GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: wil0 on 18 March 2009, 23:35
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Hi, ive got a 16v oak green gti, im considering doing a engine conversion over the summer, basically i want a bit more power, reliability and hopefully fuel economy. Im at uni down in plymouth and its a 300 mile trip from hertfordshire. At the moment i can maybe do 32mpg if im really careful, this makes it too expensive to bring up and down to plymouth really. Ive got a bit of a second gear crunch, and generally the engine needs a few bits done to it, so i thought i might put in a 16v abf in it instead? ive heard that some people have got 40mpg+ out of their mk3 16v engines...
Ive been looking for abf engines from seat toledos, ibizas, vw passats and mk3 gtis but they are pretty hard to find for under £250 and 100,000 miles...
is this the best way to go for performance but still decent fuel economy?
cheers.
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Mate, in a nut shell yes, it is. A 2l bottom end will be a peach in your car, nuff said. It's all about the TORQUE!
Question now of course is how much? :smiley:
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As above, 2.0 is your best bet.
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Just a guess, but i think he is on about putting the complete setup in with digi management etc, not just the bottom end
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Just a guess, but i think he is on about putting the complete setup in with digi management etc, not just the bottom end
Maybe he doesn't realise that you can just swap the bottom end.
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Maybe he's saying he wants better economy too, which he is pretty much guaranteed from the full abf conversion :wink:
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Im thinking along these lines too, is the 2.0 bottom end from the mk3 16v the only one that fits or will the 8v bottom end do too? Im on the verge of getting my 16v head refurbished and if its got to come off then ill be wanting to fit 2.0 as hopefully I will get more low end grunt. Does the head just bolt straight onto one of these without having to modify things??
Any more info/links on this subject would be great!
Thanks Tim
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Yeah, sorry im thinking of doing a full abf conversion with the abf ecu too.
I thought about a 2L bottom end, but id still have the did kr ecu and feuling system, which would make it less economical...
ABF and 2L bottom end are the only two easy(ish) conversions arnt they?
I realise that if i do an ABF conversion im going to have to deal with the nightmare of rewiring alot of things. but i think it will be worth it...
Whats the best way to source a low milage engine cheaply though? ive seen them go for over £350!
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Go for the abf you won't regret it. Took me about a 4 weeks on and off. Definatly get a car you can break yourself as your have all the bits + its loads cheaper in the long run. :smiley:
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Your car is a '91 (According to your sig) so an ABF will drop straight in, and you can just plug the loom into the fusebox... easy peasy!
unfortunately £350-ish seems to be the going rate for ABF's nowadays. looked for one for ages for a mates mk1 and thats just what they seem to go for.
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i paid 450 for my donor car, from which I used the engine, cable change gearbox, ecu, subframe with the 280mm brakes, adjustable steering rack, loom, and the larger twin radiator which fits straight in. Bit of a bargin really. You just need to be lucky in finding one for the right price
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i payed 250 for both my abf donors, as you car is a 91 you can't really call the wireing wireing it's more pluging in depending on what donor you choose.
and don't worry about the immob, a) the gubbing fits nicely b) it's also quite easy to get past
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So what about the fuel system? Is it as easy as just swapping them over in the bay where the main feed comes in with an ABF?
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I thought the post '90 plug and play ABF conversion only applied if the mk2 was an 8v?
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applies to 16v also, same fusebox. easier still as you dont have to swap zaust for a 16v bore item, though you still need to weld a lambda boss onto it somewhere.
with 16v they have high pressure threaded fgittings on the fuel lines, to get around this get the 2 lines between under car pipes and metering head, chop out the threaded fittings from the ends. you're left with a pair of fittings which thread into the k-jet under-car fuel lines with barbed ends that your abf fuel lines push right onto.
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Exellent. i was thinking of doing it in a weekend really. how did everyone find their donors? were they all mk3 16vs? ive been looking on ebay, with no luck...
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mk3 16v is expensive donor.
1) toledo 16v sport bought from auction for £250 with 1 and a bit month mot and a week of tax. sevriced it and drove it for a week then stripped
2) toledo 16v sport bought from scrapyard for £300 shell sold back for £50. stripped in scrappie that day . never used engine tho ended up selling it
3) seat cordoba £280 reserve not met on ebay. 2 weeks late drove down cardiff and bought it for £250 then perswaded TC to drive to cardiff with trailer
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Cheers for that, very helpful. ive been looking at cordobas and toledos, and couldent find any. but now youve pointed it out its obviously the way to go. Would it be easy to make all your money back off selling bits from the car afterwards?
Id hope to do the engine swap over a weekend,i would imagine this is feasable?
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I also have a mk2 oak green and looking for more umph, I was fortunate in that I bought it to replace my mk3 16v, then after speaking to rubjonny and danny_p they convinced me to go all out and do the conversion. Don't get much free time with work and all but I've got the workshop now and slowly things are coming together. I'm hoping to get it done in a week as I've never done anything this mechanicaly involved before...
Here's a link you might find useful
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/SEAT+CORDOBA/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-112-240-4294956146-4294966202/advert.action?R=200910330161630&distance=329&postcode=DD4+6TB&channel=CARS&make=SEAT&model=CORDOBA&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=1996&vehicleRegLetter=P
If it weren't 330miles away from me I'd be down there as mine has 140k on it...
Also Toyotech has a how to guide that I'll see if I can dig out for you
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http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=97434
Man, if I'd totally buy this tomorrow..
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/SEAT+TOLEDO/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-12-112-240-4294963342-4294966202/advert.action?R=200910330173017&distance=389&postcode=DD4+6TB&channel=CARS&make=SEAT&model=TOLEDO&min_pr=&max_pr=1000&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=1996&vehicleRegLetter=P
Hope this is of use... :wink:
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Cracking low miles, IF they're genuine.
Not sure whether the wear inside the car tallies with the miles. The thing with the Toledo is that the loom is integrated - it's got lights etc all in it. The Golf3 loom doesn't have these bound up, they're separate. At that price I'd be looking for a Golf3 with some more miles - it's a better set up for your conversion.
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Cracking low miles, IF they're genuine.
Not sure whether the wear inside the car tallies with the miles. The thing with the Toledo is that the loom is integrated - it's got lights etc all in it. The Golf3 loom doesn't have these bound up, they're separate. At that price I'd be looking for a Golf3 with some more miles - it's a better set up for your conversion.
Yeah, the thought danced across my mind, 41k or 141k :grin:
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be different,
get a mk4 TDI lump :shocked:
torque and decent MPG :afro:
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be different,
get a mk4 TDI lump :shocked:
torque and decent MPG :afro:
Make sure it's a 110bhp motor as they're more simple and seem to actually get better MPG than the PD motors though.
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whole tolado loom can be used in 90 speck car the intergarted lighting loom can ether be stripped out or replace the existing Golf 2 lighting loom.
cordoba looms are a bit more of a pita to extract and use, tho they will work
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excellent words of advice from everyone. ive got to sell my mini first to fund it, but then il probably buy a toledo and do the swap.
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excellent words of advice from everyone. ive got to sell my mini first to fund it, but then il probably buy a toledo and do the swap.
sounds wise :wink: let me know how you get on as I'm doing mine in next few weeks. That's if I stop buying random vw things that are cool, yet none the less unrelated to my project :grin:
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Ah, mine wont be till the summer. Im at uni now, and im back for easter for 4 weeks next week, so il sell my mini then... buy a toledo as soon as i get back for summer, and do it over the space of a week i suppose.
anyone want a nice tahiti blue 94 mini mayfair? ;)
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Ah, mine wont be till the summer. Im at uni now, and im back for easter for 4 weeks next week, so il sell my mini then... buy a toledo as soon as i get back for summer, and do it over the space of a week i suppose.
anyone want a nice tahiti blue 94 mini mayfair? ;)
Ah, well stick in at uni mate and get proper stuck in when you get back.
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From the looks of it the conversion that chap has done on ed38 seems the easiest - just changing literally the head and block for the ABF and retaining everything else. Doesnt look like rocket science to do either. Could be the way forward for me :wink:
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Best bet is to fit the abf management too if you can. much better setup especially if you find a donar car to take all the bits off. :smiley:
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makes about the samp power but with ABF managment there is soo much less chance of killing the motor, and it's nicer to drive when not in a hurry and better on fuel as well.
my syncro gets into the mmid 40's on a run quite easly and most of those runs are 80mph
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yeah, im definitely getting a donor car. Im after the economy aswell as the power. il be 21 by the time i do the swap, and have 3 years no claims, so it shouldent *hopefully* affect my insurance that much.
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makes about the samp power but with ABF managment there is soo much less chance of killing the motor, and it's nicer to drive when not in a hurry and better on fuel as well.
my syncro gets into the mmid 40's on a run quite easly and most of those runs are 80mph
Fair do`s, that sounds like a better idea though how easy is it to plum the 16v existing KR fuel system to the new ABF fuel system - is it just a matter of swapping it over at the main feed? Also heard a rumour that the ABF engine is a little taller? Is this true and would it present any issues closing the bonnet etc
Cheers
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the ABF is a littel bit taller by about 15mm ( for the block itself )
it dosent cause any issues with closeing the bonnet, it's close the small vac line to the airbox on the throttel body just rubs one one of the stiffeners under the bonnet so i just taped it clear, if you had the underbonnet soundproofing you may have to cut a small square out of it at worst or fettel the rear motormount to lower it ( i'm on g60 mounts whitch are competly diffrent so not option )
as for fuel pluming its easy cut feed an return lines to sutable length and conenct to rubber lines comeing off fuel rail, as won't have ridges on use 2 fule pipe clips to be certan as cut line will have no ridges on the end, dont us jubille clips
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Ok but then Im into changinging engine looms and ECU too if I go for the ABF fuelling system right?
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As far as I can make out, it's a worthwhile stretch.
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I used the toledo front subframe and dropped the whole lot in, hubs as well. Only issue with this is it made the engine sit higher so i'd use the mk2 subframe or modify the rear engine mount :smiley:
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I used the toledo front subframe and dropped the whole lot in, hubs as well. Only issue with this is it made the engine sit higher so i'd use the mk2 subframe or modify the rear engine mount :smiley:
So what does it go like then in comparison to the old 1.8 KR??
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Apologies for slightly off topic but does anyone have the wiring diagrams for the KR and the ABF?
cheers
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i posted up all the info ever needed to wire in a abf soem time ago