Author Topic: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....  (Read 13226 times)

Offline Splashalot

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To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« on: 04 November 2021, 06:10 »
Following on from various discussions with Exonian in other threads I thought I'd consolidate my thoughts in their own thread, instead of derailing others'.

I've long been pondering EVs and trying to judge whether to jump in now or wait for the rumoured (mostly battery) advancements which never seem to arrive.  And recent events with chip shortages and resultant used car stock shortages means I've been offered silly money for my 2018 7.5 manual GTI as a trade in.  Which has somewhat bought the issue to a head.

Here in Aus. lack of Federal Govt. support has meant a paucity of EV choices.  If you rule out Tesla (I cannot put into words how much I detest the idea of everything operating though a tablet screen) and various truck-like SUV things, we're left with:
* Nissan Leaf (mid $50s OTR)
* Hyundai Ioniq ($52-$56k, depending on spec); or
* Mini Electric (low to high $60s, again depending on spec)

I've now test driven all three, and my brief thought are below:

Nissan Leaf:  Old school interior appeals in terms of buttons and dials.  However, they're not terribly well designed and presented, so not as user friendly as I'd hoped.  Small, difficult to locate, read and use.  Very high seating position - I noticed I was eyeball-to-eyeball with adjacent SUVs - so deceptively tall.  Very soft throttle response with large movements required lead to a slightly sluggish feeling.  Lack of steering wheel reach adjustment didn't bother me.  Regenerative braking was well implemented and easy to use, after a brief period of acclimatisation.   But the big knock on it was the ride, which bordered on old-school floaty.  Hugely absorptive and comfy, but left both my wife and I a tad nauseous with it's slightly unchecked body movements.  Which was a deal breaker.  Scrap the Leaf.

Hyundai Ioniq: Note this is the older hatch, not the new Ioniq 5 (which is way too large for my preferences).  By far the best balanced of the three in terms of ride comfort, driving enjoyment, utility and value.  290nm meant not quite the same push-you-back-in-the-seat shove as the Leaf or especially the Mini, but more than enough for me.  Despite the very chubby (I think 60-series?) tyres, the steering and handling was very good.  And the ride certainly streets ahead of the Leaf, IMO, with no float but a similarly immense level of impact absorption.  The overall drive experience was very pleasant - sort of ultra smooth, wafty, comfortable but still quite sporty and enjoyable to drive.  The interior is a bit generic Hyundai-dull, but the central screen is huge, the buttons similarly so, and usability streets ahead of VW's mk8 Golf offerings.  I could definitely happily live with one of these.

Mini Electric:  I loved it.  Oh man, I loved it.  Really fun to drive.  Direct steering with decent feel.  Immense and instant shove in the back, flat handling make it a hoot to drive.  I also loved the quirky and very individual interior.  A lovely place to sit.  Seats were the best of the three, too - supportive and comfy.  But the ride was a bit unrefined in general, and compared to the Leaf and Ioniq, terrible.  Probably similar to my GTI in the DCC's Sport mode.  I could probably happily live with it, though, for the immense fun in return.  But the price.....sigh.  For that money I'd want perfection.  And I'm not sure I can bring myself to shell out ~$30k change over on a second car.

So some thinking to do.  Whether to wait for the 2nd gen EVs to arrive, hoping the price of entry will be lower, and thereby offsetting the lower trade-in on my GTI once this chip and stock shortage is over?

The takeway, and major surprise for me, is that I actually prefer the EV driving experience to my manual GTI.  There is something wonderfully addictive about the smoothness and torquiness (is that a word?).  Stupidly high purchase prices aside here in Aus, I'd have one in a heartbeat.





« Last Edit: 04 November 2021, 07:09 by Splashalot »
1972 Turquoise Superbug S; 1978 Miami Blue Golf GLS; 2007 Mk5 Tornado Red Golf GTI; 2017 Golf 7.5 Trendline Tungsten Silver 1.4ltr 110TSi with DAP; 2018 Tornado Red GTI with DAP.  All MT.  Current: 2021 Mini Cooper SE, British racing green.

Offline fredgroves

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #1 on: 04 November 2021, 09:12 »
Thanks for kicking this off, I think its a useful chat.

Although I've already had my fill of VW software problems, have you not got the ID3 to add to the list?

The prices you quoted for those cars are roughly in line with UK ones. These are the "low end" of the milk float market, most run from about 45kGBP up to some eye watering figures. Also, there aren't a lot of "small" options - I'd guess it was something to do with the physical size of the battery, but it could also be that the likely target buyer wants a land train  :grin:

You didn't talk about range and charging speeds, I assume you don't care about either - probably I don't for the electric run around I intend to buy in 2022. A range of 100 miles and home charging is all I need for now.

The Mini, have you ever driven a modern Mini? I think what you describe about the ride is actually the same as a Mini delivers. I have 2 petrol ones here, one is a Cooper, its firm like my GTI DCC set to sport. The other is a Cooper S and its firm like the springs have been replaced with steel girders. Sticks to the road like glue but jeez...
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline Splashalot

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #2 on: 04 November 2021, 10:14 »
No, I've not driven a modern Mini, Fred.  Last one was a 1972 original!  Driving the EV today the suspension felt very short travel and at time quite abrupt.  With the occasional fore-aft pitch where in the GTI there is none.  But yeah, it was fun, for sure.  Such a charming little thing.

Range is not an issue for me as this would be a second city-only car.  The weekly mileage would probably be around 200kms, maybe a tad more.  We have a garage so night charging is OK.  Also, rooftop solar generating much more than we can use ATM during the day, so it makes sense from that aspect to buy an EV. 

Interesting about the prices, thanks.  I assumed UK prices would be significantly less.

At the moment, heart says Mini, head says Ioniq.

Edit: VW Aus have no plans to introduce the ID3 soon.  From memory, 2025 at the earliest.
« Last Edit: 04 November 2021, 11:08 by Splashalot »
1972 Turquoise Superbug S; 1978 Miami Blue Golf GLS; 2007 Mk5 Tornado Red Golf GTI; 2017 Golf 7.5 Trendline Tungsten Silver 1.4ltr 110TSi with DAP; 2018 Tornado Red GTI with DAP.  All MT.  Current: 2021 Mini Cooper SE, British racing green.

Offline Exonian

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #3 on: 05 November 2021, 06:24 »
Brilliant summaries in the first post Splashalot, that was really interesting reading.
I’m glad you liked the MINI!
Best fun I’ve had in a car since I got loaned a Lupo GTI many years ago.

It still surprises me that the ID.3 isn't headed your way any time soon but I don’t think you’re being short changed in any way as you’ll receive the Cupra Born soon enough.
The ID.3’s biggest annoyance to me was the spongy brakes which unfortunately will be carried over to the Born. Not a desirable feature in a sports hatch.

Like yourself, I love the electric car driving experience (albeit I miss a bit of exhaust noise and some ICE engine character as all EV’s are going to be similar in their power delivery).
I can’t wait to get into an EV but there’s just not one that ticks all my boxes just yet.
The MINI is damn close but not quite there as I want to run an EV as an only car so it does have a few limitations. The limited range is a big worry for me too as down in my neck of the woods the charging infrastructure really isn’t good enough just yet. It’s getting there though.
‘23 8R
Serial white Golf owner


Offline Splashalot

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #4 on: 05 November 2021, 08:30 »
Thanks Exonian!

Well, todays news:  Heart won out over head.  :wink:

Edit: Oh bugger it - I never was much good at teasing!

Both the wife and I went back today to drive the Mini on recommended tyre pressures this time - 36/32, vs over 40/40 the first time (when I found the ride a bit much)

What a difference.  It's certainly no plush experience, but the recommended pressures took the ride's sharp edge right off for us.  Much more settle and planted.  We agreed - yep, we can live with this.  goodyear Eagle runflats, too.

The kicker was the trade in deal on the GTI.  Because the Mini was stock, they gave us ~ $3800 off RRP, so if you add that to the GTI trade in, it's nearly $39k.  On a car which cost me $43k in 2018!  Too good to refuse really, given we both fell head over heels for the Mini's immense charm.  It is such a hoot to drive!

Spec wise, it's the top spec loaded model, so twin sunroofs, Harmon Kardon sound etc.  British Racing Green with black leather interior.  Really glows in the sunlight.

Hopefully picking it up mid next week.  So now to research home wall box chargers....

I think I might stick around here, if that's OK.  Such a great bunch here, and genuinely helpful to boot.
« Last Edit: 05 November 2021, 08:49 by Splashalot »
1972 Turquoise Superbug S; 1978 Miami Blue Golf GLS; 2007 Mk5 Tornado Red Golf GTI; 2017 Golf 7.5 Trendline Tungsten Silver 1.4ltr 110TSi with DAP; 2018 Tornado Red GTI with DAP.  All MT.  Current: 2021 Mini Cooper SE, British racing green.

Offline fredgroves

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #5 on: 05 November 2021, 10:56 »
I think from everything I've seen and read you've probably made the best decision vs what is available right now. You got a great deal too!

The tyre pressure thing.... yeah BMW.... tyre pressures. Crazy. You might find non-RF's also help - they have really stiff sidewalls and used to be the bane of Minis.

Don't forget to post a picture when you get it! There are loads of bits of trim you can get to make it look a bit more individual too - I saw some great front bumper elements on one in the car park the other weeks  - that was BRG too and the owner was telling me how he'd bought them and added it, along with wing mirror covers - really makes it pop.

I think next year I'll be getting one too.
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline Exonian

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #6 on: 05 November 2021, 13:54 »
Fab news Splashalot, I’m very jealous!  :cool:
You’ve made a really good choice there I reckon. You wouldn’t believe how close I was to ordering one after my last test drive (my wife was dead against it, despite her loving the other Mini we have, for some unfathomable reason).

There’s a Scottish guy living in Canada who has done a few interesting “new owners” perspective vids on YouTube that’ll reinforce the feeling that you made a good decision
https://youtu.be/2E0UhYIjYBI
https://youtu.be/_R48sLcwyoE
https://youtu.be/635WKJZFiJk
https://youtu.be/rkOWZfVxUxY

I’d say the Mini SE was a heart AND head decision in reality. Other BEV contenders are more of a wallet or impulse type buy. Although expensive the Mini has an awful lot going for it as a complete product rather than a show stopping tech extravaganza that’s the size of a small house.

Please do stop around here Splashalot  :smiley:
‘23 8R
Serial white Golf owner


Offline Splashalot

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #7 on: 06 November 2021, 05:00 »
Thanks chaps - much appreciated.

I'll post a photo next week.  Will get the front end PPF'd, then probably fit the optional stripes as per this one in the dealership this morning.  I think they suit the BRG paint.



1972 Turquoise Superbug S; 1978 Miami Blue Golf GLS; 2007 Mk5 Tornado Red Golf GTI; 2017 Golf 7.5 Trendline Tungsten Silver 1.4ltr 110TSi with DAP; 2018 Tornado Red GTI with DAP.  All MT.  Current: 2021 Mini Cooper SE, British racing green.

Offline Exonian

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #8 on: 06 November 2021, 05:57 »
A definite yes for the stripes.
‘23 8R
Serial white Golf owner


Offline Splashalot

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Re: To EV or not to EV, that is the question....
« Reply #9 on: 10 November 2021, 03:09 »
See you, old friend.  And thanks for all the fun times.  It's been great:




Well hello there.  Who's a happy boy (and girl), then?





Bonnet stripes are on order.  Will be fitted after Xpel Pro paint protection film on the entire front end.  No stone chips for me.

The drive so far?  Absolutely blown away.  So. Much. Fun.  Ride is inexplicably much better than the test drives.  I assume they've adjusted the pressures down to recommended.  Steering turn in, sharpness and feel is brilliant.  Such a hoot to drive.

I have a Zappi charger on order arriving tomorrow.  Theoretically I should be able to run the Mini off free solar from our rooftop panels.  Will need some grid top up in Winter I expect, but overall it should cost a pittance to run.  So, so happy with it.

Special thanks to Exonian, without whose test drive opinions I probably wouldn't have pursued a Mini EV test drive.
« Last Edit: 10 November 2021, 03:32 by Splashalot »
1972 Turquoise Superbug S; 1978 Miami Blue Golf GLS; 2007 Mk5 Tornado Red Golf GTI; 2017 Golf 7.5 Trendline Tungsten Silver 1.4ltr 110TSi with DAP; 2018 Tornado Red GTI with DAP.  All MT.  Current: 2021 Mini Cooper SE, British racing green.