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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: jake on 11 January 2009, 17:52

Title: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: jake on 11 January 2009, 17:52
I went to piston heads yesterday, wow what a day it gets better every year.

the worst thing is i always walk away wanting to buy everything!!

I have a 1.8t golf running at 200 bhp, just less, and ive upgraded my clutch and of course many other mods.

I went round the show and i have 3 ideas that i talked in depth with people there. Either upgrade my turbo to ko4(s3 turbo), but

obv this means i need a new intercooler and remap, or Cam it with Kent cams, this obv means again remap aswell, or NOS.

Now i know when people think of NOS they think of fast and the furious, but its nothing like that, its not a button that you press

its a steady flow of power and its controlled by a control unit so you cant insert too much, you also get them in different shots

such as 50hp shot up to 150? this doesnt require a remap and costs around 700 pound including fitting?

I'd love to hear some ideas or to hear from people who have done any of these things, especially NOS.

hopefully replies will help me decicde what to do

thanks
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: w0ffle on 11 January 2009, 17:55
p
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Jkctr on 11 January 2009, 18:19
Dont expect the engine to see many more years if your going for nos!

Just buy a faster car! Even if you manage more power your car isnt designed to use it properly! 200bhp+ through the front wheels is only usable while rolling and even then you will need to be in a higher gear. I got wheel spin in 3rd in damp conditions in my old car with 220bhp, even with michellin pilot exalto pe2's! Those tyres allowed me to use 1st in the dry for the first time when i fitted them.

Get an S3, that way it already has the turbo you want, 4wd, more power form a map and isnt very expensive!
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Rhyso on 11 January 2009, 18:21
Dont expect the engine to see many more years if your going for nos!

Just buy a faster car!

agreed on the engine front but if everyone bought a faster car as you like to suggest then no one would mod and this forum and many others really wouldn't exist let alone the tuning companies who like to make slow cars go faster

as for wheel spin in 3rd - i can get that with 50bhp less than your old car  :tongue:  i do have about 50% more torque though  :evil: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: RnP on 11 January 2009, 18:27
thats the problem with these shows, your credit card will take a hefty beating afterwards, i know mine does, then i get an earfull from the wife
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Rhyso on 11 January 2009, 18:29
to the OP

why don't you look into getting your existing turbo upgraded - check out companies like Turbo Dynamics

that way you don't have to faf about with new pipes etc etc - just unbolt your old turbo, send it away, they refurb and rebuild and bolt back on.  Get a map from R-Tech, job done - big smile on face  :cool:
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Jkctr on 11 January 2009, 18:42
Dont expect the engine to see many more years if your going for nos!

Just buy a faster car!

agreed on the engine front but if everyone bought a faster car as you like to suggest then no one would mod and this forum and many others really wouldn't exist let alone the tuning companies who like to make slow cars go faster

as for wheel spin in 3rd - i can get that with 50bhp less than your old car  :tongue:  i do have about 50% more torque though  :evil: :grin: :grin:

Dont get me wrong mate, im not at all against modding! I just dont see the point in taking the car further than it should go. A remap, some other parts (exhaust, induction etc) and some handling parts are all good but bigger turbos, nos, cams etc are asking for trouble!

I made it spin at 6000rpm in 3rd  :smug: and yes you do have alot more torque lol
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: richw911 on 11 January 2009, 18:47
Dont expect the engine to see many more years if your going for nos!

Just buy a faster car!

agreed on the engine front but if everyone bought a faster car as you like to suggest then no one would mod and this forum and many others really wouldn't exist let alone the tuning companies who like to make slow cars go faster

as for wheel spin in 3rd - i can get that with 50bhp less than your old car  :tongue:  i do have about 50% more torque though  :evil: :grin: :grin:

Dont get me wrong mate, im not at all against modding! I just dont see the point in taking the car further than it should go. A remap, some other parts (exhaust, induction etc) and some handling parts are all good but bigger turbos, nos, cams etc are asking for trouble!

I made it spin at 6000rpm in 3rd  :smug: and yes you do have alot more torque lol

I disagree - A massive turbo yes is asking for trouble but a k03s which has a bigger compressor, And is fitted as standard in the newer 1.8T's.

Will give you 220bhp with a map and the engine CAN take it.

The 1.8T can handle 250 BHP quite easily 
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Rhyso on 11 January 2009, 18:48
Dont expect the engine to see many more years if your going for nos!

Just buy a faster car!

agreed on the engine front but if everyone bought a faster car as you like to suggest then no one would mod and this forum and many others really wouldn't exist let alone the tuning companies who like to make slow cars go faster

as for wheel spin in 3rd - i can get that with 50bhp less than your old car  :tongue:  i do have about 50% more torque though  :evil: :grin: :grin:

Dont get me wrong mate, im not at all against modding! I just dont see the point in taking the car further than it should go. A remap, some other parts (exhaust, induction etc) and some handling parts are all good but bigger turbos, nos, cams etc are asking for trouble!

I made it spin at 6000rpm in 3rd  :smug: and yes you do have alot more torque lol

but with a few suspension mods the MKIV can easily handle 200bhp+ with 250bhp being about the maximum safe limit i reckon

Ivor's MKIV with over 200bhp goes and handles very well  :cool:

in the wet thats easy - can you do it in the dry  :shocked: :laugh: :laugh: :smug:
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Jkctr on 11 January 2009, 18:58
Yeah 250bhp is fine, the engine can take it with relative standard parts, excessive options such as NOS, cams, throttle bodies, bigger aftermarket turbos, high psi on standard parts etc will all take the car beyond its limits. 300bhp in the mk4 would be excessive and bordering on useless with FWD! The amount of money it would take would also mean you should have just changed!

I only managed wheel spin 2nd in the dry but the michellin pilots exaltos were unreal and just gripped!
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: richw911 on 11 January 2009, 19:01
Yeah 250bhp is fine, the engine can take it with relative standard parts, excessive options such as NOS, cams, throttle bodies, bigger aftermarket turbos, high psi on standard parts etc will all take the car beyond its limits. 300bhp in the mk4 would be excessive and bordering on useless with FWD! The amount of money it would take would also mean you should have just changed!


Yes i Agree.  :wink:
And yeah anything more than 220 BHP  is wasted in a FWD car.  :smiley:
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Rhyso on 11 January 2009, 19:02
Yeah 250bhp is fine, the engine can take it with relative standard parts, excessive options such as NOS, cams, throttle bodies, bigger aftermarket turbos, high psi on standard parts etc will all take the car beyond its limits. 300bhp in the mk4 would be excessive and bordering on useless with FWD! The amount of money it would take would also mean you should have just changed!

I only managed wheel spin 2nd in the dry but the michellin pilots exaltos were unreal and just gripped!

agree with NOS, cams and throttle bodies but an aftermarket or hybrid turbo doesn't need to take the engine beyond its limits - most are designed to give a nice pull right through the rev range unlike the standard turbo which tails off towards the redline

i'll be looking at a Stage One turbo sometime next year mainly as mine will most likely be past its best and more power is always welcome  :grin:

Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: jake on 11 January 2009, 19:04
great replies guys?what was this about improving my current standard turbo?how does this work and how much does it cost?


thanks
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Rhyso on 11 January 2009, 19:07
great replies guys?what was this about improving my current standard turbo?how does this work and how much does it cost?


thanks

lol sorry got a bit carried away!  :grin:

check out these people

http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/

 :smiley:

costs will vary from what you want done but in effect they replace the internals of your turbo for stronger parts  :smiley:
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Jkctr on 11 January 2009, 19:12
Yeah 250bhp is fine, the engine can take it with relative standard parts, excessive options such as NOS, cams, throttle bodies, bigger aftermarket turbos, high psi on standard parts etc will all take the car beyond its limits. 300bhp in the mk4 would be excessive and bordering on useless with FWD! The amount of money it would take would also mean you should have just changed!

I only managed wheel spin 2nd in the dry but the michellin pilots exaltos were unreal and just gripped!

agree with NOS, cams and throttle bodies but an aftermarket or hybrid turbo doesn't need to take the engine beyond its limits - most are designed to give a nice pull right through the rev range unlike the standard turbo which tails off towards the redline

i'll be looking at a Stage One turbo sometime next year mainly as mine will most likely be past its best and more power is always welcome  :grin:



It doesnt need to but most people run too much boost. Great cars like the Renault 5 turbo have been destroyed due to idiots running huge boost. They will be a rare classics in the future!
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: jake on 11 January 2009, 19:29
ok i might ring them tmoz

do you think it is worth the performance?how much bhp would i expect from it?
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Rhyso on 11 January 2009, 19:32
ok i might ring them tmoz

do you think it is worth the performance?how much bhp would i expect from it?

whats your current mileage??  could be worth it if your current turbo is over the 100K mark.  don't expect massive gains from it but do expect it to pull harder and stronger right until the red line

also it would be less hassle than upgrading to a KO4 due to the amount you have to change to get it to fit

best to have a chat and see what they say - we could speculate the gains all day but they should be able to give you a ball park figure

let us know how you get on  :smiley:
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: jake on 11 January 2009, 19:45
its on 85k mate

so not too high

ill get back to u mate
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Rhyso on 11 January 2009, 19:46
its on 85k mate

so not too high

ill get back to u mate

hmm investigate the cost then but at that mileage you got at least another 60K left easily!!
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Steve_PD on 11 January 2009, 20:41
i'll be looking at a Stage One turbo sometime next year mainly as mine will most likely be past its best and more power is always welcome  :grin:

Stage two hybrid  :evil:
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: jake on 13 January 2009, 14:31
just rang turbo dynamics today and they said they could stretch the standard turbo to about 220 bhp, thats with mine currently running at

200bhp, they want 550 quid, so i think i might just save a little bit more money and get the KO4
 :huh: :huh:

Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 14 January 2009, 00:19
just rang turbo dynamics today and they said they could stretch the standard turbo to about 220 bhp, thats with mine currently running at

200bhp, they want 550 quid, so i think i might just save a little bit more money and get the KO4
 :huh: :huh:




Don't do it, mate. For the hassle/expense/less driveability of an extra 25 bhp over a stage 2 'S', it's really not worth it, IMO. ;)
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 14 January 2009, 00:25
Yeah 250bhp is fine, the engine can take it with relative standard parts, excessive options such as NOS, cams, throttle bodies, bigger aftermarket turbos, high psi on standard parts etc will all take the car beyond its limits. 300bhp in the mk4 would be excessive and bordering on useless with FWD! The amount of money it would take would also mean you should have just changed!


Yes i Agree.  :wink:
And yeah anything more than 220 BHP  is wasted in a FWD car.  :smiley:


Only to a certain extent, IMO. ;)  The Meg. R26 has an LSD & am sure could take 300, as will the new Focus RS which will have a trick diff & 300 Ps as STANDARD!!!  :o
Title: Re: TOO MANY IDEAS???
Post by: illyun on 14 January 2009, 02:18

And yeah anything more than 220 BHP  is wasted in a FWD car.  :smiley:

Not really.. my Mk5 Edition 30 has 321bhp through the front wheels and is perfectly driveable  :evil: :evil: :evil:  Getting Stage 2+ done next Monday most probably - 355+bhp here I come  :shocked:  Although thats taking the standard engine and turbo to the very limit I'd say.  On another note, what on earth am I doing straying out of the Mk5 section  :grin: :grin: :grin: