GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: matsu on 18 February 2009, 19:23
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as your probably know and ARE bored by now, I,M looking for a 3dr black golf.
i would love leather but thta becoming not thta big an issue..... i originally wanted dsg. i test drove one out of my price range and loved it.
loved the auto aspect cos i,m lazy at times but also love the paddles for a big of flash and the manual aspect when i want to really enjoy my drive...
BUT.... most of the cars in my price range are either ... red or manual or five door...so i dont seem to be able to reach my complete spec.
will i regret not gettting the dsg if i get impatient and just go manual?
or is that a peice of string question?
driving me crazy.... i,m watching 10cars on ebay at the mo but wont get 11k saved till end of march...
boring everyone stoopid at work and home about my planned obsession
matsu
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dsg is ghey
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Don't be silly, sharpie - That's not very helpful.
matsu - It sounds as if you were impressed by the DSG. If so, surely it's worth waiting to get what you ideally would like - DSG 3-dr GTI's aren't that rare.
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Ignore Sharpie....anyone with a strawberry slimfast in his signature isn't all there :laugh:
*waits for his sig to change to something related to MKV derogatory reposte*
If you like DSG...go for it!
If you like manual...go for it!
just get a GTI quickly 'cos you're driving us all bonkers :grin:
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Like I've said to others on this board, think about what you definitely want with the car and what you would like to have but don't mind. Buying used means you need to compromise as not everyone specced their car. Some just kept it base.
There's a 3dr GTI DSG for £15k DE56 WXH on the VW database. I'm sure you can knock a few grand off the price if you haggle (scrutinise the car to high heaven). Also, you may end up having to look privately.
Don't forget about taking out a loan if you need to cover a £1-2k shortfall.
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Don't be silly, sharpie - That's not very helpful.
it is - it will never be as good as manual. been driving about in an eos tfsi with dsg the other week and it's hesitant to say the least and lacks the precision of a manual.
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^^^^
Don't be silly, sharpie - That's not very helpful.
it is - it will never be as good as manual. been driving about in an eos tfsi with dsg the other week and it's hesitant to say the least and lacks the precision of a manual.
So that's not ghey?
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as your probably know and ARE bored by now, I,M looking for a 3dr black golf.
i would love leather but thta becoming not thta big an issue..... i originally wanted dsg. i test drove one out of my price range and loved it.
loved the auto aspect cos i,m lazy at times but also love the paddles for a big of flash and the manual aspect when i want to really enjoy my drive...
BUT.... most of the cars in my price range are either ... red or manual or five door...so i dont seem to be able to reach my complete spec.
will i regret not gettting the dsg if i get impatient and just go manual?
or is that a peice of string question?
driving me crazy.... i,m watching 10cars on ebay at the mo but wont get 11k saved till end of march...
boring everyone stoopid at work and home about my planned obsession
matsu
Im thinking the same - although I havent test driven a DSG yet, but will do very soon....
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^^^^
Don't be silly, sharpie - That's not very helpful.
it is - it will never be as good as manual. been driving about in an eos tfsi with dsg the other week and it's hesitant to say the least and lacks the precision of a manual.
So that's not ghey?
it's assghey as any other vw car with dsg
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If you drive around in D-mode, the DSG will seem hesitant in many situations but the point is that you can instantly flick into Manual and use the gears in exactly the same way as a conventional Manual.
I accept that DSG isn't to everyone's taste but it's an option and if you are prepared to adapt and learn its many, many options, it's something you'll probably always want in a future car.
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If you drive around in D-mode, the DSG will seem hesitant in many situations but the point is that you can instantly flick into Manual and use the gears in exactly the same way as a conventional Manual.
I accept that DSG isn't to everyone's taste but it's an option and if you are prepared to adapt and learn its many, many options, it's something you'll probably always want in a future car.
i want a gearbox to do two things, change gears when i want to, and change them quickly. you don't get this with dsg.
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Dsg dsg dsg dsg dsg dsg dsg dsg dsg dsg dsg...... Unless it screws up like in less than a few percent of cases else dsg dsg dsg and if you don't like it ..... Learn to drive it :smug:
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i want a gearbox to do two things, change gears when i want to, and change them quickly. you don't get this with dsg.
DSG has the quickest & smoothest gear changes possible doesnt it?
You can still change gears when you want to if you use the paddles etc....
From the way I see it, DSG is a love it or hate it kind of thing. For those who like Auto's, its a great compromise and you get a bit of both. For those who prefer a manual, the the GTI is still offered in a manual config. Its really just down to what you prefer, and your driving style. Just because you prefer one, doesnt mean the other is rubbish.
Im not aiming this directly at you Sharpie, its just a general comment ;)
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Could someone explain more about the 'D' mode, and why its hesitant in certain situations according to your driving style??
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Could someone explain more about the 'D' mode, and why its hesitant in certain situations according to your driving style??
If you are accelerating in 4th for example, it will have 5th ready for the change up. However if you suddenly slow instead it takes it a split second longer to get 3rd as it did not have that one ready.
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Could someone explain more about the 'D' mode, and why its hesitant in certain situations according to your driving style??
'D' behaves more like a standard auto in terms of the speed of the changes. 'S' mode sharpens/quickens everything up and enables use of the paddles.
I have a manual but enjoy driving DSG. I just felt manual was better for me as I know I would get lazy and drive around in 'D' most of the time. Not why I bought a GTI :wink:
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It's never hesitant ..... In my experience IME? Zat a new acroynm? Prolly not ,....
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If you are accelerating in 4th for example, it will have 5th ready for the change up. However if you suddenly slow instead it takes it a split second longer to get 3rd as it did not have that one ready.
Makes perfect sense.
So say you do brake slowly, and you drop down to 3rd, will it get ready with 4th gear - so in other words will it be a little hesitant with every gear you drop down until you come to a complete stop??
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Split second? LOL yep that'll be right.... Still way quicker than the ol' manual fred flintstone method :-)) he says deliberately squirting fuel ok the flames of the old classic debate..reborn.
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If you are accelerating in 4th for example, it will have 5th ready for the change up. However if you suddenly slow instead it takes it a split second longer to get 3rd as it did not have that one ready.
Makes perfect sense.
So say you do brake slowly, and you drop down to 3rd, will it get ready with 4th gear - so in other words will it be a little hesitant with every gear you drop down until you come to a complete stop??
not sure what I said was a good example in retrospect :wink:
although I am guessing it has to make a constant judgement on whether you are accelerating or slowing based on many factors, it does not do the change until it is ready so there is no hesitantly as such and therefore any delay is invisible. The only sort of thing that will make it truly hesitant is braking hard from a reasonable speed to a standstill then imediately mashing the accelerator to set off again, although it pulls in the clutches to stop a stall there is a delay while it gets 1st.
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Split second? LOL yep that'll be right.... Still way quicker than the ol' manual fred flintstone method :-)) he says deliberately squirting fuel ok the flames of the old classic debate..reborn.
400ms I think worst case :wink:
yes still quicker than a manual, but more a failing of the human mind in that stirring the gear lever feels like you are doing something so you dont notice the time slipping by. But sitting there for 400ms doing nothing feels like a lifetime.
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One of the things I did at first (for several thousand miles!) was always drive in D and only pop into S for overtakes and the twisties. I found that in S-mode in tight twisties she would change gear almost directly as if I was using my feet to shift! She'll pop down when braking.
Driver training has taught me as habit to always be in the optimum gear for either instant acceleration or help in braking. No wonder I don't get more than 28 mpg but it's a style I believe in as safer and more enjoyable.
Now I use M and the paddles 95% of the time and just use D for going through urban areas or slow moving traffic jams and S occasionally for fun.
It takes time to become fluidly familiar with all the combinations of options with DSG.
HTH
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yup i think DSG is faster than manual and in a performance car that's what you want, right?
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when yu are braking it doesn't matter that the car changes gears slower as you are slowing down anyway. The speed of gear changes is only critical when you want to accelerate quickly and that's what the DSG does.
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lmao at sharpie!!
hurdy i,m driving everyone bonkers!!
i might have to compromise full stop!!!as one of my tenants has just handed notice on the house.... :angry:
jsut get one room let and the other goes spare. ########haksadfsdfkjsfwahrowiefe!!!!!!!
:angry:
aaaaahhhhh breathe!!
thanks again guys. i,m going to seriously look at my options and i,ll just lurk and ask no more dumb questions :laugh:
ive evn changed the computer screensaver back to a pic of my daughter so i dont get reminded i donty have a gti yet! :cry:
thanks again
matsu
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Im in the same boat as you matsu :(
Im starting to look around, and continuing to save....
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I know I would get lazy and drive around in 'D' most of the time.
Thats what I do.. I do make a conscious effort in driving with paddles sometimes but give up as I forget to change down when stopping or change up when moving off as I'm so used to D-mode :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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I need to get used to the revs and optimum changes with the paddles. Hard coming from a car that did 8600rpm lol
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Are you able to use the paddles to go up/down gears during normal driving, but when coming to a stop, at traffic lights for example, just let the gearbox drop gears itself to a complete stop?
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Cant left footbrake with DSG :grin: :grin:
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Are you able to use the paddles to go up/down gears during normal driving, but when coming to a stop, at traffic lights for example, just let the gearbox drop gears itself to a complete stop?
....Yes. Whether you like it or not, the DSG box of tricks will pop you into 1st as soon as the car comes to a standstill, irrespective of being say in 2nd or 3rd in Manual-mode. I personally find it quite helpful. 1st gear is very short on the GTI and so I find paddle extensions very helpful if tight turns are being negotiated - Either that or pop into S for a fast getaway and very soon back into M.
The above is a good example of how different combinations of DSG modes can be used to advantage - It's NOT just another automatic!
Oh, I forgot to add that if the revs fall too low while in Manual-mode, the DSG will override and shift down. But it's not as irritating as it sounds because it's not good practice to be so reliant (and lazy!) on your torque for the sake of clutch wear(?) (I believe, but might need correcting).
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OK, I defo think the DSG is for me now ;)
Which paddle extensions do you have??
The default factory paddles are hardly 'paddles' IMO - more like small buttons! lol
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If you drive around in D-mode, the DSG will seem hesitant in many situations but the point is that you can instantly flick into Manual and use the gears in exactly the same way as a conventional Manual.
I accept that DSG isn't to everyone's taste but it's an option and if you are prepared to adapt and learn its many, many options, it's something you'll probably always want in a future car.
i want a gearbox to do two things, change gears when i want to, and change them quickly. you don't get this with dsg.
DSG will change the gears when YOU want them to (within reason - it wont let you go into 1st gear whilst still doing 70mph! :tongue:)
Robin summed up the DSG perfectly - it isn't to everyones taste, but the DSG sure is a truely superb gearbox.
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Could someone explain more about the 'D' mode, and why its hesitant in certain situations according to your driving style??
'D' behaves more like a standard auto in terms of the speed of the changes. 'S' mode sharpens/quickens everything up and enables use of the paddles.
Not quote correct. The previous poster touched on the correct answer (can't see their handle because the thread is so long).
Basically, because the DSG is effectively two gearboxes in one casing, it actually works on a 'pre-select' system. If you are at a standstil, and move off - then 1st gear will be selected, and the clutch for that shaft be engaged. At the same time, 2nd gear will also be engaged on the opposite shaft (but with its clutch disengaged). If you continue with a gentle acceleration, then the DSG will pre-select the next higher cog in the box. However, if you suddenly then decide to give it more gas, or even paddle down - then the box will have un-pre-select the next higher gear, and then re-pre-select the next lower gear - before swapping clutches and making an effective down change. It is this scenario which can 'confuse' the DSG, and make it slightly hesitant in certain situations. :nerd:
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If you are accelerating in 4th for example, it will have 5th ready for the change up. However if you suddenly slow instead it takes it a split second longer to get 3rd as it did not have that one ready.
Makes perfect sense.
So say you do brake slowly, and you drop down to 3rd, will it get ready with 4th gear - so in other words will it be a little hesitant with every gear you drop down until you come to a complete stop??
not sure what I said was a good example in retrospect :wink:
although I am guessing it has to make a constant judgement on whether you are accelerating or slowing based on many factors, it does not do the change until it is ready so there is no hesitantly as such and therefore any delay is invisible. The only sort of thing that will make it truly hesitant is braking hard from a reasonable speed to a standstill then imediately mashing the accelerator to set off again, although it pulls in the clutches to stop a stall there is a delay while it gets 1st.
Not true. The DSG always works in pre-select mode. It will always have two gears continuously meshed - one in current use, the other 'waiting in the wings'.
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Are you able to use the paddles to go up/down gears during normal driving, but when coming to a stop, at traffic lights for example, just let the gearbox drop gears itself to a complete stop?
Yup. If you happen to forget, even in manual mode, the gears will still change up or down as needed, and go into 1st when stationary.
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Cant left footbrake with DSG :grin: :grin:
You can, but you need to know how to defeat the 'fly by wire' throttle over-ride.
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Which paddle extensions do you have??
The default factory paddles are hardly 'paddles' IMO - more like small buttons! lol
I personally find no need for extensions to the OEM paddles. Providing you keep your hands in the 'quarter to three' positions (the steering wheel rim is specifically shaped to 'encourage' such hand placings), the standard paddles are more than adequate. And if you are turning from stationary (such as emerging from a 'T' junction, or roundabout), then your left hand should go straight from the handbrake - onto the floor gear lever - in the exact same way as you would with a manual. :wink:
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If you are accelerating in 4th for example, it will have 5th ready for the change up. However if you suddenly slow instead it takes it a split second longer to get 3rd as it did not have that one ready.
Makes perfect sense.
So say you do brake slowly, and you drop down to 3rd, will it get ready with 4th gear - so in other words will it be a little hesitant with every gear you drop down until you come to a complete stop??
not sure what I said was a good example in retrospect :wink:
although I am guessing it has to make a constant judgement on whether you are accelerating or slowing based on many factors, it does not do the change until it is ready so there is no hesitantly as such and therefore any delay is invisible. The only sort of thing that will make it truly hesitant is braking hard from a reasonable speed to a standstill then imediately mashing the accelerator to set off again, although it pulls in the clutches to stop a stall there is a delay while it gets 1st.
Not true. The DSG always works in pre-select mode. It will always have two gears continuously meshed - one in current use, the other 'waiting in the wings'.
My statement is true, you have just misunderstood it
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OK, I defo think the DSG is for me now ;)
Which paddle extensions do you have??
The default factory paddles are hardly 'paddles' IMO - more like small buttons! lol
....The oem paddles being somewhat small and plasticky is what put me off using them for so long - Silly really, but the truth. Then I was given the opportunity to have some one-to-one driver training with a top blue-light instructor and he taught me the advantages of always driving in optimum gear, and it's now habit.
So, TTshop got me these : -
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/Carbonfibre/paddles_frontJPG.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/Carbonfibre/fingersJPG.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/Carbonfibre/paddle_bothsidesJPG.jpg)
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Which paddle extensions do you have??
The default factory paddles are hardly 'paddles' IMO - more like small buttons! lol
I personally find no need for extensions to the OEM paddles. Providing you keep your hands in the 'quarter to three' positions (the steering wheel rim is specifically shaped to 'encourage' such hand placings), the standard paddles are more than adequate. And if you are turning from stationary (such as emerging from a 'T' junction, or roundabout), then your left hand should go straight from the handbrake - onto the floor gear lever - in the exact same way as you would with a manual. :wink:
....I agree that no-one needs to have extended paddles and I also drive in the 'quarter-to-three' position but paddle extensions do help in some circumstances.
I never use the handbrake except when parking but that's a different subject and also one which we have very fully discussed and debated before!
:afro:
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If you are accelerating in 4th for example, it will have 5th ready for the change up. However if you suddenly slow instead it takes it a split second longer to get 3rd as it did not have that one ready.
Makes perfect sense.
So say you do brake slowly, and you drop down to 3rd, will it get ready with 4th gear - so in other words will it be a little hesitant with every gear you drop down until you come to a complete stop??
not sure what I said was a good example in retrospect :wink:
although I am guessing it has to make a constant judgement on whether you are accelerating or slowing based on many factors, it does not do the change until it is ready so there is no hesitantly as such and therefore any delay is invisible. The only sort of thing that will make it truly hesitant is braking hard from a reasonable speed to a standstill then imediately mashing the accelerator to set off again, although it pulls in the clutches to stop a stall there is a delay while it gets 1st.
Not true. The DSG always works in pre-select mode. It will always have two gears continuously meshed - one in current use, the other 'waiting in the wings'.
My statement is true, you have just misunderstood it
Well make it clearer next time! :tongue: :wink: :grin:
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just luuuurve them paddles!!
want want want!!!! :cool:
matsu
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I would say the paddle extentions are a great idea. I found a few times on my rocco test drive that I was accidently hitting the cruise/indicator stalk. Probably not a big problem if your used to the paddles, but a good addition anyway :smiley:
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I would probably prefer paddle extensions in the standard Matte Black though, so it matched with the rest of the wheel, stalks, etc, rather then standing out or being in CF......
Then again, I'd only get them if the standard paddles really were holding me back.....
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How much :shocked:
http://www.thettshop.com/latest.asp?cat=2008&product=202604
Think i will get my uncle to make me some for free and make some fittings. :evil:
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i want a gearbox to do two things, change gears when i want to, and change them quickly. you don't get this with dsg.
That is in fact the definition of exactly what DSG does. Couldn't have put it better myself. :grin:
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How much :shocked:
http://www.thettshop.com/latest.asp?cat=2008&product=202604
Think i will get my uncle to make me some for free and make some fittings. :evil:
....The GTI ones are much cheaper than that.
Unless your uncle is up to professional standard making such parts, Good Luck! If you were to inspect these shifter extensions in the 'flesh' you'd realise what I'm saying.
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i want a gearbox to do two things, change gears when i want to, and change them quickly. you don't get this with dsg.
That is in fact the definition of exactly what DSG does. Couldn't have put it better myself. :grin:
unless the dsg in the golf is different from that in the eos, i really didn't feel that way at all. etto.
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He is currently making this
http://www.wally.com/jumpCh.asp?idUser=0&idChannel=125&idLang=IT&attivo=4
Even the toilet is made out of CF so im sure he can do some paddles :laugh:
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i too have these TID carbon fibre paddles, the same as Robins, and they are fantastic, feel great,easier to find when turning the wheel if im in manual mode, and look the buzziness aswell. :smiley:
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He is currently making this
http://www.wally.com/jumpCh.asp?idUser=0&idChannel=125&idLang=IT&attivo=4
Even the toilet is made out of CF so im sure he can do some paddles :laugh:
....That's impressive. Not everyone's uncle can make such stuff so consider yourself lucky. Meanwhile, I'm happy to have paid whatever I did (I've forgotten) for my CF paddles.
:afro:
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Actually, although a little expensive, and defo not something I would want to pay that much for, on the TT site they do look pretty nice...... ;)
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You get what you pay for with carbon, small jobs are much harder than big jobs. We layed up the mould on the boat in a day once, would probly take a good while just to do those paddles!
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jules i want an uncle like that.... will he adopt me :laugh:
very cool website!! :cool:
matsu
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:laugh:
I helped build it for 6 months last summer, was amazing (all the build is done in Italy)
I met the owner of wally yachts son (he was running the build)
This is his car (he had it about 2 months before it was released to the public as he knows the owner of alfa)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrOZy9EXvas
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reaaly like that car but clarkson absolutely caned it!
love alfas full stop. altho one i got now is only a sportswagon and it needs more grunt,oh and its falling apart..... i love driving it.it handles better than the 156saloon i had...
but of course it dont come close to the gti i test drove!! :cry:
matsu
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I still havent test driven a GTI.
I know that if I test drive it I'll want one straight away. By not test driving it, Im being more relaxed and taking extra time to save! I'll test drive closer to my purchase time! lol
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How much :shocked:
http://www.thettshop.com/latest.asp?cat=2008&product=202604
Think i will get my uncle to make me some for free and make some fittings. :evil:
....The GTI ones are much cheaper than that.
Unless your uncle is up to professional standard making such parts, Good Luck! If you were to inspect these shifter extensions in the 'flesh' you'd realise what I'm saying.
I agree with Robin. On one of the yankie sites, some company was making their own extended paddles, and they looked truely shyte! :sick: There is no doubting that those carbon fibre puppies on Reds car do look superb quality - but like anything with the words 'carbon' and 'fibre' in the same sentance - you gotta pay a decent wedge for quality parts. For the doubters, try Googling for sommat like 'de-laminating carbon fiber' or 'yellowing carbon fiber' (and I used the yankie spelling for 'fibre' because it is them overthere who seem to get caught out the most :wink:).
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i want a gearbox to do two things, change gears when i want to, and change them quickly. you don't get this with dsg.
That is in fact the definition of exactly what DSG does. Couldn't have put it better myself. :grin:
unless the dsg in the golf is different from that in the eos, i really didn't feel that way at all. etto.
Was the Eos DSG the new 7 speed, or was it the current 6 speed? :undecided:
And anyway, even if it was the same 6-speed DSG as found in our GTIs, it can still have very different software on it. If you don't believe me, try a current GTI with DSG, and then try a Golf5 TDI with the same DSG - and the change patterns will be very different. :nerd:
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I'm sure most of you have seen this, but for the benefit of those who haven't driven a DSG - here's a clip from the Fifth Gear test of the GTI. There's a good description of how the DSG works and a demo of a manual change up. You'll need to have your sound on to hear the engine note and the change up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lY9ZGSck0I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lY9ZGSck0I)
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....
And if you'd like some DSG entertainment : - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o - Ah so! P for Parking!
:afro:
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And a more technical viewpoint....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVWP7TYhP0c&feature=related
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^^^^
Excellent find, ifti :afro:
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Its pretty informative and a great insight into how it actually works etc.....
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thanks for the link ifti
crikey ... 7 speed DSG ... I think I'd lose track of which gear I'm in, when in Manual mode :laugh:
which models are getting this new 7 speed ?
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thanks for the link ifti
crikey ... 7 speed DSG ... I think I'd lose track of which gear I'm in, when in Manual mode :laugh:
which models are getting this new 7 speed ?
The lower powered units are getting the 7 speed DSG.
The 7 speed has dry clutches and so cannot handle the same torque levels as the wet plate 6 speed version. :smiley:
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^^^^
Yes, I can't see the point of a 7th gear if you're driving either DSG Manual mode or conventional manual gearbox. "Fuel economy" will be what someone will answer, and VW being seen to be leaders in striving towards eco friendliness. But that's not why I would buy any GTI! Or indeed any performance car which is a joy to drive.
Will the normal manual cars also have 7 gears? :shocked:
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Do they do those shifters in silver? The same brushed aluminium silver as the other bits on the ED30 (GTi?) They'd look a lot more OEM then. I'm not too keen on the carbon.
A lot of new cars are using sequential DSG-style gearbox's. For example the new Aston Martin DBS is a paddle shift sequential box, so is the R35 Nissan GT-R (fastest car round the nurburgring). And thats the only transmission you can choose in the GT-R - isnt even an option of a manual.
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I think they do them in ali (silver). Contact TTroadsport 01234 855 555 - They'll help you.