GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Golf mk6 GTD/TDI => Topic started by: Keithuk on 02 February 2011, 13:03
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I guys/gals.
When I first had the car back in January 2010 I noticed if you hold your foot lightly on the clutch pedal it pulsates but it appears slightly less than engine speed, I'm presuming this is the dual mass flywheel.
In March I took it back to the dealer to be checked. They said it was normal on that engine because it has a dual mass flywheel. I wasn't happy so they fitted a new clutch under warranty, it still pulsates.
I went back to the dealers last week over this problem. Do you have a GTD demo available? I went out with the salesman to check it out. If you rest your foot on the clutch it feels normal no pulsating/vibration. We went over to my car and he started up and felt the clutch. Yes it does vibrate but you are better of talking to the service reception as they can advice you better.
I talked to service and they said I would have to book it in so the technician can check it out. I took it back this morning for the check. I was with him when he checked my car. Yes that normal its the dual mass flywheel that does that. Well how come your demo GTD doesn't do it? I don't know it should do. He took it to the workshop to plug in the VAG-COM and no faults were found. The service receptionist said see how it goes and if it gets any worse bring it back and they will investigate some more.
I have a friend at work who has a 2.0 GT (140) and is doesn't do it. We also have a student with a 2.0 TDI (170) and his doesn't do it. I've posted the same question on other VW forums and the odd user (20%) says their pedal pulsates.
Are there any diesel Golf owners on here either 140PS or 170PS its the same engine that their clutch pedal pulsates/vibrates? I really need some replies on this before it goes in for its first service next Tuesday.
Cheers. ;)
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Mine has a throb, only noticed it cause the Mrs was driving as some do with their foot on the clutch pedal :sick:, she said the next day it was pulsing/throbbing so I gave her into trouble for doing it bla bla you know the score, I have checked myself and yes its there when you push down a little. Next time I'm out I'll check on start up and then moving just to see. I honestly thought that was normal for this car. mine is the 140 October 2009. 8500 miles on the clock, first service over 3 months now.
TBH no issues with it. Very interested in what you find out though...
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Ok which model do you drive?
Ok I read down and its as 140.
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Hi Keith
My mk6 140 tdi's also got the 'trembling' clutch feel you describe (when the clutch is very lightly pressed / the slack taken up). It's had it from new and now has 15,000 miles on it.
My last car, a mk3 90 tdi, also had it throughout it's life, but it never needed a new clutch in all it's 210,000 miles so I'm not unduly concerned... :-)
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Thanks guys I'm waiting for The Doc to reply now. :wink:
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Thanks guys I'm waiting for The Doc to reply now. :wink:
He's got DSG though :undecided: so unless he's retrofitted a manual gearbox you might be waiting a while :grin: :grin:
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Go to VW get them to take the entire assembly off, check alignment of everything and make sure it all lines up correctly, could be a culmination of machining tolerances (at their max) creating a vibration, or an alignment issue between the mating surfaces on the fly to clutch pressure plate, or even a spring on the plate becoming loose.
There will be a natural vibration through the pedal just from the way the engine motors at idle but that should be minimal, although slightly noticable I.E. the same way the engine note changes between clutch depressed and clutch engaged - the note of the engine will change as it has more mass to move.
If the vibration becomes more noticable when depressed then it seems to point more to a friction/pressure plate issue than anything on the engine side like the DMF.
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Thanks guys I'm waiting for The Doc to reply now. :wink:
He's got DSG though
Thanks Rhyso I forgot The Doc was DSG
There will be a natural vibration through the pedal just from the way the engine motors at idle but that should be minimal, although slightly noticable I.E. the same way the engine note changes between clutch depressed and clutch engaged - the note of the engine will change as it has more mass to move.
If the vibration becomes more noticable when depressed then it seems to point more to a friction/pressure plate issue than anything on the engine side like the DMF.
No clutch pedals shouldn't vibrate unless there is something wrong with the clutch.
If the engine note changes because the clutch is depressed that means the crankshaft thrusts are worn out.
It disappears after a couple of inches.
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All clutch pedals WILL vibrate to a certain extent. Its an vibration harmonic from the engine which is carried throughout the chassis. The reason an engine tone will change slightly when not in gear and just having the clutch pedal depressed then released is due to the static mass it is then required to move as its loaded slightly.
Anyhow this is beside the point, I gave you an answer that is worth exploring, choose to read or ignore it. :smiley:
Source: I engineer the engines and systems you work on.
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Well every car I've ever driven the clutch pedal has never vibrated thats why I think there is a problem here whether it is the DMF or not. The reason they use the DMF is to reduce tortional vibrate not cause it.
I had a PM of a user that I won't name who said.
My Golf Match 1.9 TDI had the same problem. It is a problem with the dual mass fly wheel. Getting VW to replace the clutch will not fix the problem. I had 2 replaced. They just use refurbished units. Same problem with the second clutch.
The problem was fixed when they replaced the clutch and installed a NEW pressure plate. Though I have been told that VW will not allow this to be done now. Ask your dealer for another clutch and ask if you can pay for a new pressure plate to be installed at the time?
It is rediculous that a company like VW thinks that a pulsating clutch is normal and then refuse to fix the problem. I have told people not to buy VW because of this.
PS I decided to stop posting on the forum when my tread about including GTD in the TDI section title, was locked then deleted. But I though this information may help you.
I said he should have posted that comment in here. If I had known this was a problem I wouldn't have bought one. :wink:
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That is what I was saying. The signs lead to a transmission issue with either the entire clutch assembly or the pressure/flywheel interface.
* Off topic = I know who that PM is off, and when a person has been on a forum for less than a month and starts throwing his toys out of the pram over a simple name and saying that the forum name should be changed because of it, it's a little pathetic. Maybe a PM instead of multiple threads would have got him a clearer idea of the situation.
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Maybe a PM instead of multiple threads would have got him a clearer idea of the situation.
Nah :grin:
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Just checked this out again this morning.
On idle their is a slight vibration when you get to the bite.
Put into gear and let the car do the work (no right pedal power) lift the clutch very slowly no judder at all and a slow but smooth pull away.
Partners son is a BMW Mechanic he also checked it out same test and its 100% ok, what he says is that if you get a judder as you pull away thats a sure sign things are wrong. It should resonate through the pedal to the leg and its some thing you can notice.
The moral to my story is don't let the Mrs drive the car as she rides the clutch all the time..... says thats the way her driving instructor told her :lipsrsealed:
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On idle their is a slight vibration when you get to the bite.
Put into gear and let the car do the work (no right pedal power) lift the clutch very slowly no judder at all and a slow but smooth pull away.
Partners son is a BMW Mechanic he also checked it out same test and its 100% ok, what he says is that if you get a judder as you pull away thats a sure sign things are wrong. It should resonate through the pedal to the leg and its some thing you can notice.
Thanks for your input but no one has mensioned judder flc1962 apart from you. :wink:
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Play on words, if your car is doing as Mine when just slowly pushing down thats ok I'm told, (If I'm wrong will be on to VW as soon as I'm told...) the judder is when its fecked totally me thinks. Think you all knwo what I mean?
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Think you all knwo what I mean?
Sorry I don't know what you mean.
The simple question is if you rest your foot on the clutch pedal can you feel any pulsation/vibration Yes or No?
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Yes
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I had a drive of a GTD today and it had the pulsing pedal vibe. I sat and thought about this and it is probably endemic in diesel engines because of the 'lumpy' torque characteristics of compression ignition at idle, hence the adoption of dual mass flywheels (to increase transmission mass/inertia). At a guess differences from car to car might be down to variations in spring rate of the coil springs in the DMF, viscosity of the grease used in the DMF and perhaps idle speed.
PS. I have to say the GTD was pretty damned good to drive.
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Cheers Mac.
The purpose of the DMF is to reduce torsional vibration not increase it.
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I had a drive of a GTD today and it had the pulsing pedal vibe. I sat and thought about this and it is probably endemic in diesel engines because of the 'lumpy' torque characteristics of compression ignition at idle, hence the adoption of dual mass flywheels (to increase transmission mass/inertia). At a guess differences from car to car might be down to variations in spring rate of the coil springs in the DMF, viscosity of the grease used in the DMF and perhaps idle speed.
PS. I have to say the GTD was pretty damned good to drive.
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Even better with DSG mac7 :smug:
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Cheers Mac.
The purpose of the DMF is to reduce torsional vibration not increase it.
Yes I know - I bet the GTD would be horrid without one. But I didn't say the DMF increased torsional vibration, I said it increases the mass/inertia of the gearbox - and thus lowers the speed at which resonance (vibration) occurs to below idle speed.
How effective it is at reducing it to zero is the question. The springs inside the DMF are what provides the damping, which is why I considered their spring rate and the grease (which will affect the friction coefficient of the springs inside the flywheel and thus the amount of damping).
Even better with DSG mac7 :smug:
No clutch pedal - no vibration. The ultimate engineering solution? :wink:
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Quick question... Did the Mk3 tdi of 1994 have a dual mass flywheel? As I've said already, my old one had the symptoms described but I always assumed the dual mass flywheels were a more recent development. If it didn't, then the theory of the DMF causing the problems might be a dead end... Just a thought.
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I'm not sure DDg I think the Mk4 TDI's did if you Google it.
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MK3's. No.
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I'd say it's normal. I feel the engine vibration through the pedal when pressed slightly and it goes as you depress further. Don't notice it when changing gear though, just when my foot it resting on the clutch when in neutral.
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vw have no idea how to build a quality long lasting car anymore. simple as that. they are dabbling with technology they have no clue about.