ESP related question (Phil take a read)

[08micsta]

Hello Guys

As of late the GTi has once again become the family car as fuel prices are just plain horrid and the 4x4 is clocking up too much mileage. Naturally this makes my dad a happy man as he loves the GTi and to be rather honest (This is the odd part) my mom has taken a major liking to our new Opel Corsa Utility Bakkie (Its full house and absolutely stunning) and prefers it over her GTi for trips to the shops etc so the Gti is now redundant in the garage and never used.

My dad and I decided to take the GTi for a blast last weekend whilst discussing school and the odds and soon started discussing my first car etc. As I joke i mentioned that the GTi would be nice  and my dad made the following comment which after numerous internet searches I cant find the answer for.

My dad stated that the reason he is hesitant about letting me drive the GTI (When I do get my license) is because I will abuse it.  And as an example he stated that:

I will come into a corner faster than the car can handle (being overconfident thinking that the computers and ESP etc will rescue me) and will obviously not apply the accelerater in the corner... This means the car will skid out and then there is an accident. HE then continued to state that the ESP only works when you are accelerating and for that reason many people go to fast and because they are not accelerating dont have ESP to help and the car loses traction etc etc.

Is this true?

Or is the ESP working even when decelerating and cornering with no acceleration? Im curious because that would mean that to go faster in a corner you should enter slower and accelerate in the actual corner because the ESP will give you extra traction allowing you to exit quicker?

I did all the license courses on Gran Turismo etc and even looked on the net and many licenses state you should enter quickly, accelerate gently in the corner and exit quickly?

I then read Phils post about his car and figured the following: (This assuming my dads theory is correct)

Phil enters a corner faster than normal and does not accelerate in the corner and when he accelerates on exit the car gets bogged down because it is suddenly having to handle a corner and harsh acceleration? Perhaps thats the reason for his "lack of power" as that is what ESP is meant to do. Change the speed on alternating wheels to correct a spin or slide and allow traction.

He mentioned that he didnt have this on his old GTi. Perhaps the ESP handles the different turbo (KO3 to KO4 in the Ed30 if I am not mistaken) differently and they put the power out in different ways? Maybe there is no delay in the KO3 with the standard GTi and a slightly longer delay in power output or the way the power is transmited in the KO4? Just a thought.

As for MPG...  We get about ten MPG in town with ours and fill her up once a week so stop complaining and this is with my mom driving 

Feel free to discuss.

Mike

[DanGB]

This is not true no. Ive put this into practice myself.

When ive had ESP on during a track session, the ESP has pulled the rear of the car back into line when taking a slippery corner several times. i then turned the ESP off, and took the corner again. This time I spun the car!

I was not accelrating on the corners.

[WhiteGTI]

You can frequently get ESP to kick in through initiating lift-off oversteer - therefore making it come on with no throttle...

[Phil mcavity]

Ive attacted corners at speed onto dual carrageways etc, the car with esp on, power drops off, and car then learches like it feels like i have a flat tyre at the rear. Scared the life outa me more then if id turned it off, id feel like im in control.

[PhilMart]

Slow in fast out is the way I have heard it. Brake wellbefore the corner start accelerating through the corner smoothly. Same with speed humps.. go in normal speed, brake just prior to the speed hump then foot off the brake and coast or even accelerate over.

Every corner has its own peculiarities ie off camber, not a perfect arc etc, but this works for me.

Don't forget you have EBD on your GTI so if the system feels that a wheel is skidding then it will brake on the others slightly until it gains traction again.

In regards to ESPI have always heard it is on to some degree regardless of whether you turn it off .. this may be wrong.

Tell your dad to get it chipped and only let you have it in Valet mode.. that way he gets the benefit of the extra power and still keeps you on the straight and narrow!

[WhiteGTI]

Slow in fast out is the way I have heard it. Brake wellbefore the corner start accelerating through the corner smoothly. 

Yes - as per my previous post, inducing lift off oversteer isn't really the correct and best way to get round a corner (although very good fun), but just to highlight that ESP does indeed work off throttle!

[ub7rm]

I believe old fashioned straight forward traction control (ASR) detects wheelspin and only works by retarding engine power so your dads statement would be correct for that since if you're not accelerating there is no benefit but ESP is ASR, EBD, EDL and heap of other 3 letter acronyms rolled into one that detects more than just wheelspin alone and can selectively apply the brakes where necessary as well as retarding the engine power.

[08micsta]

So my dad is wrong. 

Not that I will be able to drive the Golf anyway 

Exactly what does the GTI have? And what do the acronyms stand for?

I remember doing a track day with BMW a few years ago in which they compared their systems to Nissen 350Z's and BMW was using the Z4.

The guy took you into a corner with ESP and ASC (Automatic stability control) and something else and showed how well the car could handle a few very dramatic swerves, handbrake turns and wet roads. They then showed you the button and told you to switch it off and from there onwards the car was all over the place sliding, veering on the edge and everything.

The 350Z (being rear wheel drive I think) was a lot more dramatic and BMW stated the reason there system was better was because of the ASC and that something else that I cant remember.

I love telling stories.

So what exactly does the golf have? OR what is included in the ESP package?

Mike

[WhiteGTI]

Exactly what does the GTI have? And what do the acronyms stand for?

I noticed the other week that you told a newbie to do a search first when he asked what to look for when purchasing a GTI. Whilst, you are indeed correct - and I even admit there is a sticky in this section telling people what to look out for when purchasing GTI - it probably made that newbie feel quite inadequate and unwelcome (I only say this because it would have made me feel that way,  and I think it's very important to welcome new members into an online community such as this, which sometimes can be pretty daunting)

In light of the above...it would have been rather easy for you to do a search on the VW website to find out the answers to your question? http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-gti/explore/experience/safety/   

At the end of the day, I appreciate that sometimes it's a lot easier to simply ask the question rather than do a bit of searching/research (and you will probably get the answer more quickly), but I just felt that on this occasion you are eating your own words a little ...

[RedRobin]

....The golden rule is ALWAYS slow in and fast out of bends/roundabouts etc. You should do all your braking while the car is still in a straight line (and more stable) before entering the bend and know your point at which to accelerate out.

I too have spun my GTI with ESP off and found myself running backwards until braking. No damage but I am inclined to keep my ESP on and stay within the car's limitations. ESP doesn't stop an incident happening but it can reduce its possibility. I think there's too much macho testosterone involved with drivers saying that you don't need ESP and its package of safeguards.

Fast driving is all about keeping it smooth and stable. Think and read the road ahead.

My 17yo daughter is learning to drive and loving it! But not on my GTI!! I wouldn't let her drive mine before some professional courses in advanced training.