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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: oldngrey on 24 January 2009, 14:11

Title: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: oldngrey on 24 January 2009, 14:11
Hi,
My son's 1300 is causing problems. Head's been off and skimmed to have a new head gasket fitted, after reassembly garage says there is interference when engine is turned over by hand. They suggest that the head had already been skimmed and now valves are touching piston heads. Any (polite) suggestions please folks? Also I have heard of a 1600 engine nearby would this fit? Cheers for any ideas, Rich
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: sidecarphil on 24 January 2009, 14:24
you can get the top of the valves milled off a little

this will stop the interferance

head will need to be off again though

 :cry:

dont know about 1.6
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Khare on 24 January 2009, 15:33
1.6 wont fit in because the 1.3 and the 1.6 have different engine mounting locations.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Jay on 24 January 2009, 17:55
It WILL fit. You just have to make it fit, if that means a 1.6 sub frame, wishbones etc etc so be it.
Might have to change fuel lines too.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Khare on 24 January 2009, 17:57
It WILL fit. You just have to make it fit, if that means a 1.6 sub frame, wishbones etc etc so be it.
Might have to change fuel lines too.
a jet engine will also fit a mk2 if you make it fit. all im saying is aint not worth putting a 1.6 into a 1.3. Just buy a 1.6.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: rubjonny on 24 January 2009, 18:53
what are you 2 on about :grin:
1.6 will drop right in on the existing engine mounts, just need the correct engine brackets on the block, and the gearbox to go with it.  Main issue is the exhaust, plus the carb wiring will need a bit of jiggery.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: JC on 24 January 2009, 18:57
Gotta love people giving advice when they aint got a clue  :laugh:

Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: MooZ on 24 January 2009, 19:00
1.6 subframe? Lol
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Chris-White on 24 January 2009, 19:03
Gotta love people giving advice when they aint got a clue  :laugh:

Surely not?!!

 :grin:
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Khare on 24 January 2009, 19:06
what are you 2 on about :grin:
1.6 will drop right in on the existing engine mounts, just need the correct engine brackets on the block, and the gearbox to go with it.  Main issue is the exhaust, plus the carb wiring will need a bit of jiggery.
1.3 has mounting on the side next to the cambelt. 1.6 has in at the rear of the engine. It CAN fit but it needs major work.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: JC on 24 January 2009, 19:08
(http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/chuffs69/popcorn.gif)

PS, my money is  on RJ  :wink:
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: rubjonny on 24 January 2009, 19:33
no, it does not require 'major work'.  the 1.3 and 1.6 engines both sit right on the same engine mounts.  Dont beleive me?  Have a look here http://www.vwspares.co.uk/g2other.php, check out the engine mounts...
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: DarnPB on 24 January 2009, 21:23
Well that's confused the poor chap! Ar RJ has said, 1.6 will fit straight in, but as also said, some modification to the fuel plumbing and ancilliaries may be required. It depends on how good the shell is as to whether you think it is worth doing or not.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: oldngrey on 24 January 2009, 22:01
Hi,
Thank you to every one who has posted a reply. There's certainly something to think about here. In reply to Kharekatoh it's not a case of wanting to have a 1.6 it's a case of trying to find a solution to the problem as stated. 1.3 engines seem to be thin on the ground while a 1.6 may be available locally - if it fits it might solve the problem. Any other views or ideas, please post them! Thanks again for  comments / ideas already posted. Cheers, Rich
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Dolly on 24 January 2009, 22:45
if your going through the trouble of replacing the engine, you can pick up 8v gti's for next to nothing and from my personal experiance cause less problems then the 1600 driver. alot simpler in my opinion 2.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Ben Lessani on 24 January 2009, 23:11
You'll hate this answer, but most of the posts you see on this forum are ... what bigger engine fits in my car ...

My thoughts, get an insurance quote on a GTi and see if its going to cost you much more, because once you get the 1600, you'll only want more power 6 months down the line.

Infact, skip the middle and just fit the ABF ;)

I can't believe a workshop didn't measure the head to see if it had been skimmed before though? If you really want to keep the 1.3, you can always machine the pistons down a fraction to stop the interferance?
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: rubjonny on 25 January 2009, 10:41
MK2/3 polos are a good source for 1.3 engines, and also if you can find them MK3 Golf & SEATs.  THe ABD 1.4 MK3 Golf/SEAT lump has the same head as a Polo GT apparently, but you need to check it still has the fuel pump hole on the back of the head.

The fuel lines wont need touching except maybe some new rubber line so they reach as on the 1.6 the pump is on the front, you'll need a 1.6-1.8 exhast system and all the engine brackets from the block + the gearbox.  Also you need all the gearbox linkages + the gear shifter too.  Sounds scary but since the zaust is coming off anyway the shifter is only 4 bolts in the tunnel.

Its all bolt off, bolt on stuff once you source everything though.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: oldngrey on 25 January 2009, 12:05
Hi,
Again thank you for all your replies. In reply to those who have suggested going down the GTI route my son is only just 21 and I'm sure lots of you know what a killer the cost of insurance is, plus he's a student with not much of an income at the moment and that would be just about impossible. Any more ideas, thoughts or possibliities please post them! Thank you, Rich
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Ben Lessani on 25 January 2009, 12:09
I'm only 22, was 21 when I first insured myself on the Golf - it came to about £600 with mods declared. When I reinsured this year, more mods declared £370 ;)

Insuring a GTi isn't quite as expsenive as you may think. I'd do a few quotes if I were you, bell.co.uk
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: VR6_ROB on 25 January 2009, 12:19
I had a gti when i was 20 insurance was around £700 with everything declared
if he is mad on the old golf he will proberly want to take this route int he future
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: DarnPB on 25 January 2009, 12:22
Modified cars are generally more expensive to insure anyway, so before going down the engine swap to a 1.6 route, I would check up on how your insurance will be affected, as you are essentially modifying the car. In which case, you may find that buying an 8v GTI may be cheaper on insurance than the 1.6 conversion/mod.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: rubjonny on 25 January 2009, 13:39
also depends on the insurer, for example with hic they insure it based on the car the engine came from.  plus it only costs more to modify it if the mods will increase the power, so if its a boggo 1.6 engine with no performance mods it wont cost you any more than insuring a real 1.6 :)
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: The Mighty Elvi on 25 January 2009, 16:24
I've got a 1.3 if you want.  Still in the car, head's been skimmed but it ran on leaded petol.  Has been garaged for 8 years, but if you can collect and help me get it out it's yours.

Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: danny_p on 25 January 2009, 20:32
1.6 will go in and it''s an EASY swap. but you need a lot of parts,   (enigne,box, mounts, driveshafts, gear stick assembly, water hoses rad,  exhaust )

for a 2.0  it worth doing to a good body shell  but IMO as fun as a tuned 1600 can be in standard form they not worth it.  75 bhp and they are relativly thirsty.    now if you got a polo 3F  enigne and kept the injection   it's still a 1.3 so straight swap in ,  it's better on fuel and it'll go as well as the 1600 and be much more reliable  as peirburg or webber  most running issues on the 1.6 and 1.8 enignes are carb related   
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: oldngrey on 25 January 2009, 21:21
Hi,
Elvi thank you very much for your offer. Unfortunately I live across the other side of the country on the East Coast but I really appreciate you making an offer of the engine. I haven't got the time to make it over but hey thanks a lot. Rich
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: AdamMk2 on 25 January 2009, 21:25
a jet engine will also fit a mk2 if you make it fit. all im saying is aint not worth putting a 1.6 into a 1.3. Just buy a 1.6.

Wait for edition mate when I roll up  :laugh:

(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/sickskater10/_jet_engine_school_bus.jpg)

This is my old school ride
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: rubjonny on 26 January 2009, 08:57
if in a good state of tune the 1.6 is brilliant on fuel, mine was excellent I could get nearly 300mile to £20. This was around 4 year ago though when petty was a bit cheaper  :grin:
Was helped a great deal by the 4+E box that was on there, it was brilliant for cruising but no good for high speed :)
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: topher on 26 January 2009, 09:13
So the head has been overskimmed causing valve interference... now shoot me down for making a silly suggestion but why not use 2 head gaskets? If it's been skimmed that bad I can't see it doing much to the C:R other than taking it back to standard?
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Ben Lessani on 26 January 2009, 09:35
So the head has been overskimmed causing valve interference... now shoot me down for making a silly suggestion but why not use 2 head gaskets? If it's been skimmed that bad I can't see it doing much to the C:R other than taking it back to standard?

That's not a bad idea, but not as exciting as a jet engine ;) Not sure the scene boi's would be too happy with that though :grin:
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Diamond Hell on 26 January 2009, 10:32
So the head has been overskimmed causing valve interference... now shoot me down for making a silly suggestion but why not use 2 head gaskets? If it's been skimmed that bad I can't see it doing much to the C:R other than taking it back to standard?

More layers, more likelihood of gasket failure.

Why do you want to replace the motor in what is a low spec, elderly and essentially end of life car?

Unless your son is an enthusiast and extremely attached to the car and the car is in fantastic condition then this might simply point to it being time to cut your losses and move on.  There's a lot of cheap motors out there at the moment.

Even if he is very attached to the car, sometimes it's better drawing a line under things and moving on, as well Matt Neck on here knows.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: oldngrey on 26 January 2009, 21:38
Hi,
Yep more than one gasket = likelyhood of failure plus the compression issue. Yep he is attached to the car - it is his first and his first comment was he ain't going to scrap it. You young lads eh?
Rich - getting older and greyer
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: Jay on 26 January 2009, 22:40
There can't be much of a difference with insurance on a 1.3 and 1.6, there's like a 2 or 3 insurance group difference...

Let him keep the 1.3 shell as a project and let him get a 1.6 or another 1.3 as a daily.


EDIT: That grey is women! Since I got married I put on about 3 stone and started going grey, and that's only 2 years ago  :shocked:
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: danny_p on 26 January 2009, 22:56
chould just machene valve relifs into the pistons  and have a high CR motor  that would be perfect for a really lairy cam   :evil:

i still say tho it's easy enough to do a 1600 is not worth swapping in.  a polo GT engine is probs the best all round solution   or if going to put a big block in put an 1800 or 2ltr in  i found very littel differance on insurance costs tbh
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: rubjonny on 27 January 2009, 11:30
^^ aye as said sticking with a 1300 lump would make your life easier, pretty much engine out -> engine in swap. Just be aware if you fit a GT lump it may be quite spensive insurance wise due to it being in a higher group.
Plus also check you can still fit your old 1.3 fuel pump to the back of the head, MK3 Polos all have variants of the digifant fuel injection system and electric fuel pumps!  I believe most polo heads should just have a blanking plate over the pump hole, but its best to check. Oh and you'll want to have the cam cover off to check the cam has the pump drive lobe on.
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: AdamMk2 on 27 January 2009, 17:58
Where are you based mate, as my mate has still got his 1.3 sitting on his drive,

He had a new recon head put on as he mullered the other one  by timing wrongly or something.

Engines all ok too, I think for a couple of quid hed be happy to let it go if you were interested as its just sat on his drive since he fixed it, cos hes got a gt tdi  :cool: and the mk2 was the workvan
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: oldngrey on 28 January 2009, 21:11
Hi,
Thank you for your offer. We are Suffolk / Norfolk based. Maybe a bit far but I'll pass on news to the boy!
Rich
Title: Re: 1600 into 1300 will it go?
Post by: AdamMk2 on 28 January 2009, 22:45
Hi,
Thank you for your offer. We are Suffolk / Norfolk based. Maybe a bit far but I'll pass on news to the boy!
Rich

Ok mate no worries, if of any interest il get hold of my mate.

Thanks

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