GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: cmass on 30 January 2009, 17:22
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Hello everyone,
This is my 1st post on this site & I need some help & advise?
I have a Golf GTI DSG which I purchased in March 2006. Over the last week I have broken down twice with the same fault. Last week the engine management light flashed & the car lost all power & would not start (Because of the DSG gearbox, I was unable to coast & despite the accelarator pedal being pressed to the floor, the car stopped immedately). The car was towed & the garage confirmed the fuse blew to protect the engine. Both the cylinder coil & fuse were replaced under warranty. I was told this was an uncommon problem & should not happen again! However, 1 week later the same thing happened. I was told it was s different cylinder coil, so I have insisted all 4 cylinder coils are replaced & the garage have agreed.
Has anyone had a similar problem?
I extremely worried as I travel on the motorway everyday & dread to think what could happen if this happened in the 3rd lane, as you would have no time to pull over to the hard shoulder as this car pretty much give no warning & the DSG gearbox downgears to stop the car immediately.
I love my GTI, but have no confidence with the car & don't want to be in a position where I could be in danger or cause danger to others.
Please help??
Thanks, Carla :cry:
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Coilpacks are fairly common but I wouldnt expect it to do that, maybe a missfire or two.
Best to get them all swapped which now looks like you have - hopefully no more problems for you.
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Hi Carla, and welcome to the forum. :smiley:
OK, some questions:
When you first broke down - who was it who recovered you to the dealer? And did they plug in any kind of 'tablet computer' into a socket under the dash just above where your right knee would be when driving?
If they did plug in this computer thingy, they should have read the cars onboard electronic control units (ECUs) for any stored "Fault Codes". Each individual cylinder (the GTI has four) will have its own unique fault code - so for example, if ignition coil number 3 was to fail, it would display a fault code directing the mechanic/technician to the exact item.
Then when the second coil failed the following week, again, a fault code will be stored.
Now, if the RAC / AA / Green Flag or whoever plugged in their computer - they normally tell the owner of the fault code. However, whenever any work is carried out at the VW dealer, they should also use their own official fault code reader, before carrying out any work. The dealers very rarely offer this kind of detailed info to the customer though. But you can ask for it.
Staying with these "fault codes" - as I mentioned, when anything 'goes wrong' - a fault code is generated and stored in the ECU. Sometimes, the engine warning light in the dash pannel will be illuminated, for some faults, no warning lights may come on, but a fault code is still stored. Got that? OK, whenever a dealer (or other workshop or brakedown service) carries out work to rectify the fault - in your case renew the ignition coil - they are then supposed to 'erase' or clear the stored fault code from the memory of the ECU. 99% of the time, they usually do - but sometimes they forget to clear these codes. If they happen to forget to clear these codes, then sometimes you can get a warning light on again, and it 'tricks' the car into thinking there is still a fault - and maybe this could be the issue you experienced.
Regarding the engine warning light in the dash - if this lights up, and stays lit whilst the engine is running - then this usually indcates that a fault requires the engine to go into "Limp Home Mode". This limp home mode is basically a way of preventing serious damage to the engine - and usually allows the engine to still operate - but at very restricted revs, and with very little power - usually limited to no more than 3,000 rpm. But this limp home mode should never completely turn off the engine.
Now, regarding the actual coils - on older VWs and Audis - upto about 2002 cars, these where known to cause problems, and it was widely reported on Watchdog of the problems VW had in supplying new ones. But this is long ago - the Mk5 Golf, along with all modern VWs/Audis, don't appear to have any known problems with the ignition coils. OK, so you have experienced failures - but I reckon this is a very, very isolated incident - and is certainly not typical of the GTI. It is reassuring that the dealer has agreed to replace all four coils - and perhaps if you havn't collected the car yet, you might ask the dealer for a copy of their stored fault codes.
Hope all this helps. :smiley:
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Hi Teutonic_Tamer
Firstly, thank you for you reply. I really appreciate the time you have time you have taken to respond.
The AA did plug their computer in to the car & a fault was raised with an issue with cylinder 1. However, the AA man could not get the cover off the engine & it was agreed that the vehicle would need to be towed to the dealership. The symptoms I experienced on both occassions were as follows:-
1) Accelarator pedal flutters under foot (feels like you have a blown exhaust)
2) The engine management light flashes (It does not remain on)
3) All power is lost regardless if you have your foot to the floor
4) The vehicle reduces speed immedaitely (Just the same as though you were braking)
5) When the car is stationary the battery light is displayed
6) The car will not re-start
The car does not go into limp mode or even give you the option, which I why I'm worried about the safety aspect of the car. Believe me, it is a horrible place to be & it's happened twice.
When the car did the same thing on Wednesday, the dealership kindly sent two technicians out & they confirmed it was the 2nd coil that was the problem & showed me the coil. They told me you have 4 prongs (I don't know the technical term!) of which one of the prongs had burned out completely (It looked like a blown fuse). They replaced the fuse that had blown & ran the vehicle back to the dealership on 3 cylinders so that the vehicle could be recovered & sorted. They still have the vehicle & will test drive it over the weekend.
The technicans confirmed that the fuse blows to protect the engine & this is why the car will not run. I guess that's why the car won't go into limp mode.
I will ask the dealership about the fault codes when I get a call to collect the car.
I love the DSG, but with the experience I have encountered I now wish I had a geared GTI so that I could at least coast & place the car in a safe position in the event of an emergency. Perhaps when I get the car back next week & all is sorted (fingers crossed) I will not feel a down as I am at the moment.
Thanks again, Carla :smiley:
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While not as common as coil pack failures on the previous GTIs, it isn't entirely uncommon. The coil packs for the mk5 have been revised several times (i think they're up to the 4th or 5th revision now?) but on an '06 you were likely on the original ones - they should now have been replaced with the latest revisions though. For two to blow within a week is extremely unlucky, although not unheard of. Another explanation may be that when replacing the first one the connectors on the harness were damaged (they're pretty fragile) but they should be able to spot that very easily over the weekend if that is the case.
As scary as it may seem for the engine to cut power completely when the fuse blows, it's preferable to the possible alternatives.. which can include the coil packs actually catching fire. Now while it's not advisable to do so in most circumstances, if you do find yourself in a difficult position and the same thing occurs, you should be able to slip the selector into 'N' and coast more safely to a stop. Just don't panic and accidentally slip it too far and hit reverse or park :wink:
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Hi topher,
Again thank you for responding.
I assume it's safe to select "N" even if the car is travelling over 5mph? Do you know what max speed is safe for me to select "N" that won't damage the car or gearbox??
I feel a little better knowing that the coil packs have been updated. I'm a little surprised that the dealer did not change all 4 originally if they have been revised. Perhaps this is why I have the second failure. Hopefully, when the car is returned I won't have any more issues with the coil pack & being stranded at the roadside.
Thanks again, Carla :smiley:
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It's a whole lot safer than suddenly coming to a stop in the fast lane on the motorway, I'd rather lose a gearbox than the whole car. TT may be able to shed some more light on the technical implications of doing it.
VW policy is to only replace the faulty part, and chances are they don't even know about the revisions anyway.