GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: celica on 05 February 2009, 00:42
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never driven or been in a car with dsg, but was wondering can it be driven as a full automatic?
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never driven or been in a car with dsg, but was wondering can it be driven as a full automatic?
....Yes, but you'd be wasting it's potential and not getting the optimum performance out of your car.
The beauty of DSG is that you can drive it like a Manual and then conveniently slip into D-mode ('Auto') for villages and traffic jams etc.
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never driven or been in a car with dsg, but was wondering can it be driven as a full automatic?
....Yes, but you'd be wasting it's potential and not getting the optimum performance out of your car.
Huh! I'd hardly describe driving a DSG in full auto as wasting any potential! :rolleyes:
And the OP didn't really ask about getting max performance from the car - but even if they had, then you can still get max performance, even in D-mode - by using the kickdown. And let's not forget Sport mode - which is also a 'full auto mode' !
The beauty of DSG is that you can drive it like a Manual and then conveniently slip into D-mode ('Auto') for villages and traffic jams etc.
Agreed. :afro:
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never driven or been in a car with dsg, but was wondering can it be driven as a full automatic?
yes
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Ok, so sport mode just takes every gear to the highest revs before it changes up, right?
If you are just in 'D', and you plant your foot (ie kickdown), isnt it just the same as being in sport mode anyway?? with the only difference being when you let off the gas pedal the car will increase gears back up etc to drive in D mode again, without having to change modes using the Gear Lever?
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never driven or been in a car with dsg, but was wondering can it be driven as a full automatic?
....Yes, but you'd be wasting it's potential and not getting the optimum performance out of your car.
Huh! I'd hardly describe driving a DSG in full auto as wasting any potential! :rolleyes:
....YOU might not describe it like that, but I just did!
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Ok, so sport mode just takes every gear to the highest revs before it changes up, right?
Basically, yes. But in sport mode, it also makes down changes much higher up the rev range too. This maximises engine braking, and also ensures that you are in the lowest possible gear for maximum acceleration. Dependent on actuall throttle opening, this may change up anywhere between 4,500 rpm and the red line - with sport mode generally changing up at around 5,000 rpm.
If you are just in 'D', and you plant your foot (ie kickdown), isnt it just the same as being in sport mode anyway??
with the only difference being when you let off the gas pedal the car will increase gears back up etc to drive in D mode again, without having to change modes using the Gear Lever?
Not really. To activate kickdown (and kickdown works in all three modes :wink:), you must be at "Wide Open Throttle" (WOT) - ie have the accelerator pedal hard to the floor. Once you lift the throttle pedal just a few millimeters (therefore disengaging the kickdown switch) - the gearbox will revert to the usual sedate manner of gear shifts. But if you are in sport mode, then the shift points will be much higher up the rev range, even at light throttle openings.
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Yep, just drive it as a full auto, gives all the benefits of an autobox, including creep at idle in D, without the penalties of a torque convertor, ie, fuel economy gains over autobox, faster response, less power loss etc etc. If you are not used to manuals, or not bothered about cog swapping, I think its a great car to drive in auto mode.
To quote my wife 'used the paddles, buts whats the point, when I've got someone else inside the gearbox to do it for me'
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Yep, just drive it as a full auto, gives all the benefits of an autobox, including creep at idle in D, without the penalties of a torque convertor, ie, fuel economy gains over autobox, faster response, less power loss etc etc. If you are not used to manuals, or not bothered about cog swapping, I think its a great car to drive in auto mode.
Yup - spot on. :afro:
Oh, one teeny weeny point which the DSG does not have compared to normal autoboxes - the DSG does not have 'roll back' prevention. :nerd:
To quote my wife 'used the paddles, buts whats the point, when I've got someone else inside the gearbox to do it for me'
LOL - my SWMBO is exactly the same - must be a 'woman-thing'! :evil: :evil:
In all seriousnous though, even if the gear stick never moves from D, if you drive down a hill, you really should 'paddle-down' to use the engine braking. The amount of times I see peeps going down a hill, brake lights ablaze - just to maintain their existing speed. :rolleyes: Brakes should ONLY be used for "slowing down or stopping" - which basically means using a lower gear and engine braking to prevent the speed from gaining when going down a hill. :nerd:
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
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Yep, agree it does not have an hill assist or roll back protection, but I found that on an incline, if you let your foot off the brake, the car feels like it will run backwards, but only moves a few inches, then the creep takes over. I never tried it on a very steep incline, where I guess it would keep rolling backwards, but human nature takes over, before that and you hit the throttle :huh:
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Kicking the wife is quite stressful too I'm told, but they still keep working :evil:
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
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Yep, agree it does not have an hill assist or roll back protection, but I found that on an incline, if you let your foot off the brake, the car feels like it will run backwards, but only moves a few inches, then the creep takes over. I never tried it on a very steep incline, where I guess it would keep rolling backwards, but human nature takes over, before that and you hit the throttle :huh:
Or correct use of the handbrake! :tongue: :lipsrsealed: :smiley:
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Kicking the wife is quite stressful too I'm told, but they still keep working :evil:
ROTFLMAO
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
....Don't tell him that! illyun has just come back from a very successful weekend at Santa Pod and looks like he's becoming hooked on the drag strip :evil:
It's exactly the DSG stresses which you mention, T_T, which stop me from attempting the quarter-mile.
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Yep, agree it does not have an hill assist or roll back protection, but I found that on an incline, if you let your foot off the brake, the car feels like it will run backwards, but only moves a few inches, then the creep takes over. I never tried it on a very steep incline, where I guess it would keep rolling backwards, but human nature takes over, before that and you hit the throttle :huh:
Or correct use of the handbrake! :tongue: :lipsrsealed: :smiley:
Ain't that the thing they test on the MOT? What else it used for? :nerd:
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Not really. To activate kickdown (and kickdown works in all three modes :wink:), you must be at "Wide Open Throttle" (WOT) - ie have the accelerator pedal hard to the floor. Once you lift the throttle pedal just a few millimeters (therefore disengaging the kickdown switch) - the gearbox will revert to the usual sedate manner of gear shifts. But if you are in sport mode, then the shift points will be much higher up the rev range, even at light throttle openings.
Kickdown appears to work for me even when not in full WOT. The box will kick down a gear even if I press the throttle half-way down. If I floor it, it can drop down by 2 gears - dependant on speed and current gear etc ofcourse
Is there anyway to stop this? I'd prefer it to only happen when I'm really nailing it (WOT only). Its almost like its over-sensitive. Kinda surprises me sometimes as I'm only expecting a moderate increase in speed and all of a sudden it takes off. Fine in the summer but not in weather like we have had recently.
Best example is in "D" doing 45-50mph on motorway and wanting to get up to 70mph.
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
....Don't tell him that! illyun has just come back from a very successful weekend at Santa Pod and looks like he's becoming hooked on the drag strip :evil:
It's exactly the DSG stresses which you mention, T_T, which stop me from attempting the quarter-mile.
Thats why I'm looking into HPA uprated DSG clutch packs :evil: :evil: :evil: But tbh even with those, I will have to be careful with launch control. I don't think I'll be using the launch control feature more than 6-7 times a year which should be ok. I'm probably going to do drag starts with manual or just s-mode with no launch control.
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
....Don't tell him that! illyun has just come back from a very successful weekend at Santa Pod and looks like he's becoming hooked on the drag strip :evil:
It's exactly the DSG stresses which you mention, T_T, which stop me from attempting the quarter-mile.
Thats why I'm looking into HPA uprated DSG clutch packs :evil: :evil: :evil: But tbh even with those, I will have to be careful with launch control. I don't think I'll be using the launch control feature more than 6-7 times a year which should be ok. I'm probably going to do drag starts with manual or just s-mode with no launch control.
Is this because of how much power you have mate? It's all ok for me to do them if i want as i have alot less?
Im worried now :undecided:
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
....Don't tell him that! illyun has just come back from a very successful weekend at Santa Pod and looks like he's becoming hooked on the drag strip :evil:
Whoops! :embarassed: Got to agree though, i bet Launch Control could be quite addictive!
So how did Illyun get on at the pod then?
It's exactly the DSG stresses which you mention, T_T, which stop me from attempting the quarter-mile.
:afro: :afro: :afro: :afro:
There are many other ways of getting enjoyment from your car. :wink: :smiley:
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
Sorry, it was in the context of a heavily modded car - 400bhp - that DSG kickdowns are bad - http://www.hpamotorsports.com/dsg.htm - look under the Stage 3R bit.
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
....Don't tell him that! illyun has just come back from a very successful weekend at Santa Pod and looks like he's becoming hooked on the drag strip :evil:
Whoops! :embarassed: Got to agree though, i bet Launch Control could be quite addictive!
So how did Illyun get on at the pod then?
It's exactly the DSG stresses which you mention, T_T, which stop me from attempting the quarter-mile.
:afro: :afro: :afro: :afro:
There are many other ways of getting enjoyment from your car. :wink: :smiley:
I did ok considering the tyres have only 1mm left at the front (thats 1mm below the worn out indicator - not 1mm in total which would be illegal :wink: ) and that we could only manage 1 go as the strip was shut down due to snow... my wife's cousin (who I took along) managed the best time in the car with 13.67s 1/4 mile @ 113.53mph. I'm sure that I can get closer to a sub-13 time with a bit more practice, decent tyres and a the back seats out :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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I've read that kickdown is quite stressful for the DSG box..
Sorry, but can't agree with that at all. Kickdown is a perfectly acceptable function on any autobox, even if they are a "dual clutch manual". Launch control, along with 'drag strip' type starts are way more stressful on a DSG box.
....Don't tell him that! illyun has just come back from a very successful weekend at Santa Pod and looks like he's becoming hooked on the drag strip :evil:
It's exactly the DSG stresses which you mention, T_T, which stop me from attempting the quarter-mile.
Thats why I'm looking into HPA uprated DSG clutch packs :evil: :evil: :evil: But tbh even with those, I will have to be careful with launch control. I don't think I'll be using the launch control feature more than 6-7 times a year which should be ok. I'm probably going to do drag starts with manual or just s-mode with no launch control.
Is this because of how much power you have mate? It's all ok for me to do them if i want as i have alot less?
Im worried now :undecided:
Well the car is running a lot of power, but its the torque that does the damage. My car was running Stage 2+ Revo software so probably in the region of 350+bhp, but I think the torque levels weren't far off what it was with Stage 2 @ 321bhp. As for standard cars, I still wouldn't use launch control too often as it doesn't do the DSG any good... I'd never used launch control in 18 months of ownership of my Edition 30 until last week and don't intend to use it that often in the future. Nissan are having a lot of problems with their GT-R DSG equivalent and there have been cases in the US where Nissan have refused to honour the warranty if they suspect that the launch control function has been used too often - whatever that means :rolleyes: I'm having second thoughts about ordering one now :undecided:
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Well the car is running a lot of power, but its the torque that does the damage. My car was running Stage 2+ Revo software so probably in the region of 350+bhp, but I think the torque levels weren't far off what it was with Stage 2 @ 321bhp. As for standard cars, I still wouldn't use launch control too often as it doesn't do the DSG any good... I'd never used launch control in 18 months of ownership of my Edition 30 until last week and don't intend to use it that often in the future. Nissan are having a lot of problems with their GT-R DSG equivalent and there have been cases in the US where Nissan have refused to honour the warranty if they suspect that the launch control function has been used too often - whatever that means :rolleyes: I'm having second thoughts about ordering one now :undecided:
Cheers mate. I dont use it, have only done it once. Just showing it to a mate, which is the only time i use it really.
Yeah they wont validate the warranty if the Traction control is turned off!
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Yeah they wont validate the warranty if the Traction control is turned off!
....Then why do they give the option of turning off TC? And why do they allow the technology to facilitate launch control?
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Dont know mate, i saw it on topgear, so how true it is i have no idea.
I know Mitsubishi wont validate the warranty if you launch too much as well.
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Yeah they wont validate the warranty if the Traction control is turned off!
....Then why do they give the option of turning off TC? And why do they allow the technology to facilitate launch control?
There's are a few articles about it on the net... and your question has been asked by many GT-R owners/prospective owners :sad:
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Here you go...
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=18694
From the horses mouth - a worrying read for any GT-R owner:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25361
An article about the GT-R owners destroyed transmission:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/carsumer-advocacy-nissan-refuses-to-replace-gt-r-owners-busted/
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Yeah they wont validate the warranty if the Traction control is turned off!
....Then why do they give the option of turning off TC? And why do they allow the technology to facilitate launch control?
The instructions for using launch control is in the manual that came with the car so is it an "official" feature of the DSG or not? If it is a feature of the DSG then how can VW deny fixing any broken DSG gearboxes under warranty? This is a strange one.
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Right, is there a way to disable launch control using VAG-COM...? I'm seriously worried after reading those as it seems this launch control thing is very bad for the transmission no matter what car you use it on.
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That isn't good reading :shocked:
I now know that I won't be buying a GT-R if that is anything to go by.
Back to the GTI warranty - there is absolutely no official guideline that says you cannot use the launch control function as many times as you want. VW would be on very dodgy ground if they refused a warranty claim based on excessive use of the LC function. Although it doesn't really matter to me as I extinguished my warranty a long time ago :grin:
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Right, is there a way to disable launch control using VAG-COM...? I'm seriously worried after reading those as it seems this launch control thing is very bad for the transmission no matter what car you use it on.
Just don't use it. No need to disable it. From what I can remember you can't accidently use launch control as you need to switch of the ESP, press SET, left foot brake to hold the car, raise the revs to 3000, let go of the brake and plan your right foot to the floor, or something.
Quite a bother to get away from the traffic lights whilst popping down to Morrisons for some cheese and crackers.
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Yeah they wont validate the warranty if the Traction control is turned off!
....Then why do they give the option of turning off TC? And why do they allow the technology to facilitate launch control?
The instructions for using launch control is in the manual that came with the car so is it an "official" feature of the DSG or not? If it is a feature of the DSG then how can VW deny fixing any broken DSG gearboxes under warranty? This is a strange one.
We're talking about Nissan here.. although I wouldn't put it past VW to say something similar. However, I've just read the owners manual and while it gives instructions on how to use Launch Control, there are no warnings or anything of the sort. Looks like Nissan skimped on engineering costs here :angry:
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Right, is there a way to disable launch control using VAG-COM...? I'm seriously worried after reading those as it seems this launch control thing is very bad for the transmission no matter what car you use it on.
Just don't use it. No need to disable it. From what I can remember you can't accidently use launch control as you need to switch of the ESP, press SET, left foot brake to hold the car, raise the revs to 3000, let go of the brake and plan your right foot to the floor, or something.
Easier said than done - the FAST (R) tempts me to use it on the drag strip, so even with the best of intentions..... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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I found it easy
Dropped to 'S'
Left foot on the break
ESP off
Foot to the floor and released break
Took a few seconds!
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Thanks for your links to info, illyun :afro:
Quote:
"If Nissan had any idea that its Launch Control function could damage the car, it should have built a system that could protect itself. Take the new Porsche 911 and its PDK dual-clutch transmission that also has Launch Control. The new Porsche will let you rip off about a dozen runs in a row before a dashboard light illuminates and the ECU limits engine power until everything cools off. Why can't the GT-R watch out for itself like that?"
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Thanks for your links to info, illyun :afro:
Quote:
"If Nissan had any idea that its Launch Control function could damage the car, it should have built a system that could protect itself. Take the new Porsche 911 and its PDK dual-clutch transmission that also has Launch Control. The new Porsche will let you rip off about a dozen runs in a row before a dashboard light illuminates and the ECU limits engine power until everything cools off. Why can't the GT-R watch out for itself like that?"
Because its 20-30k less money! Why do people think it costs so little for what it does?
If you want what a porsche does, every day without trouble, buy a porsche!
If you want what a porsche does, but can cause lots of trouble, buy a GT-R.
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^^^^
So a GT-R is a poor man's Porsche......As I thought :evil:
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Hmmm, dont think I'll be using Launch Control very much at all when I get my GTI now - I thought it was one of the main selling points with DSG, and if it really does cause problems, its best left alone!
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^^^^
Unless you are taking part in quarter-mile drag-strip racing, I don't see the point of ever using LC on the road. The GTI is plenty fast enough on take-off, especially with a remap.
So, to answer the OP - Yes, the DSG can be driven as a full automatic and insurers class DSG as an Automatic. It's a new kind of 'automatic' though, and can be driven 'manually' as well.
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Whats the GTI ED30 like when 'taking off' in normal sport mode?? Do you still get a quick launch when not using launch control?
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Let's face it, hammering away from a standstill is no good for any clutch or gearbox.. whether it be manual, dsg or automatic.
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gutted was planning no showing off the lc to all my mates :evil: not even tryed it my self yet :cry:, but now i'm not so sure.
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Showing it to your mates will be fine! As said any hard launch will put stress. Just dont do 10 in a row, the odd one every so often will be fine.
Ill be showing off to my mates without a doubt :evil:
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gutted was planning no showing off the lc to all my mates :evil: not even tryed it my self yet :cry:, but now i'm not so sure.
Let's not get too cautious! I'm sure using LC once in a while should be ok - say once every 1-2 months or so if you need to be more specific. Just don't be doing it every time you take off from the traffic lights!
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Was Tiff using LC on Fifth Gear when he bogged down against the mini?
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thanks for the replies
wow it got a little technical.
only asked as i'm sure the other half won't see the point in the dsg when it can be driven in D Auto ;-)
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^^^^
Just to clarify: You have to have a DSG equipped car to be able to drive it in D-mode 'Automatic'.
And then, having DSG, you also have many other options.
The best way for you/wifey/G'friend to understand is to go for a test drive in a DSG GTI.
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thanks for the replies
wow it got a little technical.
only asked as i'm sure the other half won't see the point in the dsg when it can be driven in D Auto ;-)
I know, it's like this all the time here, good innit?
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well anyone fancy a swap with a TT :wink: