GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: ianmaxtec on 27 April 2009, 07:40
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Just serviced my MK2 gti. Oil filter, plugs, air filter and oil. The car has been using semi synthetic 10W40 for the last number of years, however this time round I decided to use multigrade oil, as this is the oil the engine was designed to run on. However when I finished the service and started the engine, the tappets (well I think it’s the tappets) were much noisier. I then (out of desperation) drained the multigrade oil, and replaced it with semi synthetic 10W40…. no difference, still a very loud knock on tick over, strangely when I rev the engine it seems to disappear. Any suggestions would be welcome :cry:
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... Waiting for SCP to comment :rolleyes:
Sounds like blocked channels/low pressure, run an engine flush through - or a litre of ATF with your engine oil for 100 miles if you brave.
Just to confirm though, is it a knock - or a tick? Tappets don't knock, they chatter, crank bearings knock (plus the sounds comes from the bottom).
I'd do a search for Tappets in the MK2 section - see what comes up (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=104027.0) :laugh:
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Its more of a knock than a tappet noise....its also hard to pin point the sound. what confuses me is why did this happen, all I did was change the oil !!!!
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Ben, you mentioned ATF as a possible fix, you also mentioned "if I was brave", what are the dangers with adding ATF to the oil ?
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ATF is a lot more aggressive than conventional flushes, oil that has baked onto the head/block over the past 20 years that would take nothing short of an explosive to remove can be stripped off by ATF.
The problem with this, is that any build up of oil over the years can make up for wear on the components - effectively making a seal. Flushing through with ATF thoroughly cleans out the engine, and can remove this 'protective' film of crap, leading to the engine burning oil / low oil pressure etc.
I ran it though mine and combined with a bunch of things, it fixed my tappet noise, but I wouldn't go recommending it on a whim, especially since my valve stem seals are leaking now more than before I replaced them :lipsrsealed:
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as above, the atf cleared out all the crud holding my oil cooler together :grin:
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If it is knocking that sounds more than a tappets.
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Tried flushing out with STP engine flush (was not brave enough to try ATF), also changed the oil, again........no joy, still loads of horrible noises!
Is it possible that changing form semi s to multigrade might have blocked / damaged one of the lifters ?
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Try to judge what speed the noise is. ie, is it at engine speed, or half engine speed. Half engine speed is valve train, where-as engine speed is possibly bottom end. Bottom end will be more of a heavy knock rather than a tap.
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does the tapping disapear withing 2 minutes of starting? i spoke to a local ledgend in my area after servicing mine, exact same problem, he said that vw say, with the 8v engine, if the noise disapears withing 2 mins then you dont have a problem, if it does continue you do, mine takes a minute and a half at most but only when starting from stone cold, one solution is run it on 15w40 , its thick enough not to drain out of your tappets so quickly, magnatec aswell as it'll stick better!
Hope that helps!
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Prior to the service if you started the engine from cold you would get a knocking noise,, but this only lasted 5-10 seconds at most. The knocking is there all the time, regardless of engine temp. When you rev the engine the noise is greatly reduced (or might not even be there at all), and it is most obvious on tick over. As I explained I have run the engine to working temp, added STP engine flush and let the car tick over at about 1800rpm for 20 minutes, then while the oil was still hot enough to burn your fingers, I drained the sump, and refilled with 10W40 semi s.........made no difference whatsoever, which brings me to my previous question: is it possible that one of the lifters may have been damaged as a result of using a multigrade oil instead of SS which the car has been running on for years. one more point, but I doubt it is connected, my car likes oil, and if you give it a squirt on the open road, there is a nice cloud of blue smoke from the tail pipe. I had intended taking the engine out and having it re-built (any suggestions as to engineers in the UK or Ireland who do this work), looks like I might have to do this sooner than I had planned. BTW the engine is a 8V 1800 EV type engine
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I still say if it is knocking then it is more than a tappet.
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I still say if it is knocking then it is more than a tappet.
Tappets don't knock - otherwise they'd be called knockets.
Knocking screams big end bearings. Is the noise coming from the top or bottom?
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Prior to the service if you started the engine from cold you would get a knocking noise,, but this only lasted 5-10 seconds at most. The knocking is there all the time, regardless of engine temp. When you rev the engine the noise is greatly reduced (or might not even be there at all), and it is most obvious on tick over. As I explained I have run the engine to working temp, added STP engine flush and let the car tick over at about 1800rpm for 20 minutes, then while the oil was still hot enough to burn your fingers, I drained the sump, and refilled with 10W40 semi s.........made no difference whatsoever, which brings me to my previous question: is it possible that one of the lifters may have been damaged as a result of using a multigrade oil instead of SS which the car has been running on for years. one more point, but I doubt it is connected, my car likes oil, and if you give it a squirt on the open road, there is a nice cloud of blue smoke from the tail pipe. I had intended taking the engine out and having it re-built (any suggestions as to engineers in the UK or Ireland who do this work), looks like I might have to do this sooner than I had planned. BTW the engine is a 8V 1800 EV type engine
Rereading this again, I would say you have a big end gone to be honest.
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Knocking screams big end bearings. Is the noise coming from the top or bottom?
However, saying that, you should have noticed white metal flakes in your oil - it would look like black metallic paint.
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i wasalways told never to put cold oil into a hot engine, could this have something to do with it? i call it an excuse for some major engine tuning! :) if not then i have a re-built pb engine for sale :laugh:
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i wasalways told never to put cold oil into a hot engine, could this have something to do with it? i call it an excuse for some major engine tuning! :) if not then i have a re-built pb engine for sale :laugh:
Unless the oil was refrigerated - I can't see it doing any damage. Any oil change I've ever done was a on a hot engine (so the oil drains better).
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cold water into overheated enigine is the big no no. not only will it just gurgel for a moment then throw boiling water in your face it can also crack the block and or head
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never saw any signs of metal when draining the oil, and I had a good look, as the oil was very clear (only 24 hours old). still can get my head around why this happened, there was not a sign of any knocking whatsoever before the oil change (except if the car was left for days, started from cold, and even then it was just a tappet sound which was gone in seconds), I cant help thinking that something is not getting oil, where it was prior to the oil change..................................looks like engine out time...............................doom and gloom (not unlike the economy in Ireland)
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :undecided:
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Cut open your filter and look at the element to see if you have any white metal particles present. I still say though, it is probably a tappet issue.