Just had a letter from VW saying that I need my cambelt changed as my car is 4 years old this month despite the fact that its only on 42k. (a full 18k less than the recommended mileage). Now is there any need to change it after 4 years or am I perfectly safe to wait till I git to big 60k? Im trying to save some money for a Miltek and having to get this changed is going to make a massive dent in that effort.
Iv also been given a voucher thing to get it done for £299 all in.
it funny the owners manual states 120k or 7 years???
What the crack with getting the water pump changed aswell? I believe its recommended that it be done at the same time? VW have not mentioned the changing of the water pump in this letter.it funny the owners manual states 120k or 7 years???
You sure your reading the right manual? :laugh:
What the crack with getting the water pump changed aswell? I believe its recommended that it be done at the same time? VW have not mentioned the changing of the water pump in this letter.
Just had a letter from VW saying that I need my cambelt changed as my car is 4 years old this month despite the fact that its only on 42k. (a full 18k less than the recommended mileage). Now is there any need to change it after 4 years or am I perfectly safe to wait till I git to big 60k? Im trying to save some money for a Miltek and having to get this changed is going to make a massive dent in that effort.
Iv also been given a voucher thing to get it done for £299 all in.
Yours is 05 aswell isnt it RR?
....
I've just had mine done at 62k miles - The whole cambelt kit plus water pump plus fuel filter.
I've got a £290 voucher to give away but you'd have to come to my dealer in Dorchester to use it.
^^^^
Alan - £375 is the normal VW dealer price (I'm told) and £290 the voucher price that VW dealers are able to offer.
....
I've just had mine done at 62k miles - The whole cambelt kit plus water pump plus fuel filter.
Did you manage to get any pix of the old belt and tensioners? If you still have the old belt, if you can turn it inside out, so that the teeth are pointing outwards, and get a closeup of between the teeth - I'd be much obliged. :smiley:
T_T - My spare voucher (I was given the discount without the voucher) is valid "90 days from 11th Feb 09" and only at Dorchester. If you are at an appropriate mileage etc you are welcome to use it. PM/email me if so.
:afro:
....
I've just had mine done at 62k miles - The whole cambelt kit plus water pump plus fuel filter.
Did you manage to get any pix of the old belt and tensioners? If you still have the old belt, if you can turn it inside out, so that the teeth are pointing outwards, and get a closeup of between the teeth - I'd be much obliged. :smiley:
....No pix of the old belt and tensioners - I went into town for a few hours and left them to it. When I got back I was told that the cambelt kit and waterpump had to be sent back to VW or they'd have to make an extra charge. To be fair to them they did offer to show me the old one but I was keen to move on by that time. I've got the fuel pump though (and my daughter wonders what the heck it is!). I don't now remember exactly what but I had other things on my mind that day.
Sorry - I failed you on that one.
OK, no worries. I'm sure Loaders would have told you of any abnormal wear, or if they were close to completely failing.
So do you notice any difference with the new fuel filter?
So just to confirm the thread does the belt need changing after 4 years on a gti? Im on the lookout at the mo and most of the cars in my price range are around 05 or 55, should i check if the belt has been done?
So just to confirm the thread does the belt need changing after 4 years on a gti? Im on the lookout at the mo and most of the cars in my price range are around 05 or 55, should i check if the belt has been done?
In theory yes although the 5 dealers i asked for my 4th year (35k) service all said no?
VW ADVISE that the cambelt is changed at 4 years OR 60k.. whichever comes first..
Its down to you as the owner to decide if you want it doing or not. If you choose not, then the dealer should make a note of it on their system, just for future ref.
also to do with that voucher.. it may only be valid at that dealer.. sometimes with mailers, dealers are able to buy into offers VW bring out.. maybe that was one, and this other dealer wasnt part of it. Also you may find a difference in labour costs. Id get you a quote, but it would be cheaper and poss down to that reason.
whats this fuel filter? And does anyone have a partnumber? I'm getting my cam belt, water pump etc done for circa £250 at a local Indy.
VW ADVISE that the cambelt is changed at 4 years OR 60k.. whichever comes first..
Its down to you as the owner to decide if you want it doing or not. If you choose not, then the dealer should make a note of it on their system, just for future ref.
also to do with that voucher.. it may only be valid at that dealer.. sometimes with mailers, dealers are able to buy into offers VW bring out.. maybe that was one, and this other dealer wasnt part of it. Also you may find a difference in labour costs. Id get you a quote, but it would be cheaper and poss down to that reason.
....It's exactly as Caz says - At least it is at my VW dealer's.
I've recently had mine done at 60k miles - Full kit including rollers etc plus water pump plus fuel filter. It's not worth risking leaving it because it could be extremely expensive otherwise.
:afro:
Anyone got an idea on that fuel filter, I thought they were just on a diesel.
whats this fuel filter? And does anyone have a partnumber?
I'm getting my cam belt, water pump etc done for circa £250 at a local Indy.
Anyone got an idea on that fuel filter, I thought they were just on a diesel.
It's just by the rear axle. You need to get under the car to change it.
http://www.golfmkv.net/blog/archives/10
I had my car in for a MOT last week and got told by the dealer that the GTI was due a cambelt change as it was four years old. The car has only covered 39k and to be fair I think it is a little extreme to be looking at a cambelt right now, just feels as if it is another excuse to extract another bucket load of cash from me. :sad:
It will have to wait until at least the summer anyway since it costs so much money. It seems every time I get a new car that magic cambelt figure gets earlier and earlier. Must be the only component they can't manage to make last a bit longer. :grin:
I understand what your saying, and it will get done as soon as it can be afforded. The point I am trying to make is, how is it that over the years these things have suddenly slipped forward several years and many thousand of miles. 10 years ago cars were going on to 60k and over 5 years before they changed them. And here we are surely with new and better ways to actually produce the same item with modem technologies and methods? It just feels like car dealers are making new ways to extract money from you time and time again.
I understand what your saying, and it will get done as soon as it can be afforded. The point I am trying to make is, how is it that over the years these things have suddenly slipped forward several years and many thousand of miles. 10 years ago cars were going on to 60k and over 5 years before they changed them. And here we are surely with new and better ways to actually produce the same item with modem technologies and methods? It just feels like car dealers are making new ways to extract money from you time and time again.
....T_T would be able to explain in more detail why but as vehicle technology changes, so do factors regarding servicing. Some parts need to be changed earlier and others later than before.
If you think negatively and are full of mistrust of every car dealer (and indeed anyone else), then you'll both feel negative and encourage mistrust from others.
I understand what your saying, and it will get done as soon as it can be afforded. The point I am trying to make is, how is it that over the years these things have suddenly slipped forward several years and many thousand of miles. 10 years ago cars were going on to 60k and over 5 years before they changed them. And here we are surely with new and better ways to actually produce the same item with modem technologies and methods? It just feels like car dealers are making new ways to extract money from you time and time again.
....T_T would be able to explain in more detail why but as vehicle technology changes, so do factors regarding servicing. Some parts need to be changed earlier and others later than before.
If you think negatively and are full of mistrust of every car dealer (and indeed anyone else), then you'll both feel negative and encourage mistrust from others.
I understand what your saying, and it will get done as soon as it can be afforded. The point I am trying to make is, how is it that over the years these things have suddenly slipped forward several years and many thousand of miles. 10 years ago cars were going on to 60k and over 5 years before they changed them. And here we are surely with new and better ways to actually produce the same item with modem technologies and methods? It just feels like car dealers are making new ways to extract money from you time and time again.
....T_T would be able to explain in more detail why but as vehicle technology changes, so do factors regarding servicing. Some parts need to be changed earlier and others later than before.
If you think negatively and are full of mistrust of every car dealer (and indeed anyone else), then you'll both feel negative and encourage mistrust from others.
Did you get that from a fortune cookie :grin:
It is a little suspect - especially when you consider that this 4 year rule was only introduced in the UK. Not by VW in any other country. Everywhere else it remains (as stated in the service book) inspect after 60k (and I'd personaly always replace at this mileage) and replace at 120k miles. Is our air really that corrosive :rolleyes:
How does that make any sense anyway, who does 120k in 4 years?! Hardly anyone, thats who!
They do , thats why the new TSI is a chain driven unit now.
They do , thats why the new TSI is a chain driven unit now.
Only 15 years behind the times :D
I suppose there must be some design reason to use a belt rather than a chain though
At the end of the day, its down to you as the driver and owner to maintain you vehicle and make decisions. All we, as deales can do is ADVISE you on matters. Thats what VW ask us to do.
The after 4 years condition has only just been brough in, cant remember how many years now, but in a way im sure theyre just tying to cover their backs. Everyone knows what the outcome can be if it isnt changed, and with the material used for the belt, like anything, you just dont know when it could snap.. so why wait?
At the end of the day, its down to you as the driver and owner to maintain you vehicle and make decisions. All we, as deales can do is ADVISE you on matters. Thats what VW ask us to do.
The after 4 years condition has only just been brough in, cant remember how many years now, but in a way im sure theyre just tying to cover their backs. Everyone knows what the outcome can be if it isnt changed, and with the material used for the belt, like anything, you just dont know when it could snap.. so why wait?
I understand what your saying, and it will get done as soon as it can be afforded.
The point I am trying to make is, how is it that over the years these things have suddenly slipped forward several years and many thousand of miles. 10 years ago cars were going on to 60k and over 5 years before they changed them. And here we are surely with new and better ways to actually produce the same item with modem technologies and methods? It just feels like car dealers are making new ways to extract money from you time and time again.
I understand what your saying, and it will get done as soon as it can be afforded. The point I am trying to make is, how is it that over the years these things have suddenly slipped forward several years and many thousand of miles. 10 years ago cars were going on to 60k and over 5 years before they changed them. And here we are surely with new and better ways to actually produce the same item with modem technologies and methods? It just feels like car dealers are making new ways to extract money from you time and time again.
....T_T would be able to explain in more detail why but as vehicle technology changes, so do factors regarding servicing. Some parts need to be changed earlier and others later than before.
If you think negatively and are full of mistrust of every car dealer (and indeed anyone else), then you'll both feel negative and encourage mistrust from others.
I understand what your saying, and it will get done as soon as it can be afforded. The point I am trying to make is, how is it that over the years these things have suddenly slipped forward several years and many thousand of miles. 10 years ago cars were going on to 60k and over 5 years before they changed them. And here we are surely with new and better ways to actually produce the same item with modem technologies and methods? It just feels like car dealers are making new ways to extract money from you time and time again.
....T_T would be able to explain in more detail why but as vehicle technology changes, so do factors regarding servicing. Some parts need to be changed earlier and others later than before.
If you think negatively and are full of mistrust of every car dealer (and indeed anyone else), then you'll both feel negative and encourage mistrust from others.
Did you get that from a fortune cookie :grin:
It is a little suspect - especially when you consider that this 4 year rule was only introduced in the UK. Not by VW in any other country. Everywhere else it remains (as stated in the service book) inspect after 60k (and I'd personaly always replace at this mileage) and replace at 120k miles. Is our air really that corrosive :rolleyes:
The service advisor at your Volkswagen dealership will advise you if, due to prevailing conditions, your vehicle will require more frequent work.
The work described there is correct at the time of going to print. For technical reasons, subsequent changes are possible.
Your Volkswagen dealership has the most up to date information, and will inform you if additional work is required on your car . . .
. . . additional maintenance jobs have to be carried out, depending on the conditions and environment in which your vehicle is used . . .
How does that make any sense anyway, who does 120k in 4 years?! Hardly anyone, thats who!
It seems to be a big issue this cambelt on modern 4-cyl engines! I know my brother had the same with his Fabia vRS
My last two cars (Z3 2.2 and Mondeo 2.5 V6) both had cam chains - never need changing. The only things I changed on the Z3 in 100k miles was the break pads and discs. Why can't they make cars like this anymore!? :(
They do , thats why the new TSI is a chain driven unit now.
Only 15 years behind the times :D
I suppose there must be some design reason to use a belt rather than a chain though
Engineering cost being one, modern day 6 pots tend to be chain driven, BMW & VW engineering the only thing they share is the 'W', chains also stretch over a period of time and need replacement,
2 thing's people should never skimp on or overlook - cambelts & tyres, both have one thing in common rubber with a shelf/use life.
At the end of the day, its down to you as the driver and owner to maintain you vehicle and make decisions. All we, as deales can do is ADVISE you on matters. Thats what VW ask us to do.
The after 4 years condition has only just been brough in, cant remember how many years now, but in a way im sure theyre just tying to cover their backs. Everyone knows what the outcome can be if it isnt changed, and with the material used for the belt, like anything, you just dont know when it could snap.. so why wait?
Who still quotes 120k miles/180k kilometers for a timing belt change? What proof do you actually have? :rolleyes:
How does that make any sense anyway, who does 120k in 4 years?! Hardly anyone, thats who!
So you have never heard of some drivers doing 30k miles a year?! :rolleyes:
I agree with that. But what is suspicious is why VW have suddenly changed it to 4 years in the UK but not worldwide?
Yes its part rubber, not strawberry lace! Unless its been contaminated by oil the belts will last much longer than 4 years.
That said I guess there is an argument that frequent starts more typical of low mileage are harder on the belt than constant driving high mileage.
5-6 years, 60k is a sensible time to change.
If they were nylon belts I could see the sense but ASFAIK they are not (on the 2.0T FSI anyway).
Thanks to long life servicing VW are not seeing as much service related monies coming through the door and have changed the belt schedule to generate a bit more cashflow.
I appreciate some of you are taking the safe road without question, and in the words of our resident philosopher, ETTO, hail mary etc. But if VW changed it to 3 years? 2 years? would you still blindly follow this advice without question? Maybe wonder why this change in schedule has not been implemented world wide?
If it is the case that belts are now failing earlier than expected and there is a sound technical reason why VW have implemented this change then you still have to ask the question why are VW now churning out shyte belts? Why are we taking a step backwards here?
Right so basically stay clear of VW and Vauxhall? :D
Right so basically stay clear of VW and Vauxhall? :Dthey are utterly soul-less pieces of turds, and you will die of boredom at the wheel! :evil:
At the end of the day, its down to you as the driver and owner to maintain you vehicle and make decisions. All we, as deales can do is ADVISE you on matters. Thats what VW ask us to do.
The after 4 years condition has only just been brough in, cant remember how many years now, but in a way im sure theyre just tying to cover their backs. Everyone knows what the outcome can be if it isnt changed, and with the material used for the belt, like anything, you just dont know when it could snap.. so why wait?
You are so right there Caz - and quite brainy for a lass (dons flack jacket and runs for cover! :evil: :evil: :evil:). :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
Who still quotes 120k miles/180k kilometers for a timing belt change? What proof do you actually have? :rolleyes:
My service book, printed in 2004. If you are that distrustful I will scan it tomorrow.
I do of course accept that things change as more real world information becomes available.
And as I've stated in most of my posts I think 60k / 5 years ish is a more appropriate timescale.
I don't agree with VW's published 120k change as that is far too long IMO, but neither do I accept that 4 years is appropriate.
How does that make any sense anyway, who does 120k in 4 years?! Hardly anyone, thats who!
So you have never heard of some drivers doing 30k miles a year?! :rolleyes:
That was a little tounge in cheek, but most people don't choose GTI's as mile munchers. I suspect that a very low proportion of GTI's do that sort of mileage :wink:
I strongly disagree with your comment that it is only VW UK who have downwards revised to the 4 year mark!
Yes its part rubber, not strawberry lace! Unless its been contaminated by oil the belts will last much longer than 4 years.
Disagree again. OK, I accept that oil contamination on a rubber belt is going to cause issues, but then any 'oil leak' is way outside the scope of 'routine maintenance' or 'scheduled servicing'. Oil leaks, and their co-related problems need repairing under a term such as 'unscheduled repairs'.
As has been repeatedly said, rubber naturally deteriorates over time due to the natural atmosphere. Ozone is one of the worst causes of rubber deterioration, and then closely followed is oxygen. Now if you want to kill off all human and animal life on this planet by removing the natural 20% of oxygen present in the earths atmosphere - then you are probably a better scientist than Steven Hawkins, and all the other boffins combined! So, in the interests of preserving life, I would rather keep that oxygen in the atmosphere, and continue to bite the bullet and replace rubber components every 4-6 years! :tongue:
That said I guess there is an argument that frequent starts more typical of low mileage are harder on the belt than constant driving high mileage.
I do tend to agree with that. But what about the 'boy racer' who thrashes his car. Or the idiot who thinks it is cool to rev the engine over 3000rpm without any load, or the doddery old farts who never get the car warm enough to burn off any atmospheric contaminents away (and these not necessarily need to be 'frequent start' or 'short journey' - they can actually be long journeys, but are just too scared of exceeding 2,000 rpms, incase it uses more fuel or some other stupid reasons these slow cnuts seem to use). Because all these scenarios will also have a negative effect on the longevitiy of the belt.
Brilliant - thanks :smiley:5-6 years, 60k is a sensible time to change.
Again, I don't mind agreeing with that - but providing you take into account my other concerns raised.
If they were nylon belts I could see the sense but ASFAIK they are not (on the 2.0T FSI anyway).
WTF are you on about? :shocked: Timing belts have NEVER used nylon - have you been wearing your grannies tights? :evil: All timing belts use continuous strands of kevlar or aramid as a strengthening 'spine', and are simply encased in rubber. But the teeth are generally devoid of any continuous reinforcement - which is why the teeth shear off.
Thanks to long life servicing VW are not seeing as much service related monies coming through the door and have changed the belt schedule to generate a bit more cashflow.
That is just a cynical, ill-informed POV.
I appreciate some of you are taking the safe road without question, and in the words of our resident philosopher, ETTO, hail mary etc. But if VW changed it to 3 years? 2 years? would you still blindly follow this advice without question? Maybe wonder why this change in schedule has not been implemented world wide?
You still have no proof that 'worldwide' VWs interval is still 120,000 miles! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
But you now seem to be verging on the rediculous - afterall, what evidence can you provide that either VW, or ANY manufacturer has ever recommended, or might even be considering altering the schedule to 3 years? Absolutely none. :rolleyes:
If it is the case that belts are now failing earlier than expected and there is a sound technical reason why VW have implemented this change then you still have to ask the question why are VW now churning out shyte belts? Why are we taking a step backwards here?
First, Volkswagen do NOT make timing belts. They use ContiTech, probably one THE most highly regarded timing belt manufacturer in the world! :smug:
Next, VWs own 120,000 miles change interval was just pure 'pigs might fly' - simply to artificially create to the motoring press and fleet managers of how cheap their cars were to maintain. Once the Mk5 Golf GTI, and all the associated TFSI engine users 'honeymoon period' was over with the press and fleet managers - then VW sensibly revised their cam belt change intervals to co-incide with the industry standard norms.But you still completely miss the point. A cam belt change is . . . .
'preventative maintenance' ! ! ! !
At the end of the day, its down to you as the driver and owner to maintain you vehicle and make decisions. All we, as deales can do is ADVISE you on matters. Thats what VW ask us to do.
The after 4 years condition has only just been brough in, cant remember how many years now, but in a way im sure theyre just tying to cover their backs. Everyone knows what the outcome can be if it isnt changed, and with the material used for the belt, like anything, you just dont know when it could snap.. so why wait?
You are so right there Caz - and quite brainy for a lass (dons flack jacket and runs for cover! :evil: :evil: :evil:). :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
haha, thanks :smiley: nice to know VW have trianed me well.. and that i actually retain all the information.lol
finding your knowledge interesting though too.. :smiley:
At the end of the day, its down to you as the driver and owner to maintain you vehicle and make decisions. All we, as deales can do is ADVISE you on matters. Thats what VW ask us to do.
The after 4 years condition has only just been brough in, cant remember how many years now, but in a way im sure theyre just tying to cover their backs. Everyone knows what the outcome can be if it isnt changed, and with the material used for the belt, like anything, you just dont know when it could snap.. so why wait?
You are so right there Caz - and quite brainy for a lass (dons flack jacket and runs for cover! :evil: :evil: :evil:). :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
haha, thanks :smiley: nice to know VW have trianed me well.. and that i actually retain all the information.lol
finding your knowledge interesting though too.. :smiley:
Obviously not blonde then! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
So you actually work for a dub stealer? That is good to know! :wink: :smiley:
I strongly disagree with your comment that it is only VW UK who have downwards revised to the 4 year mark!
Call VW UK and ask them if they took the decision to change this independantly or if they were told to change this by VW Germany
Yes its part rubber, not strawberry lace! Unless its been contaminated by oil the belts will last much longer than 4 years.
Disagree again. OK, I accept that oil contamination on a rubber belt is going to cause issues, but then any 'oil leak' is way outside the scope of 'routine maintenance' or 'scheduled servicing'. Oil leaks, and their co-related problems need repairing under a term such as 'unscheduled repairs'.
It is made of strawbery lace?! :shocked:
An oil leak an unscheduled repair? Nah, now you're just being silly.
As has been repeatedly said, rubber naturally deteriorates over time due to the natural atmosphere. Ozone is one of the worst causes of rubber deterioration, and then closely followed is oxygen. Now if you want to kill off all human and animal life on this planet by removing the natural 20% of oxygen present in the earths atmosphere - then you are probably a better scientist than Steven Hawkins, and all the other boffins combined! So, in the interests of preserving life, I would rather keep that oxygen in the atmosphere, and continue to bite the bullet and replace rubber components every 4-6 years! :tongue:
WTF are you on about. 4-6 years. So 5 years is OK....like I suggested then :rolleyes:
Even if you pushed it to 6 years I don't think the rubber is going to degrade that much. CAVEAT - you don't drive like a nob, granny or anything other than a sensible person on average milage. I'M IN NO WAY SUGGESTING you should leave it for 6 years.
That said I guess there is an argument that frequent starts more typical of low mileage are harder on the belt than constant driving high mileage.
I do tend to agree with that. But what about the 'boy racer' who thrashes his car. Or the idiot who thinks it is cool to rev the engine over 3000rpm without any load, or the doddery old farts who never get the car warm enough to burn off any atmospheric contaminents away (and these not necessarily need to be 'frequent start' or 'short journey' - they can actually be long journeys, but are just too scared of exceeding 2,000 rpms, incase it uses more fuel or some other stupid reasons these slow cnuts seem to use). Because all these scenarios will also have a negative effect on the longevitiy of the belt.
I think we're broadly in agreement here. I just don't have the time to list every caveat and exception :sad:
Brilliant - thanks :smiley:5-6 years, 60k is a sensible time to change.
Again, I don't mind agreeing with that - but providing you take into account my other concerns raised.
If they were nylon belts I could see the sense but ASFAIK they are not (on the 2.0T FSI anyway).
WTF are you on about? :shocked: Timing belts have NEVER used nylon - have you been wearing your grannies tights? :evil: All timing belts use continuous strands of kevlar or aramid as a strengthening 'spine', and are simply encased in rubber. But the teeth are generally devoid of any continuous reinforcement - which is why the teeth shear off.
I stand corrected - but the comment came from my understanding that GM tried a nylon/plastic belt. They would snap after 30k aparantly and were swiftly bined. :undecided:
Thanks to long life servicing VW are not seeing as much service related monies coming through the door and have changed the belt schedule to generate a bit more cashflow.
That is just a cynical, ill-informed POV.
I'll come back to that - its the essence of my whole standpoint.
I appreciate some of you are taking the safe road without question, and in the words of our resident philosopher, ETTO, hail mary etc. But if VW changed it to 3 years? 2 years? would you still blindly follow this advice without question? Maybe wonder why this change in schedule has not been implemented world wide?
You still have no proof that 'worldwide' VWs interval is still 120,000 miles! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I never claimed the 120k miles was a world wide thing, I just know thats what it states in my service booklet.
But you now seem to be verging on the rediculous - afterall, what evidence can you provide that either VW, or ANY manufacturer has ever recommended, or might even be considering altering the schedule to 3 years? Absolutely none. :rolleyes:
Read it again to absorb the rhetorical nature of that question.
If it is the case that belts are now failing earlier than expected and there is a sound technical reason why VW have implemented this change then you still have to ask the question why are VW now churning out shyte belts? Why are we taking a step backwards here?
First, Volkswagen do NOT make timing belts. They use ContiTech, probably one THE most highly regarded timing belt manufacturer in the world! :smug:
Next, VWs own 120,000 miles change interval was just pure 'pigs might fly' - simply to artificially create to the motoring press and fleet managers of how cheap their cars were to maintain. Once the Mk5 Golf GTI, and all the associated TFSI engine users 'honeymoon period' was over with the press and fleet managers - then VW sensibly revised their cam belt change intervals to co-incide with the industry standard norms.But you still completely miss the point. A cam belt change is . . . .
'preventative maintenance' ! ! ! !
So we shouldn't believe VW when they say to change at 120k but we should when they say 4 years? I hope that isn't ill informed cynacism :rolleyes:
The thing is we seem to be in broad agreement that 5 years / 60k is sensible.
My issue is not at all with those who want to play it safe, especially with such a critical part. I fully accept and agree that changing the belt early is a good thing....but lets not go nuts.
My issue is with VW changing to 4 years.
In your experience, as a retired mechanic, how many timing belt failed at or around 4 years (lets assume normal milage) and negating outside influences like oil, failure of some other part. I'm talking about plain wear and tear? I suspect none.
Thats why I think they are treating the customers harshly here by "forcing" them to change their belts - at not insignificant cost - earlier than strictly necessary.
At the end of the day, its down to you as the driver and owner to maintain you vehicle and make decisions. All we, as deales can do is ADVISE you on matters. Thats what VW ask us to do.
The after 4 years condition has only just been brough in, cant remember how many years now, but in a way im sure theyre just tying to cover their backs. Everyone knows what the outcome can be if it isnt changed, and with the material used for the belt, like anything, you just dont know when it could snap.. so why wait?
You are so right there Caz - and quite brainy for a lass (dons flack jacket and runs for cover! :evil: :evil: :evil:). :kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
haha, thanks :smiley: nice to know VW have trianed me well.. and that i actually retain all the information.lol
finding your knowledge interesting though too.. :smiley:
Obviously not blonde then! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
:kiss: :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
So you actually work for a dub stealer? That is good to know! :wink: :smiley:
LOL no, not blonde..
And yeah I work for a 'stealer' lol 2 years into it..lol
You know, the more I read this thread, the more it becomes apparant, that for most, I think it's just a lack of knowledge and understanding as to why some people are questioning the cambelt thing..
Thats not to be taken wrong/badly by anyone..
I just think everyone could take a lot of knowledge about of this from Mr T T..
Ok you clever lot...riddle me this.
Why are VW UK reducing the timescales on the cambelt change when VW DE are not? What is so corrosive about our climate that makes our cars more susceptible to rubber wear and tear?
I agree wholeheartedly with Preventive Maintenance, I love looking after my car however at an extra £400 a pop from each MK5, (what was the unit sales in VWs that this applies to?) then thats a whacking amount into the dealer system. Someone else can do the math.
Dont mind paying up, but if this is some jumped up suit in marketing coming up with a lets give the stealers some cash then it makes me a little...errr peeved.
what point are you proving by asking for figures.. :huh:
tbh, i think your barking up the wrong tree.. if you seriously have a problem with the way the vehicle is manufactured, then go to germany and see for yourself or make it yourself, THEN YOU can set the bounderies and take the flack when it all goes wrong.. thats the only way youll undertsand or apparently be happy.
If you think its over priced thats your opinion, I personaly would only be bothered by price if i had a touren or touareg...
Maybes your next car should be a Polo, everything dead cheap on them...
what point are you proving by asking for figures.. :huh:
tbh, i think your barking up the wrong tree.. if you seriously have a problem with the way the vehicle is manufactured, then go to germany and see for yourself or make it yourself, THEN YOU can set the bounderies and take the flack when it all goes wrong.. thats the only way youll undertsand or apparently be happy.
If you think its over priced thats your opinion, I personaly would only be bothered by price if i had a touren or touareg...
Maybes your next car should be a Polo, everything dead cheap on them...
I strongly disagree with your comment that it is only VW UK who have downwards revised to the 4 year mark!
Call VW UK and ask them if they took the decision to change this independantly or if they were told to change this by VW Germany
That's your call, not mine. I certainly don't have any 'problem' with VW UK revising a wildy stupid 120k interval. :wink:
But in all honesty, being as "Volkswagen Group United Kingdom Limited" (which covers VW UK, Audi UK, etc) are a 'wholly owned subsidiary' of "Volkswagen AG" - I honestly doubt that VW UK would be any different to Germany - because the cars all use bits from the same parts bins.
Now you are taking me out of context by mis-quoting me! :wink:
Even if you pushed it to 6 years I don't think the rubber is going to degrade that much. CAVEAT - you don't drive like a nob, granny or anything other than a sensible person on average milage. I'M IN NO WAY SUGGESTING you should leave it for 6 years.
I honestly think you'll be surprised just how badly rubber is affected by aging. Go and look at tyres on a caravan site, or even at an caravan dealer forcourt - many tyres will be knackerd from age-cracking of the surface of the sidewall and tread area, yet they may still have a full 8mm of tread. And if you ever change these types of tyres, the rubber on the outer surface can crumble off on the tyre changer, yet on the inside of the tyre (which hasn't been affected by ozone, UV radiation, etc) will still look brand new.
As the old saying goes, 'if in doubt, it is better to be safe than sorry' . :wink:
If they were nylon belts I could see the sense but ASFAIK they are not (on the 2.0T FSI anyway).
WTF are you on about? :shocked: Timing belts have NEVER used nylon - have you been wearing your grannies tights? :evil: All timing belts use continuous strands of kevlar or aramid as a strengthening 'spine', and are simply encased in rubber. But the teeth are generally devoid of any continuous reinforcement - which is why the teeth shear off.
I stand corrected - but the comment came from my understanding that GM tried a nylon/plastic belt. They would snap after 30k aparantly and were swiftly bined. :undecided:
Ah, now you have got that wrong! The GM issue wasn't the actual belt (they still had the kevlar) - the 'nylon issue' was simply the idler rollers. They actually tried to use a nylon/plastic composite 'working surface' on the idler rollers - and whilst the reasons behind their use was sound, when they failed, they failed big time. The rollers basically 'exploded' without any warning, and without any 'logic' either. The worst engine to be affected was the 1.8 X18XE1 - used in virtually every Vauxhall/Opel product. I have changed many GM nylon rollers at 40k miles, and they look perfect (even when chemically cleaned and inspected under a magnifying glass) - yet the few I changed at 60k looked quite scary, basically riddled with virtually microscopic cracks.
But AFAIK, VAG never used nylon in their cam belt rollers.
Thanks to long life servicing VW are not seeing as much service related monies coming through the door and have changed the belt schedule to generate a bit more cashflow.
That is just a cynical, ill-informed POV.
I'll come back to that - its the essence of my whole standpoint.
Have I missed sommat then? :huh:
I appreciate some of you are taking the safe road without question, and in the words of our resident philosopher, ETTO, hail mary etc. But if VW changed it to 3 years? 2 years? would you still blindly follow this advice without question? Maybe wonder why this change in schedule has not been implemented world wide?
You still have no proof that 'worldwide' VWs interval is still 120,000 miles! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I never claimed the 120k miles was a world wide thing, I just know thats what it states in my service booklet.
Huh - I thought you DID claim it was worldwide? Anyway . . . . flogging a dead horse and all that!
If it is the case that belts are now failing earlier than expected and there is a sound technical reason why VW have implemented this change then you still have to ask the question why are VW now churning out shyte belts? Why are we taking a step backwards here?
First, Volkswagen do NOT make timing belts. They use ContiTech, probably one THE most highly regarded timing belt manufacturer in the world! :smug:
Next, VWs own 120,000 miles change interval was just pure 'pigs might fly' - simply to artificially create to the motoring press and fleet managers of how cheap their cars were to maintain. Once the Mk5 Golf GTI, and all the associated TFSI engine users 'honeymoon period' was over with the press and fleet managers - then VW sensibly revised their cam belt change intervals to co-incide with the industry standard norms.
But you still completely miss the point. A cam belt change is . . . .
'preventative maintenance' ! ! ! !
So we shouldn't believe VW when they say to change at 120k but we should when they say 4 years? I hope that isn't ill informed cynacism :rolleyes:
Interesting train of thought! But personally, I had absolutely no doubt that 120k was unreasonable - so I never believed it anyway. And 4 years isn't a big deal to me either.
And I think that it is common knowledge in the independent motor trade that 120k is really fairy-tale suggestions, simply to 'suck in' prospective new car owners with the (unreasonable) suggestion of low maintenance costs. Because lets face it, how many 'first owners' (ie orginal owner on the cars V5) actually make it any where near 100k miles, let alone 120k miles. Those kinds of mileages will usually be 2nd, 3rd, 4th ect owners. And even with the more suitable and reasonable 60k change, then the vast majority will still be in the 2nd hand market, so still not affecting the orignal owner.
At the end of the day, I just think that the vast majority of the motoring public simply think that modern cars are actually 'maintenance free' - and so when they get advised of an 'expensive job' like a cam belt, they get all ar$ey. Just ask yourself how many of your neighbours you can actually see lifting their bonnets every weekend to check their fluids, and once a month to check their tyre pressures and exterior lights? :lipsrsealed:
The thing is we seem to be in broad agreement that 5 years / 60k is sensible.
My issue is not at all with those who want to play it safe, especially with such a critical part. I fully accept and agree that changing the belt early is a good thing....but lets not go nuts.
Fairy-nuff. But I still don't think that 4years is going 'nuts', especially when you discover the true history of some of these motorpoint and other GTI imports.
4year cambelt change - nuts? No. Cautious? Yep.
5years would be better - but at the risk of still allowing a high proportion to slip through the net, and not actually get done until the 6year/60k service. Beyond that, and it is a slippery slope.My issue is with VW changing to 4 years.
Then VW are damned if they do, damned if they don't!
So what if they just left it at 120k miles, and just said 'fcuk-em' to anyone whos belt went?
Maybe the real crux of the issue is that VW Germany now have some 'real world' data (rather than artificial test labs), and it is showing that the belts are failing maybe around the 60k, 70k, or even 80k mark. So even if the belts were letting go at 80k - then to downwards revise it to 60k miles would still be cutting it way to fine. Afterall, I'm sure we all know that when a cam belt fails, it is catastrophic. But it is very different for a spark plug or air filter - so what if a spark plug fails? OK, you may get a misfire, or you might even get the MIL on, and need a tow-truck. The damage to your wallet will only be the very same cost of the spark plugs - a major difference to the effects of a cam belt failure.
At the end of the day, us mere minions will never know the exact reasons why they decided on 4 years - but we should all at least be glad they have actually been sensible enough to be proactive, even if it does add an extra £300 every 4 years to our maintenance bills. :wink:
In your experience, as a retired mechanic, how many timing belt failed at or around 4 years (lets assume normal milage) and negating outside influences like oil, failure of some other part. I'm talking about plain wear and tear? I suspect none.
None, absolutely none.
But again, you miss the fundamental issue. Relying on 'experience', if I were to say, test spark plugs, and I tried to run them for 100k miles - then I might say find they were failing at 80k miles. So, reacting to that, first, no other damage was done to the engine, and only the plugs themselves were affected (appart from the associated inconveniences of failed plugs) - I then decide to downgrade the miles. Knowing that they failed at 80k, I might say that to lower it to 70k would be pushing it a little close (to account for any 'rogue' plugs that might fail at 70k) - so I change it to 60k miles. So all things considered and duly amended - I happily run for years, covering multiples of 60k miles plug changes, but still get an occasional plug failure. This isn't really a problem.
So looking at the fundamental issues between spark plugs and cam belts - when one fails, it is catastropic, but the other is just a minor inconvenience. Another issue is the ease of changing cam belts and spark plugs. Most reasonably competent peeps would not have any probs changing their own plugs, even at half the recommended schedule (just like many do with oil changes) - but how many 'home mechanics' will do a cambelt change? The vast majority will shy away, and either send it to the stealer, or to an indpendent garage.
Thats why I think they are treating the customers harshly here by "forcing" them to change their belts - at not insignificant cost - earlier than strictly necessary.
I don't really see any 'force' being used. And at the end of the day, then technically, every single item changed during routine maintenance is 'earlier than strictly necessary'! :tongue: But how many peeps do you hear whinging about having their brake pads changed, when they still have 2 or 3 mil of friction lining left? :lipsrsealed:
ive got an 05 gti, was thinking about getting the cam belt done later in the year,
what else would you recommend i get done at the same time? water pump etc?
duffy
:laugh: so we are all agreed that vw uk are robbing, thieving, scaremongering barstewards then? And cos we all know that prevention is better than cure we will all just goose step down to the dealers and hand them £400 ? :laugh:
Cars have maintenance costs - End of story.
lol this whole thread and some ppls comments and attiudes make me laugh..
if you dont like the maintenance of vw or their cars then go buy something else..
or if you really feel the need to have a vw and still moan, take it elsewhere..
I find it quite rude that someone with such knowledge has answered so many question and in soooo much detail and its still not good enough for some of you..
at the end of the way what you get told by dealers is what vw specify, so all in all, i really think you should get in touch with vw themselves. :smiley:
I emailed my dealer to see how much this cam belt change would cost. They replied that VW did not recommend a cam belt change on my car till 100k miles :shocked: Its not like them to miss a chance to make cash either.
So what to make of that then? Seems VW cant get their stories straight :grin:
ive got an 05 gti, was thinking about getting the cam belt done later in the year,
what else would you recommend i get done at the same time? water pump etc?
duffy
....T_T recommended the whole cambelt kit (not just the belt component), the waterpump, and the fuel filter. I took his advice at just over 60k miles and 3.7 years.
:laugh: so we are all agreed that vw uk are robbing, thieving, scaremongering barstewards then? And cos we all know that prevention is better than cure we will all just goose step down to the dealers and hand them £400 ? :laugh:
....Er, no!
Most of the VW dealers are doing this job for £290. Having had a cambelt go on a BMW I can assure you it is expensive - The engine was rebuilt as a consequence.
Cars have maintenance costs - End of story.
Thing is Robin you could replace your brake pads every year / 10k miles. It would be preventative mainenance and all that good stuff but I'm guessing you don't. Because that would be daft. You would be needlessly replacing them outwith a reasonable replacement cycle. Caveat: assuming no boy racer / granny driving etc etc
You can accept the dealers line without question - and it is the safe / conservative way to go. But frankly they are asking you to do work which is unnecessary. In your case i think you had it done at the sensible mileage. But many of us are no where near 60k after 4 years. Its the 4 years I have a beef with.
Of course cars cost money to maintain. But VW, with the 4 years cycle are taking just a little pee out of their more naive customers.
lol this whole thread and some ppls comments and attiudes make me laugh..
if you dont like the maintenance of vw or their cars then go buy something else..
or if you really feel the need to have a vw and still moan, take it elsewhere..
I find it quite rude that someone with such knowledge has answered so many question and in soooo much detail and its still not good enough for some of you..
at the end of the way what you get told by dealers is what vw specify, so all in all, i really think you should get in touch with vw themselves. :smiley:
cambelt wise yes.
they any acception is passats.
on those cambelts due change at 60k.
lol this whole thread and some ppls comments and attiudes make me laugh..
if you dont like the maintenance of vw or their cars then go buy something else..
or if you really feel the need to have a vw and still moan, take it elsewhere..
I find it quite rude that someone with such knowledge has answered so many question and in soooo much detail and its still not good enough for some of you..
at the end of the way what you get told by dealers is what vw specify, so all in all, i really think you should get in touch with vw themselves. :smiley:
Caz,
'its what VW says and you must do it otherwise stop whining ' is pretty much what you are saying?
Since I've contributed a great deal (more than I wanted to!) to this thread I'll take this head on. I think if you read through what TT and I said we are actually broadly in agreement. 120k specified originally by VW is / was ridiculous. 60k is far more sensible and 5 years is a sensible time to change if you don't exceed the mileage in that period.
VW say 4 years. TT was happy enough with this as prevention is better than cure and its nice and safe. I think this time frame is based on a sales/marketing decision rather than purely technical / good sensible time.
Its almost like initially VW said 'Our cars are fantastic, they never need cam belts changed' (as good as, most buyers of new cars don't keep them till they hit 120k)
Then all of a sudden its "Yeah we were just joking when we said that, really you need to change them every 60k (no problem there) or 4 years"
It will upset Red that I'm thinking cynically but....come on! :laugh:
And why is it VW UK thats made this change? How is not worldwide?
On the whole I like VW products, doesn't mean they are perfect now does it? I'm perfectly entitled to moan/berate/praise whatever I want where ever I want thanks very much :huh:
I have a great deal of respect for TT and anyway I think he likes arguing. A lot of usefull information has been wheedled out of him in the course of this that might otherwise not have come out. :wink:
Calling VW will achieve what? I'm not doubting for a second that this is the new policy. I just don't fully agree with the new policy.
If it upsets you so much perhaps you'd like to stop reading after this :undecided:
A very interesting read. My Dad has a 2005 1.4 16v Polo which he has owned from new, his local dealer has mentioned a cambelt change, however the cover has only covered 14k. Should he get it changed or risk leaving it a while longer ??
now what has been not answered is this.,....
WHY have VW UK changed the intervals
and we apparently are the only place on the planet (ok exaggeration maybe) that have to change the cambelt at 4 years?
Is this rip off Britain and if there is no empirical data being provided then why are those who are experts accepting what VW UK say as fact?
(ALL, please.....lets move on.....we know cambelts can break, we know when they do there is major damage, get over it)...now why oh why are we,in the UK, having to change them more than any other VW owning person in the solar system?
A very interesting read. My Dad has a 2005 1.4 16v Polo which he has owned from new, his local dealer has mentioned a cambelt change, however the cover has only covered 14k. Should he get it changed or risk leaving it a while longer ??
Eeeek. The 1.4 petrol engines are VERY well known to wreck the belts - this is widly known. Even if it reaches its 4th birthday with such a low mileage, I really would very strongly recommend he gets the belt done at the 4 year mark. Oh, and tell him to get out more! :wink:
cambelt wise yes.
they any acception is passats.
on those cambelts due change at 60k.
Why are the Piss-rats different? :huh:
It just seems to be that some peeps think a 'German car' should somehow be 'maintenance free'! :rolleyes:
It just seems to be that some peeps think a 'German car' should somehow be 'maintenance free'! :rolleyes:
.... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: - That's worthy of being included in someone's forum sig! Nice 1, T_T :afro:
It just seems to be that some peeps think a 'German car' should somehow be 'maintenance free'! :rolleyes:
.... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: - That's worthy of being included in someone's forum sig! Nice 1, T_T :afro:
Go for it! :grin:
To conclude get it changed when you want.
VW Recommend at 60k OR 4 years (which ever comes sooner) despite the fact that it used to be longer and they changed their minds at a later date.
I agree with Robin.
It becomes even more important to stick to a correct servicing regime when you do a remap etc. If not even shortening the servicing frequency. :smiley:
I recently (6 weeks ago) bought my car from a VW main dealer (05 GTI 40,000 miles) and was told that it had just been serviced prior to the sale and that it was all up to date.
I see what your saying Rhyso, but they are also saying the car is all up to date (which you want if you are buying from a dealer) which it isn't as the cambelt is due . . . .
I've got a feeling they will just refer me to the service book which say 60,000 miles.
As far as i know there isnt anything telling me its 60,000 miles or 4 years in the service book.
Im sure TT will be able to point you to some official literacy which indicates that VW have changed their stance on this. Take this to the dealer.
Just went into Sytner VW to ask about my service history and they said that the cambelt needs "checking" at 5 years or 60,000 miles :huh:.
As my car is only 4.5 years old and covered 40,000 miles they said that this time next year would be fine
I've mailed VW customer services to get their official recommendation but havent got a response yet.
Yeah recommended after 4yrs I believe. Ive got an 06 and the VW garage changed mine at 51k before I bought it in March 2010. If you can get it for £300 id bite their arm off, thats an absolute bargain!