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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Daston on 07 May 2009, 08:24

Title: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 07 May 2009, 08:24
Hi guys,

My new tappets arrived yesterday and just wanted to confirm is my line of thought is correct. My plan was to mark up the belt and pulleys and then G clamp the cam belt to the crank pully so it cant slip, lossen the tentioner pulley and remove the cam belt from the cam pulley so that I can lift the cam shaft out. Would this work or do I need to remove the whole belt? The belt is pretty new so dont need to replace it. 
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 07 May 2009, 08:47
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=49436.msg886430#msg886430

Read.

You can clamp the belt if you want, but its not advised. Mark the cam relative to the belt, you can't clamp the belt to the crank because the timing belt cover and aux crank pulley is in the way. The way to do it is loosen the tensioner a fraction, slip the belt from the cam, then use molegrips to pinch it to itself over the aux shaft and tensioner.

For the 5 minutes it takes to remove the aux. belt and timing belt cover and mark it properly, its going to save you posting back with a new thread how do I set my valve timing. You don't need to replace the belt just because you've removed it...
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 07 May 2009, 13:24
ahhh cheers dude read your how to guide a few times. Am I right in thinking the only reason the crank pulley needs to come off is to remove the timing belt cover?? As mine dosnt have the cover on (didnt know they had them until I saw them for sale)
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: DarnPB on 07 May 2009, 18:35
You only need to remove the bottom pulley if you are to replace the cam belt. To make sure that you put the belt on in the right position, put the No.1 cylinder into TDC at the compression stroke. look on the back of the cam pulley and you should see a punch mark. This should be aligned with the top of the head. You then slacken off the tensioner and remove the belt from the top pulley. Fitting is reverse of removal as long as you are sure that the crank has not turned in the meantime, which is unlikely.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 07 May 2009, 21:25
as you are sure that the crank has not turned in the meantime, which is unlikely.

And also the aux shaft for the dizzy/oil pump ;) That does turn easy.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 08 May 2009, 13:25
cheers guys will make a start on it at the weekend and take my time. At least its a lot easier to get at than the other car.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Diamond Hell on 08 May 2009, 22:45
Errr, I might be wrong, but if you're releasing the cameblt then you should replace the belt.

For the money I think you'd be a tit not to replace it.

Replaced tappets in an engine with a snapped cambelt and bent valves aren't a good look.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 09 May 2009, 00:14
The belt is pretty new so dont need to replace it. 

You should know better DH, 8vs are non interferance (well, prior to lairy cams and heavy skimming)
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: sharpie on 09 May 2009, 00:15
The belt is pretty new so dont need to replace it. 

You should know better DH, 8vs are non interferance (well, prior to lairy cams and heavy skimming)

do you really want to chance it?
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 09 May 2009, 01:01
As much as I'm for replacing belts when they need it, the timing belt is designed to last around 60k miles  - whats the point in replacing it until its remotely near that threshold. If the OP says its pretty new, be it on his head, but IMO if it only had, say, 15k on it - why bother replacing it.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: OakeyDoak16v on 09 May 2009, 01:11
If you can afford it and for self reassurance, change the bugger. Then you know it's done. You can start a fresh on everything else.
 :smiley:
Dont cut corners, if you've got the head off do it anyway. :smiley:
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Diamond Hell on 09 May 2009, 09:56
You should know better DH, 8vs are non interferance (well, prior to lairy cams and heavy skimming)

You should know better Ben, if you read the information about cambelts it says if you release the belt it should be replaced.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 09 May 2009, 12:37
Genuinely didn't know that. I've had my timing belt off a bajillion times too :(
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: fishnchipsx2 on 09 May 2009, 19:59
Where did you read this information?
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Diamond Hell on 09 May 2009, 23:33
Where did you read this information?

IIRC it's been on many boxes that cambelts have been in.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 10 May 2009, 09:56
That's an interesting one DH.
I've never heard that before myself, not a single workshop manual i've read says it needs to be done if released.
Although i agree if its all apart you may as well change it.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: DOA on 10 May 2009, 16:51
Do you always change the alternator belt when you take that off?
Not that it matters but ive never read anything recomending replacing HTD belts (thats all that most timing belts are) if removed in any industrial manuals/catalogues, only to calculate the service life and replace along the lines of that time. Just because a box says something, doesnt mean it always applies, it just means the things written on there are for the lowest common denominator to stop idiots suing the manufacturers when they poke a screwdriver through the belt and pop it back on again because "they know no better".
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: DarnPB on 10 May 2009, 17:08
Alternator belts are non critical to the running of your engine. With most engines, the cam belt is. If your alternator belt fails, you have about half an hour left to get to a safe place. If your cam belt fails, usually you end up on the side of whatever road you just happen to be on with a lunched engine. Saying that though, common sense comes into play here. if you live in a hot country, belts deteriorate faster, so you they need their changing times revising. If you have recently changed it, does it need changing again? No matter how old or how many miles it has done, has it slipped a tooth? The answers are endless with no definative one.
Use of the grey matter will tell you if it requires changing or not. The notes on the boxes are a 'get out of jail free card', and are only recomendations.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 10 May 2009, 17:28
Hmmm well I picked up a new belt and tensioner pulley so will change the lot. At least then I know I have done it.

However I think I have run into my first problem, cant get the bloody cam cover off. Undone all the nuts and it looks like some sealent is between the head and the cover making it stick hard. To be honest it looks almost like expanding foam  :shocked:
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: fishnchipsx2 on 10 May 2009, 20:09
Those upper cambelt covers are one of the most horrible designs in the world.  Basically, you're probably gonna need to yank it hard, they're really difficult and fiddly to take off.   It's probably worth taking off the alternator belt first, that'll make it a little bit easier.  :wink:

Edit: sorry, just realised you're not talking about the camBELT cover  :grin:
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 11 May 2009, 18:45
Yey managed to leaver it off.

However I think I have found the problem and it could possibly be the reason for the tapping noise.

It looks like I am missing a camshaft bearing cap, however instead of just being missing it seems to have snapped off at some point!

Any thoughts? I am guessing either new top end time or new engine...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/godaston/Golf%20Gti/P1010113.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/godaston/Golf%20Gti/P1010114.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/godaston/Golf%20Gti/P1010115.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/godaston/Golf%20Gti/P1010116.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/godaston/Golf%20Gti/P1010117.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/godaston/Golf%20Gti/P1010120.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/godaston/Golf%20Gti/P1010122.jpg)
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: danny_p on 11 May 2009, 19:00
read the f**king manual

it's meant to be like that
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 11 May 2009, 19:04
ahhh an RTFM moment? Whats with the spare holes in the cover? Plus in my defence the drawings (if they can be called that) in the haynes manual are pretty crap lol
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 11 May 2009, 19:06
Just looked at bens guide.........move along nothing to see here
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: danny_p on 12 May 2009, 00:24
with cambelts, they can be released and re tensioned no problem and dose not affect belt life.  but beware if you take the belt off once a belt has been run and beded into the pullys if it is taken off it must be put back on so the belt is traveling the same direction,  draw an arrow on the belt.  flip a used belt round and put it on it wont stay on very long but fo rthe sub £10 ness they normaly get an early cam belt change
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 12 May 2009, 08:24
Sorry guys another question. Reading in the haynes manual it says that the campulley has a marking for TDC. I can see the marking fine, however it tells me to line that up with a hole in the timing belt cover. I dont have a timing belt cover so how do I know what is TDC?
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 12 May 2009, 09:07
Leave the cambelt on, remove the spark plug on cyl. 1, put your thumb over the hole and turn the crank until you feel pressure (don't forget the piston can rise on the exhaust stroke), stick a *long* straw in the hole, turn the crank (clockwise) until the straw hits its peak.

Not 100% accurate, but it will let you know roughly where TDC is and hopefully line up some other markings for you.

TDC is meant to be stamped on the flywheel, but this relies on the flywheel never having been changed. It can be spotted through the inspection cover in the bell housing.

But TBH, you don't need to set the engine to TDC when changing tappets. Just mark the crank in relation to the block and aux shaft, the cam in relation to the head and mark the belt in relation to the cam, aux and crank pulleys (obv. with distinctive marks). Then just line up the marks when you put it back together. Plus, it will also ensure the belt goes on the same way round ;)
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 12 May 2009, 19:25
Cheers for all the help :) Managed to get the cam out and new tappets in. Replaced camshaft and bolted it down (that was harder than I expected). Belt is back on and all lined up, however I seem to have a lot of slack on the right side of the belt. I can not seem to get the tensioner pulley across to the right anymore and the belt if very tight from the crank to the tensioner. Any ideas? Could the belt have stretched at all?
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: danny_p on 12 May 2009, 19:33
cambelts don't strech, they only snap
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Steve_B on 12 May 2009, 19:41
There should be just enough slack to twist the belt through 90 degrees in its longest part. Seemed a bit much to me but that's what the guides said.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 12 May 2009, 20:03
Cheers for all the help :) Managed to get the cam out and new tappets in. Replaced camshaft and bolted it down (that was harder than I expected). Belt is back on and all lined up, however I seem to have a lot of slack on the right side of the belt. I can not seem to get the tensioner pulley across to the right anymore and the belt if very tight from the crank to the tensioner. Any ideas? Could the belt have stretched at all?

The tensioner can only apply tension to one side of the belt loop. You need to fit the belt, then turn the crank and camshaft ever so slightly away from each other to pull tension on the front side of the belt, then the tensioner applies tension on the back.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 12 May 2009, 20:26
gotcha cheers will give that a bash tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 13 May 2009, 18:36
Well just got in and its much better :) there is about 1cm slack on the front side is this too much? Tried looking in the Haynes manual but it dosnt say (or if it does I am blind).

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 13 May 2009, 18:38
You need to just be able to turn it through 90 degrees on both sides.

10mm deflection sounds about right.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 13 May 2009, 21:13
cool thanks, just got to clean the head up now and get the gasket on and see how she runs.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: AudiA8Quattro on 13 May 2009, 21:23
The general rule for cam belts is you should be able to turn the belt 90 degrees with just finger and thumb pressure, on the longest part of the belt.
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 14 May 2009, 13:01
cool you learn something new everyday :) Most I have ever done to belts is change drive belts. Although my crank pulley did shatter once on my Supra a few years back.....to make it worse it was on the way to a resteraunt for my girlfriends 21st :(
Title: Re: Changing tappets on a 8v
Post by: Daston on 17 May 2009, 16:56
Massive thanks to all you help! Fired it up today and it sounds great :) Solid idle at 800rpm and hardly and tapping at all. Slight puff of oily smoke from the exhaust though so will keep an eye on that.