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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: k4ith on 02 January 2009, 22:27
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I was gonna pay and get some welding done on the mk2 but feel that for the prices i been quoted I could either buy a mig welder or hire one and do it myself cheaper, but iam a complete novice so I was wondering what you guys have done.You can get 140, 180,300 amp ones 110v ones any recommendations the 140a looks to be ok for car as its just the floor pan for the mo, renting looks good at £40 for the weekend.
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I was looking at getting a welder too so I'd like some advice.
I've seen these on the bay, (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WELDING-WELDER-SPOT-MIG-TIG-ARC-TRAINING-COURSE-GUIDE_W0QQitemZ160299016739QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item160299016739&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318) hopefully enough to get to grips with the basic welding practices.
Cheap, but has it got enough power? (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/silverline-100-amp-gasless-portable-mig-welder_W0QQitemZ180317089289QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item180317089289&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A15|39%3A1|240%3A1318)
There are loads of cheap mig welders on the bay atm.
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Very useful:
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/
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Hi!
I had a similar thing a few years ago and decided to buy myself a mig welder, £70 off ebay for a gasless mig, had a practice on a few bits of scrap metal and its nowhere near as hard or scary as it looks. Ben welding ever since and quite enjoy it :grin: Just be carefull not to set fire to the car or yourself!
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Having welded with most forms, don't get a gasless unless you can convert it.
I've got a 150A Arc which is basic at best, but gas MIG is the best way to go to get a good clean penetration and strong weld! I couldn't reccomend any personally, but equipment I've used is Lincoln Electric.
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Agree with Ben, go for gas.
I've had a basic one from Machine Mart for years now. Even the smallest are quite powerful enough for bodywork.
I rent a cylinder from Air Products but I do quite a bit of welding, disposables are available but not cheap if you're doing a lot. Can use pub gas (CO2) if you know a friendly landlord, but it is not as good as proper welding gas.
Get a book to teach you the basics and practise before doing something important.
When you get a mask, get a low index on the darkness of the glass or you won't be able to see anything on the power used for bodywork. Also good illumination helps.
When you've mastered the tequniques you will become very popular with the owners of old cars!
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Agree with Ben, go for gas.
I've had a basic one from Machine Mart for years now. Even the smallest are quite powerful enough for bodywork.
I rent a cylinder from Air Products but I do quite a bit of welding, disposables are available but not cheap if you're doing a lot. Can use pub gas (CO2) if you know a friendly landlord, but it is not as good as proper welding gas.
Get a book to teach you the basics and practise before doing something important.
When you get a mask, get a low index on the darkness of the glass or you won't be able to see anything on the power used for bodywork. Also good illumination helps.
When you've mastered the tequniques you will become very popular with the owners of old cars!
good advice from above, i have gasless aswell bought one to do all the sills + castles on my MG, thing you have to remember is that the welding has to be good enough to pass MOT. dont get me wrong doesnt have to be perfect but tidy. which can be difficult depending on what you are welding so get a load of scrap together and practice as much as you can before doing it. :smiley:
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One small point, the original poster mentions 110v welders, you need 240v unless you are gonna spend another load on a transformer or have access to a 110v supply (most peeps do not).
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Ive had no problems welding with gasless migs, if your only doing small repairs on your own vehicle then there isnt really any need to spend more money for a gas type, you also then have the added costs of buying the gas bottles. I use a gas mig at work and its nice to weld with and makes a cleaner weld but the difference isnt massive.
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I have a Cebora 130 turbo mig that is nice and small but can weld fairly big jobs, you can pick them up on ebay for around £100. They also come in the form of snap on but its the same welder.
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for body work you don't need power you need control wire feed is everything, small welders + co2 dosent work they really need arc sheild.
gassless ones are ok for minor bits but the wire is expensive and the welders will get warm and cut out if ask them to do much more than light bodywork.i would say if you want to do welding get a decent 200+ amp thing on a trolly as the mid market mini migs seem to be a waste of time
arc welding is not for cars, the good thing with it is it's inpossibel to do a sh!t weld that looks good but anything sub 2mm it just becomes a pain.
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If your going to do this, then do it right, you need a mig that is able to cope well with thin steel, yet handle penetration that is required for 1/4 plate, that will cover you for welding things like brackets, exhaust mountings, bolts, lawnmower parts, wrought iron.. you get the picture, I would consider nothing less that a 180amp mig running ideally on Argoshield gas, however, for Argoshield, you would need a BOC account, and for many reason, that is easier said than done! though your mig would work perfectly on the cylinders of Co2 that pubs use to pump beer! do you know a friendly landlord! although the correct guage is needed. I'm still on the same bottle that I liberated over 15 years ago!! disposable bottles are a pain, expensive, and guaranteed to run out at a critical point, Its sods law!
Get yourself on a good night school course, and lots of practise makes perfect
Tom
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There is a HUGE difference between trying to MIG weld shielded by CO2 vs Argoshield (AS).
AS = nice, clean welds without weakening contamination
CO2 = sh1tty welds with lots of contamination - much weaker and harder to produce in the first place.
CO2 isn't as easy to get hold of these days, either - bottles are supplied on an exchange basis, so you have to find a way of getting either a full one, or an empty one out of the system.
I started out on arc welding and MIG is a world of easy in comparison, provided you pay proper money for a good set (and that doesn't necessarily mean the biggest set you can get). Unfortunately bodywork is one of the tougher things to do welding-wise - remember you're trying to fill in a hole basically with liquid metal by nearly liquidising the metal on either side of the hole. Thinner metal goes to liquid a lot easier and faster than thicker metal - you're likely to wind up with holes.
That said, it's not too tough and exceptionally satisfying when you get it right. Just get set to get it wrong quite a bit before you get it right.
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the other thing to rember with migs is diffrent compnies think amps mean diffrent things, i used to have a mini mig and would have it turned all the way to 150 A to weld small box section properly, a decent mig set to 100 A had much more grunt. TBH afetr doing enough with it i'll pick up an ark welder even for thin steel over a minimig but will choose mig over ark if there is a decent one around,
oh if in dought chooseing between two welders allways buy the heavyest ( unless one of them is inverter based one )
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I have one of the SIP ones from Halfords, bought it from a friend for not much and replaced the nylon torch liner with a metal one and it's fine for bodywork and exhausts and such :)
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There is a HUGE difference between trying to MIG weld shielded by CO2 vs Argoshield (AS).
AS = nice, clean welds without weakening contamination
CO2 = sh1tty welds with lots of contamination - much weaker and harder to produce in the first place.
CO2 isn't as easy to get hold of these days, either - bottles are supplied on an exchange basis, so you have to find a way of getting either a full one, or an empty one out of the system.
I started out on arc welding and MIG is a world of easy in comparison, provided you pay proper money for a good set (and that doesn't necessarily mean the biggest set you can get). Unfortunately bodywork is one of the tougher things to do welding-wise - remember you're trying to fill in a hole basically with liquid metal by nearly liquidising the metal on either side of the hole. Thinner metal goes to liquid a lot easier and faster than thicker metal - you're likely to wind up with holes.
That said, it's not too tough and exceptionally satisfying when you get it right. Just get set to get it wrong quite a bit before you get it right.
I agree with what your saying... but trying to set up a BOC account to obtain argoshield, without a business premises, or a VAT number, forget it!
Co2 through a decent 180amp mig is more than adequate for occasional home use, and is nowhere near as bad as you describe, and in some cases its better than Argoshield, and im sure that "pub" gas is as high quality as the gas that you get ripped off for in those small "aerosol" type bottles that the likes of Halfords or B&Q supply
Tom
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I agree with what your saying... but trying to set up a BOC account to obtain argoshield, without a business premises, or a VAT number, forget it!
Funny, I just walked in to my local welding supplies place, told them my residential and personal bank details and walked away with a standing rental charge on my account and a medium-sized bottle of Argo-shield.
Maybe they have something against you? :rolleyes:
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Certainly some years ago, BOC made it very difficult for the home use user to obtain there products, so as of late, I have to admit I'm not clear on what they will, or will not do, I'll stand by what I say though, Co2 is perfectly adequate for occasional home use..
Tom
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Have to agree with what Diamond Hell said there, use a welding suppliers instead of BOC direct, a friend had no such problems last time he needed a bottle for home use.
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Definitley, BOC are a pain I used to get helium and dry ice from them and it was a roll up and pay job, fetch the empty back and we'll give you your £20 deposit back. Now however I went to get some Argoshield and they looked at me like I just stepped off the boat. Went to the local welding supplier and he handed over a bottle and reg no worries and for the price of a little halfords bottle and refills are cheap as :) He said it was because he had a trade account with them so he could then pass it on but BOC themselves no longer supply the man off the street, he can get me dry ice and nitrous as well :grin:
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Definitley, BOC are a pain I used to get helium and dry ice from them and it was a roll up and pay job, fetch the empty back and we'll give you your £20 deposit back. Now however I went to get some Argoshield and they looked at me like I just stepped off the boat. Went to the local welding supplier and he handed over a bottle and reg no worries and for the price of a little halfords bottle and refills are cheap as :) He said it was because he had a trade account with them so he could then pass it on but BOC themselves no longer supply the man off the street, he can get me dry ice and nitrous as well :grin:
That's pretty much how it is where I am, speaking to a mate this afternoon that uses a mig at home, he says that he has never been able to buy from BOC as he has no account, but is able to buy from a more local welding supply specialist, but is under the impression that he's only able to get the gas from them because he's dealt with them for many years, ie, there doing him a favour! I suppose that the storage and use of these types of gases is subject to COHSS regulations, so is pretty much open to misinterpretation and abuse!
Tom
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BOC agents can be ghay. airproducts have done me gd deals tho
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I don't know what all the fuss is about - I walked into a BOC dealer, with a couple of bills, gave my details and walked off dragging an argoshield bottle.
Don't you people have your own residential address and bank account, or something?
:undecided:
It was from these guys: http://www.indeweld.co.uk/
Yes, I had to open an account, yes there is a monthly rental on the bottle, but it means my welding's a lot easier, cleaner and stronger.