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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Ben Lessani on 04 April 2009, 13:08

Title: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 04 April 2009, 13:08
Hi guys, I know that the immediate solution is to fit MK3/4 rear calipers - but I don't want to if I can avoid it.

It was MOT time and it failed on a few things, notably the rear nearside handbrake which is only at about 60kgf vs. the offside at 120kgf.

I striped the caliper off, wound it back, cleaned up the slides and filed a touch off the edge of the pads and refitted and its the same. I tightened up the cable under the handbrake lever itself, it was marginally better.

For the footbrake, they're perfect and the offside obviously works fine - which is why I cba replacing them.

Is there any way to strip down the caliper and make the handbrake mech work properly?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: MarkS on 05 April 2009, 00:30
I don't mean to be a complete ponce but even though your brakes work fine under foot, surely it'll be better in the long run to fit newer calipers anyway?

And possibly could be less hassle than refurbing the ones you have now?

:)
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: OakeyDoak16v on 05 April 2009, 01:19
Good point. The amount of times i drove to work last winter with my hand brake frozen on is enough to make me want to up grade them this year. It's quite high up on my to do list because of that. :smiley:
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 05 April 2009, 03:32
I don't mean to be a complete ponce but even though your brakes work fine under foot, surely it'll be better in the long run to fit newer calipers anyway?

And possibly could be less hassle than refurbing the ones you have now?

:)

One of my calipers works perfect - so it doesn't need replacing. The other isn't working right. So I have the choice to get a normal MK2 caliper (£60) and have even braking, or I change both calipers to MK3 ones for the sake of a handbrake.

Less hassle, maybe - but if I can just rebuild the mech - I'd rather do that. Then I don't have to piss about in scrapyards finding parts.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: midz16v on 05 April 2009, 08:32
ive changed my mk2 nsr caliper twice now in 3 years,it seems to sieze just after the years warranty runs out.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Dolly on 05 April 2009, 11:21
imo i think its better to change to mk4 or 3 items, im not saying they are going to dramactially improve performance braking wise but the handbrake mechanisums seem to hold up better. i changed my mk2 original callipers for mk4 ones, around 10 years younger and they should be good for a fair few years to come.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 05 April 2009, 13:43
Right.

I do not want MK3 or MK4 calipers

What I want to know is how to sort the weak handbrake on my existing caliper.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: OakeyDoak16v on 05 April 2009, 14:42
Right.

I do not want MK3 or MK4 calipers

What I want to know is how to sort the weak handbrake on my existing caliper.
:grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: ravydav on 05 April 2009, 17:18
Whats your problem with changing to better Mk3 or 4 callipers?

I'd say its a no brainer!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: JC on 05 April 2009, 17:19
I'd give up Ben  :lipsrsealed:

I never had an issue with mine, but i do pop the wheel soff and lube up the mechanism often  :huh:
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 05 April 2009, 17:30
the best you can do is as chuff says really. maybe the mechanisms so gunked up its not moving fully. the spring will be rusty as well no doubt
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: sidecarphil on 05 April 2009, 17:45
i rebuilt some MR2 rear calipers once

never again they were complete c*&t's and they never really worked well after and they leaked after about 4 months !!!

what you have to do is get the caliper in a vice and work the handbrake lever till the piston is screwed out then clean the piston fit new seals and try to get the piston back in by turning it and pushing

honestly mate just buy a new item  :wink: :wink:

heres a link for honda rear calipers

http://www.performanceforum.com/wesvann/honda/brakes/rebuild.html (http://www.performanceforum.com/wesvann/honda/brakes/rebuild.html)
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 05 April 2009, 18:28
I don't have anything against MK3/4 calipers - I just don't want to waste money on them and time trying to find them in a scrapyard - when the calipers I have work fine, bar a gummed up handbrake on one side.

Its not inoperable - its just running at 60% of what it should be, I'm sure a little cleanup will free up the mech and get the handbrake working right.

If the hyd. aspect of the caliper wasn't working - I wouldn't bother. But the handbrake mech should be relatively easy to fix.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 05 April 2009, 18:30
bah your just not scene without mk4 caliper
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: richard s on 05 April 2009, 19:54
there is a post on here somewhere and it is something along the lines of prize out the handbrake arms rub with wet or dry till rust is gone cover with grease and tap back in
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: rubjonny on 06 April 2009, 08:37
if the lever is moving properly then the mech inside the caliper is probably trashed, thanks to someone crushing the life out of the piston in a vice rather than using the correct windback tool.
usually when the mech fails all it does is stick shut, no problem with the force of it just it wont come off on its own
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 06 April 2009, 10:26
I've called a few scrappies and no-one has any MK3s, but he says they've got a few SEATs etc. Do any of those calipers fit?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: MarkS on 06 April 2009, 10:37
I've called a few scrappies and no-one has any MK3s, but he says they've got a few SEATs etc. Do any of those calipers fit?

Don't forget mk4s too mate  :smiley:
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 06 April 2009, 10:47
MK4s are a no go - I need to fit them asap and don't have time to wait on braided lines.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Diamond Hell on 06 April 2009, 11:50
In the time you've wasted mithering about this in your personal life and on this forum you probably could have earned the £60 to buy a replacement caliper.

Better cost:benefit analysis needed, Ben.

G2 calipers are renowned for seizing handbrake mechs.  This is why people are recommending you fit later calipers that don't suffer with this fault.  That is a permanent solution to your problem.

Sometimes it's worth going the extra mile and fitting the upgrade to avoid repeated regular failures caused by the elderly and poor design of the original - in the long run you'll save time, which = saved money.

Man-up and do the job properly.

Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: midz16v on 06 April 2009, 12:29
i have a set of rear calipers u could have if u want them,there in fife though and i'm no sure if there for a mk2 or 3

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/midz117/001.jpg)
.
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/midz117/003.jpg)

(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/midz117/002.jpg)
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Conker on 06 April 2009, 12:42
...Better cost:benefit analysis needed, Ben.


Hehe, May I recommend that you add  :rolleyes:,  :huh:, or  :smug: to take this to the next level of patronising.

:grin:

Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 06 April 2009, 12:49
Hoop de blah, blah blah blah, something about my tall horse.

Man-up and do the job properly.

I know new calipers are easier to fit, but if someone here had some experience of fixing the weak handbrake - ie. just cleaning up a part of the mech to fix it, then it would be substantially easier, quicker and cheeeeeeeper!

Ps. Stop saying man-up :lipsrsealed:

@ midz16v

They look like MK3 units, can't see an exposed spring anywhere. You're a good 80 miles from me - what monies do you want for them?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: midz16v on 06 April 2009, 14:49
nowt mate thats how much they cost me
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 06 April 2009, 17:52
Just a quick one, what stops you using the MK4 calipers with a solid brake line from the M12 fitting on the caliper to M10 on the car? What movement is there between the caliper and the rear beam?

Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Diamond Hell on 06 April 2009, 17:59
Although you're very small from my tall horse, I think you'll find that you're talking about a sliding caliper set up. 

That's why you need to fit a flexible hose, because the caliper slides thus it moves, see - hard lines will fatigue if put in this situation.

Now, man-up and get on with the job, Lessani.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 06 April 2009, 18:25
Pffftftftfttt :tongue:

Only reason I'm messing about is

1. because I'm cheap,
2. because I'm cheap,
3. I have 1 more day to get the MOT retested!

Right, tell you what. I grabbed a pair of MK4 units from the scrappers today. I don't have time to wait on delivery of the crappy adaptors, so I pinched a couple of rubber flexi's from a motor factor friend 10mm female to 10mm female.

I was thinking, as a quick hack for the MOT (and probably for the rest of time because I'm lazy). I can flare 12mm male and 10mm male fittings onto a mini length of brake pipe, thread that into the caliper and then thread the flexi onto the standard fittings.

Is there any real dodgyness doing it this way?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Diamond Hell on 06 April 2009, 19:32
 :undecided:

I don't *think* so - some installations of the 280mm front brakes (those you're too cheap to fit to your car) have a short section of hard-line before the flexi.  The important thing is to allow the caliper to slide, with a flexi-hose taking up the slide, not a hard-line.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 06 April 2009, 19:52
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/calioer.png)

Basically, something along the lines of that.

If I can find a place which sells a banjo > 10mm male, or any 12mm to 10mm fitting, then I'll be sorted - after all, that's all that's in the goodridge pack.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Conker on 06 April 2009, 20:59
:undecided:

I don't *think* so - some installations of the 280mm front brakes (those you're too cheap to fit to your car) have a short section of hard-line before the flexi.  The important thing is to allow the caliper to slide, with a flexi-hose taking up the slide, not a hard-line.


This post doesn't count - You didn't say "man-up".

Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Diamond Hell on 06 April 2009, 21:44
Count for what?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Conker on 06 April 2009, 22:15
Count for what?


I don't know.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Diamond Hell on 06 April 2009, 22:51
Just checking.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 06 April 2009, 22:54
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q171/blessani/calioer.png)

Basically, something along the lines of that.

If I can find a place which sells a banjo > 10mm male, or any 12mm to 10mm fitting, then I'll be sorted - after all, that's all that's in the goodridge pack.


?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Diamond Hell on 06 April 2009, 23:08
It's the usual suspects.  Lots of different auto-factors.  Personally I think it's unlikely you'll find what you're after as it's not a 'standard' part.  Why would any 'normal' motor mechanic be using what you're describing in a day to day repair?

Don't you have anywhere like Merlin Motorsport near you?  They'll make up Goodridge hoses while you wait.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 07 April 2009, 00:17
I can make that piece, I've got 12mm and 10mm pipe fittings and a flaring tool - I'm just wondering how safe it would be in the long term.

I know of a company called AG Motorsport, but they're a bit of a distance. There's another called Drivers who are local, they sell performance parts, but not 100% sure on whether they'll make up hoses. Good idea though, I'll call them tommorow.

Edit: http://www.goodridge.net/uk/distributors.htm Looks like no.

I've got the std MK4 flexi's with about 5" of hard line before I cut it off, but apparently you can't use a flaring tool on the OE hard lines - because their ally or something?

Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: danny_p on 07 April 2009, 00:46
long term it looks sub optimal   tap the m12 fitting so the m10 fitting wil screw in would be my first line of attack in botch mode
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 07 April 2009, 19:03
I gave in to convention - TSR are posting me out some new Goodridge hoses tommorow - so they'll be nice and safe.

I've fitted new hard lines on the rear beam whilst I was at it - biggest pain in the arse ever, the flexi > hard line connection points couldn't be a worse place. That, coupled with rusted rounded fittings led to me topping up the swear box a fair bit.

My brake fluid hasn't been changed in many many years, so that should firm things up a bit too.

I'm going to disassemble the dodgy caliper - see if I can give others an insight into fixing the h/b mech.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Village Idiots on 08 April 2009, 09:56
Congratulations, folks.
Best thread I've read in ages.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Diamond Hell on 08 April 2009, 09:59
There's nothing like a group of people publicly beating someone into submission, is there?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 08 April 2009, 10:07
*Sat waiting with his overalls on for the postie to arrive so he can go fit his stupid brakes and make the deadline for today's MOT!*

DH - you suckers gave me no choice, if you all weren't so stupid and taught my stupid ass how to fix up my existing mech I'd be £60 better off right now :( Plus, if I'd given in on the first page, then I'd ruin my record of hitting 5+ pages on a single thread with a really straightforward answer :laugh:

Why did VW ever use a stupid Banjo fitting!
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 08 April 2009, 11:05
Have brake hoses ... will travel!
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: g60pops on 08 April 2009, 18:52
did you get it sorted then?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 08 April 2009, 19:22
Sure did.

Check this thread (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=49436.msg979860#new) in about 60 mins and I should have it written up ;)
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 12 April 2009, 09:47
dont suppose you weighed the mk2 and mk4 calipers before fitting?
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 12 April 2009, 09:55
Afraid I didn't, but there wasn't much in it.
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 12 April 2009, 09:59
cool, not realy worth it then to save weight.

you see folks on these forums raving about them being lighter, but never say by how much!
Title: Re: Rear caliper handbrake overhaul
Post by: Ben Lessani on 12 April 2009, 10:03
Well, every little countsTM :wink: