GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: ifti on 16 April 2009, 21:02
-
Lets consider the most common scenario - front tyres are wearing down and need replacement soon, while rear tyres seem to have plenty of tread remaining.
Now lets say you purchase 2 new tyres to replace the two worn ones at the front - forget the tyre make for the moment.....
Would you.....
1. Remove the rear tyres (that still have good tread) and put these on the front. Then put the two new tyres on the rear....
OR...
2. Put the new tyres straight on the front to replace the worn ones, and leave the rears as they are...??
Under normal circumstances, i would probably have chosen no.2 above, but Ive just read this article, which was pretty interesting...
http://www.michelin.co.uk/michelinuk/en/car-van-4x4/less-worn-tyres-rear/20070314172074.html
So, what do you usually do in this situation?
-
I actually rotate mine so that they all wear out together :tongue: :laugh:
That way you can wait longer and save up for 4 new ones, of a different brand if wanted, with no worries about mixing :smiley:
-
I had my new ones on the back for a while (contisport 3's) but swapped them with the front as they are Pirelli P6000 (came with the car, blatantly cheapo's as they were nearly new, i suspect they were put on before the owner sold it) anyway swapped them so the new ones are on the front and she's handling tons better.
I havent notied any issues with handling, feels good,
R
-
if your rears really are still in good condition then id be tempted to stick them on the front and wack the new ones on rear that way the rears should last a couple of years and you can stick a new set on the front in 6 months time and have good rubber all round as rears should still be like new tbh only my way of thinking obviously :smiley:
-
put the new ones on the front, fwd & steer cars will handle alot better than having partly worn ones on there!
-
I've always put the new tyres on the rear. It is the more sensible, safe option and the rear is less likely to snap oversteer with more grip at the back. :smiley:
-
the rule is to put the better ones on the back and move the rears to the front. Option 1!!
-
New rubber on the front. FWD car. Lions share of the braking, all the power and of course the steering goes through them - why would you wan't anything but the freshest rubber there? The back wheels are effectively castors to stop the boot being dragged on the floor.
If you drive like a lunatic and your back end often comes out - you need to stop driving like a tit. In ten years of driving this has never happened to me and I do enjoy the odd B road thrash now and again. A slightly weaker argument is that with ESP you are much less likely to end up deid these days.
I understand the point fully, and there is some merit to it, but ultimately if you find yourself in the situation that your back end is flicking out (and its not due to ice / diesel spill etc etc) its your driving that needs adjusting - not the tyres!
-
^^well put! :afro:
-
^^^Thats not actually true.
If you have to slam on for whatever reason would you want your back end loosing grip or the front?? Likewise for any other situation where you have to swerve to avoid something, hit a pot hole or and other obstruction.
The front of the car car be steered where as once the rear has gone it has gone. Your also forgetting about the balance of the car under breaking. :nerd:
-
^^^Thats not actually true.
If you have to slam on for whatever reason would you want your back end loosing grip or the front?? Likewise for any other situation where you have to swerve to avoid something, hit a pot hole or and other obstruction.
The front of the car car be steered where as once the rear has gone it has gone. Your also forgetting about the balance of the car under breaking. :nerd:
I do see the theory, and its a valid one certainly. But my tyres are never 'that' close to the limit, ESP will (hopefully) save me, and I've never found myself in the situation where I'd be pushing it THAT hard.
-
^^^Thats not actually true.
If you have to slam on for whatever reason would you want your back end loosing grip or the front?? Likewise for any other situation where you have to swerve to avoid something, hit a pot hole or and other obstruction.
The front of the car car be steered where as once the rear has gone it has gone. Your also forgetting about the balance of the car under breaking. :nerd:
I do see the theory, and its a valid one certainly. But my tyres are never 'that' close to the limit, ESP will (hopefully) save me, and I've never found myself in the situation where I'd be pushing it THAT hard.
Im quite sure T_T posted quite alot on this subject a while back cant quite remember which thread though... might be worth a search.
p.s. You need to drve a little harder :evil: :evil: :tongue:
-
Having had a rear wheel drive car for a long time, I was certainly not fussed about wearing down the rears - give me oversteer any day over uncontrollable understeer - as long as the fronts had grip you could aim the car where you wanted.
I can't think the same would change in a front wheel drive car, and to be honest if you are driving within the limits of the road conditions, your ability, the handling of the car and the remaining rubber on your tyres, you won't run into these problems. If not, no amount of rubber is going to save you when you get it all wrong - front or rear.
Personally I would change tyres purely on a financial basis - fronts wear quicker, so put the new boots on the front lengthening the time you need to visit the garage again.
-
The other way to look at it is that 99.9% of the time you want the most grip at the front (for us FWD boys anyway). This is where you need it in everyday driving. In very limited circumstances you need it at the back, in some sort of emergency situation. Is it worth making your driving experience a little bit more dangerous 99.9% of the time for a little bit of an advantage 0.1% of the time? I would also argue that with care most emergency situations can be mitigated against. OK its hard to predict a child running out between parked cars but this is where your ESP comes in.
I do, hard AND (touch wood) safe :tongue:
And just cos T_T says it doesn't make it so :lipsrsealed:
-
The other way to look at it is that 99.9% of the time you want the most grip at the front (for us FWD boys anyway). This is where you need it in everyday driving. In very limited circumstances you need it at the back, in some sort of emergency situation. Is it worth making your driving experience a little bit more dangerous 99.9% of the time for a little bit of an advantage 0.1% of the time? I would also argue that with care most emergency situations can be mitigated against. OK its hard to predict a child running out between parked cars but this is where your ESP comes in.
I do, hard AND (touch wood) safe :tongue:
And just cos T_T says it doesn't make it so :lipsrsealed:
/runs for cover
-
The difference with RWD cars is that you can always counter the back breaking loose with more/less power. Not the case with FWD cars.
Think of it this way.. your driving along in the rain and you have to break heavily whilst avoiding an object. The front will grip alot better due the huge amounts of force being put on the front wheels (ESP etc stopping any kind of skid) . The back however becomes lighter and weight on the rears is reduced considerably, its at that point that you DO NOT want them to loose grip/let go.
-
I agree with the first point, but under heavy breaking, even a RWD car will do that - and no amount of rubber on the rear will stop it if you get the car that unstable.
IMO of course - I haven't taken a car to such limits on a public highway to experience it :)
-
I agree with the first point, but under heavy breaking, even a RWD car will do that - and no amount of rubber on the rear will stop it if you get the car that unstable.
IMO of course - I haven't taken a car to such limits on a public highway to experience it :)
See the point wasnt made in reference to a RWD or FWD car is any car... you want the tyres with more grip on the rear. Its common knowledge as far as I know. Maybe a call to a local tyre fitter is in order??? anyone?? :huh: :undecided:
-
The point I was trying to make is that in everyday driving the difference in rubber between the front and the rear will make very little difference (within reason of course, inside legal limits), I would always go for the longevity and financial option, and get the fronts replaced.
There are lot more factors involed in front and rear grip than just the depth of the tyres.
-
Option 1.As recomended by my garage. :smiley: :wink:
-
Option 1.As recomended by my garage. :smiley: :wink:
Thank you.... A professional opinion :grin:
-
The difference with RWD cars is that you can always counter the back breaking loose with more/less power. Not the case with FWD cars.
not entirely true, as alot of rwd drives have very 'snatchy' handling due weight etc on front rather than rear (as i found out a few weeks ago!)
thing is we are talking here about a situation where we let the rear tyres go to a minimum tread wise, if you look after both fronts and rears then no bother, i went through a few sets on my mk5 and always put new on front, this mainly being because they get eaten down the fastest and wanted the best traction on the front end as i thought it was felt more. when i sold the car i had brand new assynmetrics on the front and falken soft compound tyres on the rear and found it by far the best combo i ever used! i guess its down to preference but when tyres look like they need changing i just get them changed rather than wait for money etc etc :smiley:
-
Option 1.As recomended by my garage. :smiley: :wink:
Thank you.... A professional opinion :grin:
Dammit! :)
The cynic in me says they will see quicker repeat business this way ;)
-
Dont be stupid. New tyres to the rear.
Just be careful hammering into the corners with new tyres on (rear).
-
New rubber on the front. FWD car. Lions share of the braking, all the power and of course the steering goes through them - why would you wan't anything but the freshest rubber there? The back wheels are effectively castors to stop the boot being dragged on the floor.
If you drive like a lunatic and your back end often comes out - you need to stop driving like a tit. In ten years of driving this has never happened to me and I do enjoy the odd B road thrash now and again. A slightly weaker argument is that with ESP you are much less likely to end up deid these days.
I understand the point fully, and there is some merit to it, but ultimately if you find yourself in the situation that your back end is flicking out (and its not due to ice / diesel spill etc etc) its your driving that needs adjusting - not the tyres!
Couldn't put it any better. I remember TT and others making the point for new on the rear and like others I can appreciate the reasoning. But in the real world, grip (or more important lack of it) is more evident from the front wheels, particularly when it is wet. As has been said, if you are driving so hard that you are concerned that the rear end will step out, you need to adjust your driving. I think that sometimes on this forum we are guilty of over analysing things. In theory it makes sense to put the new tyres on the back, but in practice they're much better on the front. Just my opinion
-
Option 1.As recomended by my garage. :smiley: :wink:
Thank you.... A professional opinion :grin:
Dammit! :)
The cynic in me says they will see quicker repeat business this way ;)
Not really.... the rate of wear will still be exactly the same. :nerd:
-
A few months ago I replaced my front tyres and the difference was astonishing. More confident acceleration, steering much sharper in the wet and dry, braking distance much reduced.
Last week I changed my back tyres. Certainly a little sharper in turning but not the same leap in driveability as I got when I changed the fronts.
If you want to mitigate against disasters you should line your houses with lead, fill an underground store with canned goods and put your freshest tyres on the back. Alternativly you will see the best real life return for your investment by putting the new tyres on the front and not letting the back go bald.
When my front tyres are down to 2mm I replace them. When the back goes down to 2mm I replace them. No faffing about. Simples :cool:
-
Option 1.As recomended by my garage. :smiley: :wink:
Thank you.... A professional opinion :grin:
Dammit! :)
The cynic in me says they will see quicker repeat business this way ;)
Not really.... the rate of wear will still be exactly the same. :nerd:
How come? Only other powerful front wheel drive car I had was a Mondeo ST24, and I used to chew through the fronts twice as quick as the rears.
Acceleration (and deceleration) is what runs tread down, and its particularly fast on front wheel drive cars. I was much more frugal with my tyres in my Z3 even though I got the back end out frequently - just because I didnt actually accelerate and decelerate as hard.
Probably comparing apples with oranges, but I do drive nearly 20k miles a year so I know what works for me :)
-
A few months ago I replaced my front tyres and the difference was astonishing. More confident acceleration, steering much sharper in the wet and dry, braking distance much reduced.
Last week I changed my back tyres. Certainly a little sharper in turning but not the same leap in driveability as I got when I changed the fronts.
If you want to mitigate against disasters you should line your houses with lead, fill an underground store with canned goods and put your freshest tyres on the back. Alternativly you will see the best real life return for your investment by putting the new tyres on the front and not letting the back go bald.
When my front tyres are down to 2mm I replace them. When the back goes down to 2mm I replace them. No faffing about. Simples :cool:
+1
-
A few months ago I replaced my front tyres and the difference was astonishing. More confident acceleration, steering much sharper in the wet and dry, braking distance much reduced.
Last week I changed my back tyres. Certainly a little sharper in turning but not the same leap in driveability as I got when I changed the fronts.
If you want to mitigate against disasters you should line your houses with lead, fill an underground store with canned goods and put your freshest tyres on the back. Alternativly you will see the best real life return for your investment by putting the new tyres on the front and not letting the back go bald.
When my front tyres are down to 2mm I replace them. When the back goes down to 2mm I replace them. No faffing about. Simples :cool:
so at some point you will have brand new tyres on the front and possibly only 3mm on the rears..... :lipsrsealed: :rolleyes:
-
Option 1.As recomended by my garage. :smiley: :wink:
Thank you.... A professional opinion :grin:
Dammit! :)
The cynic in me says they will see quicker repeat business this way ;)
Not really.... the rate of wear will still be exactly the same. :nerd:
How come? Only other powerful front wheel drive car I had was a Mondeo ST24, and I used to chew through the fronts twice as quick as the rears.
Acceleration (and deceleration) is what runs tread down, and its particularly fast on front wheel drive cars. I was much more frugal with my tyres in my Z3 even though I got the back end out frequently - just because I didnt actually accelerate and decelerate as hard.
Probably comparing apples with oranges, but I do drive nearly 20k miles a year so I know what works for me :)
Think you have misunderstood me slightly there. I was refering to your post about tyre fitters seeing an increase in business if your changing your rears rather than the fronts. The rate of wear across the four tyres will always be the same..... so they will not see any more or less business :smiley:
-
Think you have misunderstood me slightly there. I was refering to your post about tyre fitters seeing an increase in business if your changing your rears rather than the fronts. The rate of wear across the four tyres will always be the same..... so they will not see any more or less business :smiley:
Oh I seee - yes you're right over the course of ownership the business will be the same :)
Stupid me :D
-
I always thought that they put the new rubber on the back was to minimise the chance of having a blow out or something? Have a blow out on the front tyre is more preferable to having one on the rear.
-
Last time (last month) I went to the garage, there was loads of posters and flyers saying the new tyres to be fitted to the rears!(and loads of rant justifying it).To which I agree!
I was in a horrible crash years ago when my rear steped out big time in the wet and my best tyres were on the front!, so from experience thats where the best ones are going from now on!
-
At my garage there are naked ladies on the walls :)
I think that had more to do with you going too fast for the conditions and heavy braking causing the rear to go light and overtake your front. Nothing to do with 2mm less rubber.
-
A few months ago I replaced my front tyres and the difference was astonishing. More confident acceleration, steering much sharper in the wet and dry, braking distance much reduced.
Last week I changed my back tyres. Certainly a little sharper in turning but not the same leap in driveability as I got when I changed the fronts.
If you want to mitigate against disasters you should line your houses with lead, fill an underground store with canned goods and put your freshest tyres on the back. Alternativly you will see the best real life return for your investment by putting the new tyres on the front and not letting the back go bald.
When my front tyres are down to 2mm I replace them. When the back goes down to 2mm I replace them. No faffing about. Simples :cool:
so at some point you will have brand new tyres on the front and possibly only 3mm on the rears..... :lipsrsealed: :rolleyes:
Yes... like last month.
And do you know what, despite this and the rain and everything I never once even felt the slightest twitch from the back or that the car was anything other than planted. No ESP activating or anything. I wasn't driving like Colin McRae (god rest his soul) but then I wasn't driving like a pensioner either. :tongue:
-
TBH, I'd probably do exactly what ub7rm does - well it was what I always did with my previous car, and I never had any issues whatsoever.
-
My point is its not going to cost you any more or any less by putting the new tryes to the rear... yet its what is suggested by both the fitters and manufacturers.
I think I know who i would trust..... as is the usual case, when you need the grip the most it wont be there :lipsrsealed:
-
but what if you put 4 new tyres on at the same time then you have same grip all round so rear is just as likely to go as the front is lol :undecided: :undecided: :undecided: its a gamble either way id say go on a few track days and get some practice incase the unfortunate does happen :smiley:
-
....
I'm advised by Goodyear Technical, VWRacing, and my VW dealer, to put the best tyres on the rear on the Mk5 GTI.
When the fronts wear down to 2mm, I move the rears to the front axle and new treads on the rear. I buy one pair of tyres at a time.
Although I've never got new treads on the front, my Quaife diff coupled with my style of driving don't result in understeer or much wheelspin.