GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => The garage => Topic started by: frankerooney on 16 June 2004, 13:51
-
Hi.
Just in the middle of changing my head gasket. I've got the head off, and the manifolds off the head etc.., now am wondering what the best method is for cleaning up the faces of the block and the head. May get the head skimmed anyway, so this probably isn't as vital, but could really do with some advice on the block. Anyone got any ideas on keeping bits out of the boes and oil holes aswell?
Second thing I'm wondering about is the tightening of head bolts. Haynes says 40N torque, then 60, then 180 degree turn. This sounds like a big old torque. Actually a bit scarey - what's the likelyhood of bolts stripping? And what's the best way of measuring the 180 degrees w/o special tools?
???
-
Put some paper wipes down the bores to stop sh1te going down, and change the oil after the engine has run for a while, to clear out any contamination from the work.
Scrape any old gasket material off with a good scraper, don't dig into the metal. Then clean the face up with some wet and dry, spray the metal with some WD40 or similar and clean back to the metal. Get some brake cleaner or similar spirit type stuff to clean oil etc from the gasket faces before you re-build. Make sure there is no oil down the head bolt holes in the block and the threads are clean.
180 degrees= half a turn ;)
Steve.
-
Cheers Steve,
sounds like you've done this before! I'm planning on having the head skimmed so shouldn't need to clean the face of that. What, in people's opinions, is the best make of head gasket? I've bought myself a payen one - was only ?12.50. I think it's a pretty good make, so did I get a good price, or are they not so great?? What do people use to get the head bolts clear? They're only about an inch deep, but full of oil at the moment!
-
Use fine sandpaper and/or emery cloth to clean the faces up.
ALWAYS use genuine parts from VW, pattern ones won't last. Its a fairly big job, so do it properly.
You won't need to skim the head unless it damaged or warped, check for flatness with a steel rule, and look for any corrosion, particularly around the bores and water/oil ways.
-
I usually use a straw and carefully, as it doesn't taste nice, suck the oil out.
Personally I wouldn't have the head skimmed unless necessary.
Don't forget that you MUST use new head bolts as they are stretch bolts and that last 180 deg turn stretches the bolt ;)
-
Check for warping by laying the head on a flat piece of glass
-
Ok, so I'm onto the last stage of me headgasket. The block is looking quite clean but I'm not sure if it's good enough. I've been using a scraper and plenty of WD40 to get all the old gasket off, and then wet and dry 1200 grit paper to get it shiny. Problem is it isn't all that shiny - in places yeh, but especially around the water galleries is looking a bit naff. I've posted some pictures - can anyone tell me what they think about whether I need to carry on scrubbing or if it's ok. The close up is of the worst bit where (I think) the gasket was blowing in the first place. I'm a bit worried as the surface is (slightly) pitted. Will it just blow again?
???
(http://www.eefranka.dydirect.net/images/block3.jpg)
(http://www.eefranka.dydirect.net/images/block2.jpg)
(http://www.eefranka.dydirect.net/images/block1.jpg)
-
Looks like you have done a A1 job ;D. The small amount of "peppering" around where the fire ring seals is not perfect but I think it will be ok.
Steve.
-
It should seal ok, as long as you use genuine parts :)
-
use cotton buds to get oil from bolts holes!
remember to get all the holes clear as if oil is left in the pressure from the bolt will make the oil crack the block!
-
Cheers for the replies. ;D It's my first go at a head gasket, so I'm learning!
So we think that particular water gallery will be ok then? I'll have another look at that peppering and see if it's removable. The other cylinders aren't like that, but it could be because it was that cylinder leaking.
What do people think of payen gaskets? It looks pretty good but I guess not as good as VW stuff. The headbolts aren't genuine either! But all the rest of the stuff I had to buy is (injector o-rings etc). Been quoted 2.33 each for the smaller rings (KJET injector, air shrouded type) from VW! Talk about premium prices!
-
Pay the VW prices, that way you know it will last :)
-
The Payen head sets are fine, last one i bought had all the injector seals in the set :). Don't worry to much about the peppering around the water gallery, you will cause more problems trying to remove the marks as you will be removing metal from the block. The pattern head bolts will be fine (don't think VW make there own bolts ;)).
Steve.
-
Thanks again for the replies. I feel a bit more confident about the job now. Probably going to fit it all together tomorrow, weather permitting! One last question - anyone used the haynes way of lining up the head? I'm on my own so can't really get someone to hold it up in the air while I get two bolts in - haynes say to chop the heads off two bolts, and cut slots in the top - put them in holes 8+10 and then place block over the top and unscrew with a screwdriver afterwards... Sounds ok, but just wondered if it works. I think I owe you all a pint for the advice... ;D
-
I've never use the method in Haynes.
Just put the head straight on, just be careful.
I can't agree with Steve (for once), i think not using genuine parts is asking for trouble, my policy is use genuine parts, do the job once, and once only ;)
-
I know what you mean '6 about genuine parts. I have used Payen gasket sets for years and they are ok, some times the seals on the BMW kits have the BMW mark on them. The last VW head set I brought had a Victor Reinz (sp) head gasket in it, OE I think :-\.
As for re fitting the head, as '6 said, drop it on and fit all the head bolts. Screw them all in by hand then torque as manufacturers specks.
Steve.
-
I hear what you're saying '6. You don't work for VW do you?? I normally use genuine everything but this time calls for special circumstances - I'm only doing it myself to prove that I can do it to a reasonable price (helps placate wifey). VW wanted ?95 for a head set - with a payen one about ?25. BUT Anyone else out there considering doing this job - go it with genuine bits!
-
Just to keep this thread updated.. in case anyone's interested! Went to VW and showed them the pictures of the block. Their advice was to put gasket sealant around the water hole that looked a bit dodgy. But in the end I got fed up and bolted the head on without any additives (except a gasket of course). Now I'm hoping it seals ok. I cleaned up the block with lots of thinners - also the head with the same before I put it back together. I've got to put everything else back before I can see if it worked! In the end I followed the bentley manual advice and did the 180 degrees in two steps of 90. You can feel the bolts stretching! Was pretty nerve wracking on the last 90 I can tell you. Is there are way of telling that the head is precisely lined up? I mean the bolt holes in the head have about 1mm or so of free space around them, so I just lined up the front of the head with the front of the block - good enough? All the bolts went in fine, so I hope it's ok. I don't need to retorque the bolts again do i? I noted they were around 85lbft after the second 90 degree turn..
8)
-
oh, and thanks to vwsystems - the cotton wool bud idea worked a treat. I was wondering how I was going to get that oil out of the holes - thinking I was going to have to use a straw! The other good thing was that bits of gasket or whatever fell down the hole seemed to come out with the oily buds.. The wife saw them afterwards and made some remark about disgusting ear hygiene :)
-
Head lines up ok with the bolts in, no need to re-torque.
Steve.