GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: kittie on 20 January 2009, 13:14
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Hello thar!
I have a strange problem with my PAS - it feels way too light when driving at speed, and seems to have a rather bad dead spot in the middle. At slow speeds it is usually fine, but occasionally it will suddenly go very heavy as if all the assistance has gone. It used to feel like it had plenty of assistance when parking but had a nice resistance/feedback/feel and no dead spot at speed.
The PAS pump was replaced approx 2 years ago due to the original one hissing like a bastard. Fluid and belt are ok afaik. Car has had new shocks/springs all round and front top mounts about a year ago, and the wishbones and bushes were replaced a few weeks ago to resolve a problem I had with the tracking going out all the time/pulling about. Tracking has been done and the tyres are new all round. Oh and it's a 92 8v if it makes a difference.
I can't really pinpoint when the problem started, it seems to have been a gradual degredation but I am really noticing it recently since I've had the wishbones/bushes done (I presume this is just because the car is no longer wobbly so I'm concentrating more on the steering problem)
Any ideas as to what the problem may be? It's spoiling my drives out a bit at the moment :cry:
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Are your tyre pressures ok?
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Yep they're fine, also the problem has existed with two or three different sets of tyres (different brands and sizes) so I'm fairly sure the problem doesn't lie there. Current tyres are all brand new as well :undecided:
I'm actually starting to want rid of the PAS but I know I would regret it with my weak girl arms whenever I come home and reverse onto the driveway!
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What about the tensioner (if they have one) or the other round thingys (forgot the name again! but look like tensioners) the belt goes on?
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HA! Ok I'll check all the round thingys :tongue:
But seriously, how do I check them exactly (may be obvious but I'm clueless)
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when was the last time the alignment was checked?
at speed the pas shouldnt feel light, in my GTI it feels exactlythe same weight when driving as it does when parking, which is just about the same weight as my old manual rack was at speed :)
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Well the alignment was done right after the wishbones were replaced which was just a couple of weeks ago, the car isn't pulling about when driving over bumpy bits as it normally does when the alignment is out so it *should* be ok but I couldn't swear to it! Just want to check things I can do myself before having to spend any money on it (am totally skint!)
I know there's definately something wrong as it feels completely crap compared to how it used to, almost like aquaplaning when you're not.
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did the alignment include camber setup?
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Hmm I don't think camber was checked, just tracking. How is the camber adjusted on the golf? The car is lowered on eibach 30-40mm springs, if that affects anything.
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you crack loose the 2 bolts holdign the hub to the strut and adjust it there, lowering the car will throw it olut also potentially swapping the wishbones if the balljoints were not put back exactly the same as the old ones, plus accounting for wear on the old ones. I think if camber is a bit positive it can cause light steering? Not really sure hopefully someone who knows suspension geometry will comment :)
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Ah now that is interesting, tomorrow I'm having my new brakes fitted which requires swapping the hubs for 16v ones so I wonder if it could be checked then. It might be worth asking the bloke who's fitting it all as owns a bodyshop/accident repair place so I would have thought he'd know a bit about suspension geometry.
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that'll sort it then
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if your fitting the 16v hub's then the alignment will need setting , as your camber will get moved :wink:
i know as i have to do mine after wapping to G60 brakes at the the weekend :cry:
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I set both sides of mine to max camber, was ok when on stock struts/ride height but was waaaaaay -ve when lowered. the insides of my tires disapeared very fast :grin:
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i thought i got mine right (about)
huh pulled like hell :angry: :angry:
was a MILE out on the machine LOL
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Could be a fault with your rack (valving), or the relief valve in your pump could have gone...
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Ah now that is interesting, tomorrow I'm having my new brakes fitted which requires swapping the hubs for 16v ones so I wonder if it could be checked then. It might be worth asking the bloke who's fitting it all as owns a bodyshop/accident repair place so I would have thought he'd know a bit about suspension geometry.
http://www.alignmycar.co.uk/ - will give you 4 wheel alignment centres.
1
Just Car Clinic (Sheffield)
15 Sutherland Street
SHEFFIELD
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Tel: 0114 289 5220
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Yes
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Wingerworth Tyres Ltd
Wingerworth Service Station
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S42 6NB
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12.60
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Tyreshop
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Debdale Lane
MANSFIELD WOODHOUSE
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NG19 9NS
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Tyre 4 U Ltd (HawkEyeAlign)
7 Anglian Way
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933 Leeds Road
Deighton
HUDDERSFIELD
West Yorkshire
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Could be a fault with your rack (valving), or the relief valve in your pump could have gone...
Valving - what does this mean? I hope it's not a problem with the rack as they seem to be very expensive to replace :sad:
I've always been suspicious of the pump to be honest. The first recon one that got put on pissed all the fluid out after about 70 miles so had to have another fitted and I never trusted it since!
I will definately be getting four wheel alignment done, thanks for the info! I hope that solves it but I'll just have to wait and see...
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i have no experience with VW racks but most other car makes have the pressure relief valves in the rack
these reliese pressure back to the pump if it gets too high
might be the problem :cry: :cry:
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the last place i worked we used hawleys on holme lane and challenger on rutand road
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You've definately got the right fluid in, and its not contaminated with water etc? Lift the lid on the reservoir to double check.
When the tracking is out, it usually makes my steering stiffer.
If you find it light when the car is stationary, you can eliminate tracking. If its a replacement pump - you could find its on its way out and operating at an increased pressure. You can bring the pressure down by putting a larger pulley on the PAS pump to slow it down?
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I think the relief valve sounds like a good bet to be the problem - as it is usually too light at speed but sometimes suddenly goes incredibly heavy when parking as well.
The fluid should be right as the pump was fitted at a garage so I would hope they put the right stuff in!
I've got the Wilwoods on now and it's getting four way aligned tomorrow so I will see how it is then. If it's no better I might see about having the pump replaced :sad:
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Most MK2s use Dexron II ATF fluid. G60s and some later diesels use a different fluid you can get from VAG. You can tell by checking your fluid reservoir, red cap = ATF green = VW fluid. Also says on the reservoir 'Use ATF fluid' or similar :)
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Ah cool I will check what colour the cap is later as I can't remember offhand... think it's the colour of muck tbh
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hawleys on holme lane are your best bet kittie. just towards riverlin rd off hillsborough corner.
Challenger on rutland road managed to snap my steering rack and melt both cv boots doing my tracking
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i have no experience with VW racks but most other car makes have the pressure relief valves in the rack
these reliese pressure back to the pump if it gets too high
might be the problem :cry: :cry:
All pumps have relief valves which prevent the rack from being put under too much pressure...if they didn't then the system would be overpressurised and would leak
The racks have a rotary valve which controls the assistance that the rack gives...when you're not turning the wheel, theres no assistance, but when you turn the wheel, the valve opens and allows fluid to the relevant transfer pipe...if this is knackered then you could be getting unwanted assistance, making it feel light
This explains it....
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/steering4.htm
By the way, Kittie, if you need a rack, I've got a freshly reconditioned one here, I'll do it for a good price!
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Had the same problem on my old vr6.
had lots of pressure from the pump and then a pipe burst. After the pipe change the PAS felt even more light than it was. I dont think it did the rack any good :laugh:
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I looked at howstuffworks.com when you first posted Filthy! It makes a lot more sense now. I suppse I'll have to try exchanging the pump and if that doesn't work then the rack... Won't be for ages though as I'm completely skint now :cry:
I will have to remember to phone you for quotes though!
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Good luck Kittie, as I'm on for Awesome to look at mine on Tuesday as despite changing the bloody pump (it was knackered), splitting a pulley in half (Euro car Parts sold me the wrong belt!@!*!! :angry:) and then splitting the bloody tensioner (thanks Rubjohnny for the replacement :wink:) the car is still juddering at low speed and the belt (VAG so is correct) is still slipping unless revs are given at the same time...
If anyone else here knows WTF is going on then let me know
ps: sorry for thread hijack!! :laugh: :laugh:
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Good luck Kittie, as I'm on for Awesome to look at mine on Tuesday as despite changing the bloody pump (it was knackered), splitting a pulley in half (Euro car Parts sold me the wrong belt!@!*!! :angry:) and then splitting the bloody tensioner (thanks Rubjohnny for the replacement :wink:) the car is still juddering at low speed and the belt (VAG so is correct) is still slipping unless revs are given at the same time...
If anyone else here knows WTF is going on then let me know
ps: sorry for thread hijack!! :laugh: :laugh:
If the pumps been changed, and the new belt is slipping, you've got the wrong pump...they all look the same, but they're not! some have a smaller pulley...if you've got one of these, then your belt will slip...get a smaller belt...
Believe it or not, Im currently in the same sitaution, I got a pump that was visually identical, even the same inside, but the pully is actually 4mm smaller! My belt slips at low speeds too...
Oh, you can't just put the bigger pulley on, cos then the pump doesn't spin fast enough and you wont get any assisstance until about 2000 rpm!
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I looked at howstuffworks.com when you first posted Filthy! It makes a lot more sense now. I suppse I'll have to try exchanging the pump and if that doesn't work then the rack... Won't be for ages though as I'm completely skint now :cry:
I will have to remember to phone you for quotes though!
Yeah its a good site, feel free to drop me a line, I'll give you a good price! :smiley:
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Good luck Kittie, as I'm on for Awesome to look at mine on Tuesday as despite changing the bloody pump (it was knackered), splitting a pulley in half (Euro car Parts sold me the wrong belt!@!*!! :angry:) and then splitting the bloody tensioner (thanks Rubjohnny for the replacement :wink:) the car is still juddering at low speed and the belt (VAG so is correct) is still slipping unless revs are given at the same time...
If anyone else here knows WTF is going on then let me know
ps: sorry for thread hijack!! :laugh: :laugh:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=49436.msg869371#msg869371 - read the last half of that post. I came up with a solution to my loose belt.
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seeing as I now have two of these I might just give this ago...but I'm sure i've still got the original small belt so might try that again on the loosest of tension settings as its quick to try :lipsrsealed: thanks for that Ben
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Oh, you can't just put the bigger pulley on, cos then the pump doesn't spin fast enough and you wont get any assisstance until about 2000 rpm!
can you not get a shorter belt from another car ??
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Oh, you can't just put the bigger pulley on, cos then the pump doesn't spin fast enough and you wont get any assisstance until about 2000 rpm!
can you not get a shorter belt from another car ??
Yes, you can...I said that earlier in that post! you just get a shorter one from a non GTI Golf
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either way still helps me!! :grin: