink:
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well IN MY EXPERIENCE the MK2 uses an absolutly wonderful system that involves 5 or 6 bolts to loosen, plus a really ugly T bolt thingy which has a threaded head on it. This tends to be all bent from previous owners overdoing it trying to tension a knackered old belt, or trying to tenion it without loosening the hidden bolt round the back of the pump.
MK3 uses literally 3 bolts, one of which has a toothed wheel on it to allow you to set tension with a spanner. OK its no clever self-tensioner system, but it works well and is infinitly easier to adjust.
The yanks have several methods for including the pas pump in with the main serp belt, but I dont really see the point personally when the stock system will work fine for years on end without needing to look at it.
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i like the mk2 setup as much as pirburg carbs and the mk3 setup as much as k jet.
it would be quite easy to put the pas pump on the serpentine belt but not doing that ether. i'm going for a nice cute polo pump then the pump can go wherever i want to put it and no parasitic load on the engine, it only pumps when needed
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So what's the verdict guys? Mk3 Complete system sitting there known as working or trying to sort out the Mk2 one?
I know I need the bracket that holds the power steering pump on and the high pressure hose that leads away from it, anyone got one sitting in their shed??
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I had to replace all my power steering hoses on my Mk2 16v & this guy made them all for me for £120..
Check out "power-steering-store" on eBay & mail the guy to see what he says.. Very helpful chappie!
Had a look on ebay for above but no luck, any chance of a link gt?
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So what's the verdict guys? Mk3 Complete system sitting there known as working or trying to sort out the Mk2 one?
If you've got a full MK3 setup - why bother trying to fix the MK2 one?
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i should have a complete mk3 setup, as i must have removed one from the engine i blew up
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Pirtek do make fuel hoses, i am a mechanic in the army and have used pirtek more than once for fuel hoses for tanks!!!!!
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i thought it sounded funny them not doing pas hoses or fuel hoses.
i mean they do gurt big hydralic lines i'm sure a gurt big hydralic line failing can have far more issues concirning the HSE than a dinky pas hose it's not like it stops you steering or anything, tho big hydralic lines have large rams attached to bih heavy swinging things
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Great big fuel hoses with 30 psi of fuel in them!!!!
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Have been looking @ Pirtek.co.uk and there is one just down the road from me!!
First bit of good news I've had in days. Unfortunately I have been workin so it was closed today.
Would it be best to give them a shout Monday see if they can sort me out and any ideas as to what sort of price I should be expecting to pay?
Also been scrambling around in Scrap yards looking for a replacement bits, anyone know off hand if 13in wheels will fit over 256mm brakes? Found some sweet, straight, gen' BBS wheels off an old mk2 'rocco. Don't hav my motor for comparison.
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Give them a ring, not sure what they charge but i know they do a mobile service, don't think they are that expensive.
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Great big fuel hoses with 30 psi of fuel in them!!!!
that chould also ruin your day quite effectivly. the only ones that scare me are LPG lines. muppet re ended one of them once and i got the job of refitting it, 10mm pipe at 20 bar full of liquid propane and the new end blows off. thankfully nowhere re-ends hoses anymore
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Yep, we did have one burst (not made by pirtek, an off the shelf one) fortunatly no-one was in the back, could have been 8 infantry men in there, fuel was every where though.
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Cheers, I've missed my MOT retest date and the boy who is doing the work is on holiday next week :rolleyes:
But on the plus side it does give me a bit more time to source/hunt down some (cheaper)bits.
I have even been in touch with the stealers to try and obtain bits, desperate or what!?
Trying to stay positive about the situtation, might detail the new/replacement rack when I get, cheer myself up a bit... :grin:
Prospective Tally stands @ MOT £52.00+ Retest = £104.00
New rear caliper £60.00 (Previous owner replaced the other one, without replacing the pair)
New Hand brake cable £20.00
Power Steering Hose £157.15
Power steering pump £85.00
New rack £ 120.00
Total spend without labour/VAT.... Lots.... :cry:
Parts 546.15
VAT 81.90
Labour 100.00
Total 728.80 :shocked: :shocked:
Could have got my ABF swapped by a garage for that price....
Who'd have thought an engine swap would work out cheaper than a steering rack? :laugh:
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Just had a phone call and wondered is there any difference in the 8v and 16v steering rack pipes couplings?
Basically if I buy an 8v rack and pump pipes etc. Will it fit?
Cheers in advance
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Just to try and put things into perspective a little - I recently had a similar workload for an MOT.
merry easter
a lot has happened since my last post, mostly that I am 23 now - a relative old man and it was MOT time again. well actually, that was about 2 weeks ago now - its been a saga!
the old girl went in for her MOT and unfortunately didn't do her best on the day and failed on me and failed herself. the breakdown was
- holed sill offside
- holed sill nearside
- nearside parking brake poop (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=112066.0)
- leaky pas
- offside main beam parp
...
Be sensible about your workload and work smart and you can repair it for substantially less. As above, my PAS was leaking - so I fixed it with copious amounts of araldite and its like new, the handbrake was a sticking point for me as I was in a rush, but you can pick up a pair of MK3 callipers for £30 from a scrappy and they bolt straight on.
And the price of that MOT, are they having a laugh - I've never paid over £25 for an MOT - shop around a bit! The total sum for my MOT was £60 for the callipers and hoses and £25 for the MOT itself.
RE: the 16v rack - IIRC they are exactly the same, the track width on the car, the water pump etc. are all the same. I think my 8v has a 16v rack on it.
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Yeah Ben, I know I can get it done for less, It's unfortunate the car is in bits in their workshop/ Altenator off etc otherwise I would have had it away to work on while he was on holiday.
Aside from that I'm usually pretty good at scoring a good deal when parts are concerned but I just haven't had the time this week (worked 60 hrs) Working 2 jobs to make ends meet. Fingers crossed my eagle eye has spotted a rack and ancilliers (high pressure hose/pump etc) for considerably less than previous quote.
Keep everything crossed for me as i don't think I could afford to spend a months wages on the MOT or it would have to be sold and I don't want to sell it... Cause I'd get sweeties for it with no MOT even in good condition.
Hope you're right about the compatibility of 8v vs 16v racks and cheers for the knowledge
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Just a quick update, I have scored a complete power steering rack, hoses, pump etc. for a good price albeit plus the p&p.
Result!
Spoke to seller who reckoned it was in good condition but has been in his garage for a year.
Hopefully I'll be able to make one good rack out of the two.
Going to VAG tomorrow to see about a power steering bracket that mounts to block as that's the only bit not included.
A glimmer of hope perhaps?
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aye rack is physically the same, though the 16v racks supposed to be quicker than the 8v ones. certainly a diff party # on etka! either way the important thing is yes 8v and 16v pipes will swap over all day long without problems.
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i thought it sounded funny them not doing pas hoses or fuel hoses.
i mean they do gurt big hydralic lines i'm sure a gurt big hydralic line failing can have far more issues concirning the HSE than a dinky pas hose it's not like it stops you steering or anything, tho big hydralic lines have large rams attached to bih heavy swinging things
Hydraulics have anti drop or burst valves so if a pipe bursts the ram will only drop a small amount, it is very rare that any hydraulic pipe failure will result or cause an accident due to the safety items built in, I work with 52 ton excavators on a day to day basis and have seen a pipe burst with no issues, brake or steering pipe failure could on the other hand cause an accident or loss of control that is why Hse regs don't allow or should not let them be made, I am not saying you cannot get it made by a hose company but they should not and if they do it outside of Hse regs.
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pas hose poping will have no more effect than the pas belt snaping the steering will go heavy. anyway if a hose company osn't allowed to make power steering hoses who is ?
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aye rack is physically the same, though the 16v racks supposed to be quicker than the 8v ones. certainly a diff party # on etka! either way the important thing is yes 8v and 16v pipes will swap over all day long without problems.
That's good news just got to get it from Norwich to Dundee now...Anyone suggest a good/reliable courier?
I thought that it was only different speed of rack between manual and power, power being quicker @ 3.1 vs 3.6 lock to lock :nerd:
I may be wrong but reasonably sure I read that somewhere.
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pas rack quicker than manual
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pas rack quicker than manual
Whey!!
Danny_P has spoken, good enough for me.
All that time spent geeking out hasn't been wasted then... :laugh:
Anyone know what the part number is for the bracket that mounts the power steering pump to the block? Also if there is anywhere I can lay my hands on one?
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yeah it goes in this order of quickness
manual (all models same)
pas
16v/g60 pas
if what they say about 16v pas rack bein quicker than normal pas is true. cant see any other reason for part numbers to be different tho ;)
which bracket are you after in particular?
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yeah it goes in this order of quickness
manual (all models same)
pas
16v/g60 pas
if what they say about 16v pas rack bein quicker than normal pas is true. cant see any other reason for part numbers to be different tho ;)
which bracket are you after in particular?
Interesting, I've sourced an 8v rack as I'm in a pinch, but doubt I'll notice a difference? And must be better than non assisted broken power steering?
I'm after the bracket that mounts the power steering pump to the block as the prevoius bellend who removed system copulated it...
So basically a power steering pump bracket to fit KR...
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I doubt its going to be a massive difference, but ive only driven cars with manual and 16v pas so couldnt say from personal experience! all i know is the 16v pas is great, feels just like manual steerring when you're on the move, you only notice the assistance when parking.
in a pinch tho i wouldnt have a problem fitting an 8v rack if its a known good one :)
the bracket thats bolted to the pump is:
027 145 521 - 27.72+VAT
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i don't think there is much of a differance between them. the syncro proably has an 8v rack in it and i don't find myself thinking it would be better with a 16v one when trying to give it the large and nasty.
the rack is defantly one of those things vw got very right. and one of the few hatches i prefer to drive fast with pas, when moveing it feels liek a manual rack as rj said but hell you can pile the lock on fast when the arse end starts getting away from you. there have been a couple of intresting moments that chould very easly have been painfull if had a manual rack
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This thread now justifies the use of this image:
(http://www.realhhg.com/graphics/spotter.gif)
Expect further outings.
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Cheers guys, I feel a bit better now. Was def having concerns about fitting the 8v one, but when you've been to 6 scrap yards and only turned up 2 mk2's, both with manual racks you start to lose heart.
So when one popped up on the 'bay I had his arm off for it.
Will order the the pump bracket tommorow, just to clarify, this is the bracket that fits to the block?
Was quite gutting to see a spotless 5door shell never welded sitting in the scrappy. But I did score an immaculate pair of original door speaker covers for a quid though... :smiley:
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thats the bracket that is bolted to the pump itself, its like a long thin metal arm?
part 10 in this piccy:
(http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/g2pas.jpg)
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thats the bracket that is bolted to the pump itself, its like a long thin metal arm?
part 10 in this piccy:
(http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/g2pas.jpg)
Nah, I've got two of them, I need the actual bracket that holds it all to the block, the un-numbered bit that all the other bits are attaching to in the diagram. Any idea part no/ proper name. I have a few names for it but none that i can repeat here :wink:
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ouch, not cheap! has to be 16v PAS one too, non-pas and a/c ones differ.
051260885A - 180€
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i think i have one of those, let me have a look. i recently put all the mk3 kit on so it should be somewhere
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i think i have one of those, let me have a look. i recently put all the mk3 kit on so it should be somewhere
Let me know if you do, I still haven't got my car running and back from the garage. Starting to have mk2 withdrawl symptoms.... :sad: